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Removing the Cat from 87 GT ? Opinions by robert1234
Started on: 11-20-2016 10:03 PM
Replies: 25 (559 views)
Last post by: theogre on 11-29-2016 11:54 PM
robert1234
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Report this Post11-20-2016 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for robert1234Click Here to Email robert1234Send a Private Message to robert1234Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I remove the catalytic converter will it cause any issues ?

[This message has been edited by robert1234 (edited 11-20-2016).]

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Report this Post11-20-2016 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for viperineClick Here to Email viperineSend a Private Message to viperineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yup. It will cause this entire forum to get into a heated debate about why you shouldn't. Just watch!
In reality, why would you want to remove it? The only legitimate reason to remove it, is if it's clogged or rendered useless by breaking up internally. In which case, a magnaflow replacement is readily affordable and keeps the forum, drivers behind you, police, and inspection garages happy.
FWIW, I own two Fieros, one has the cat, the other doesn't. Previous owner deleted it on my 86 GT, stock cat is still intact on my 87 GT. The only reason I haven't put a cat on the 86, is because it is seeing a 3800SC swap very soon and the exhaust I will need hasn't been sorted out yet.
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robert1234
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Report this Post11-20-2016 11:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for robert1234Click Here to Email robert1234Send a Private Message to robert1234Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Everyone says to remove it .
That's why I'm asking, Because I don't know.
I'd like a better sound, that's what I'm after.

So, everyone says CAT goes and so does the muffler.
I saw one guy had cherry bombs on his, not sure I want that ......

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robert1234
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Report this Post11-20-2016 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for robert1234Click Here to Email robert1234Send a Private Message to robert1234Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

robert1234

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Member since Oct 2015
I don't want an argument, just don't understand why to keep it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puM0H1_Ojok&t=292s

[This message has been edited by robert1234 (edited 11-20-2016).]

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lateFormula
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Report this Post11-20-2016 11:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You don't get a "better" sound. You get the same sound, just louder. Without a functioning cat, your exhaust will smell horrible. I know cause I've been there. I had a cat delete for a while, then came to my senses and made a down pipe with a Magnaflow catalytic converter in it. The exhaust sounds good (it is louder than 95% of the cars on the road) but it does not have that choking non-catalyzed odor.

While you're sourcing YouTube videos, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcFZB4Om-xc
That car has a full exhaust system with a catalytic converter. Unless Borla starts making cat back systems for the Fiero again, nothing is going to sound any better than that. Cherry bomb mufflers sound like cheap sh!t.

[This message has been edited by lateFormula (edited 11-20-2016).]

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Report this Post11-20-2016 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
DON't remove both cat and muffler. You can't run fast enough to escape the noise and everyone else can hear you far further than they can hear a Harley Davidson departing Sturgis. My first Fiero had both removed and my neighbors said they could hear me when I hit the main highway, a mile away.
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Report this Post11-21-2016 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for james9937Send a Private Message to james9937Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I bought my car used and I think it had the cat and muffler removed. When it's in the drive I can feel my garage door vibrate cause it's so loud. My car is the 88 4cyl. It has a loud bark but no bite, especially when it comes to horsepower. But hey 111,500 miles and it's still going like the day I bought it.
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Report this Post11-21-2016 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by robert1234:

Everyone says to remove it ...everyone says CAT goes and so does the muffler.


Who the heck is "everyone"?

All you need to do is to read any thread where CAT REMOVAL is discussed... and you'll soon see that not "everyone" agrees to remove it.

 
quote
Originally posted by robert1234:

I'd like a better sound, that's what I'm after.


Assuming you wish to stick with the 2.8... better than This?

That's a factory original cat and muffler on my '88 Formula. (It also has ported exhaust manifolds and 1.6 roller-tip rockers.)

The point I'm making is that IMO, removing the cat does not enhance the sound of the exhaust at all. As a matter of fact, the idea stinks... literally.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-21-2016).]

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busa_powered
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Report this Post11-21-2016 01:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for busa_poweredClick Here to Email busa_poweredSend a Private Message to busa_poweredEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have no cats or muffler on my LS4 GT, it sounds great

I've had no issues with smells or with the police


https://youtu.be/6MDzcHddcfk
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Report this Post11-21-2016 01:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by busa_powered:

I have no cats or muffler on my LS4 GT, it sounds great

I've had no issues with smells...


Very nice... but comparing that with an old Fiero 2.8 is apples and oranges.
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Report this Post11-21-2016 07:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The only one who can answer this is you,

First you need to decide how loud you want. Not everyone wants loud and you have to decide. You can full commando and take both converter and muffler or you can just do one or the other to adjust the loud.

Second I see you are in TN so I assume the emission are not expected to be a problem anytime soon. But if you are in an area where it could change you may want to consider this.

As for improved performance it is little to nothing. The computer is a closed loop so any gains in air flow are not compensated with more fuel unless you have a chip made. There will be a small gain but mostly more sound.

Also today you can get modern high flow cat that will do the same job with little cut in flow.

Generally any power gains are derived from a clogged converter that only is cutting flow and choking the engine off.

Like a Harley some people like the sound louder some do not. Do you want to attract more attention? Also you will get more people wanting to challenge you in some areas. Like my buddy who had a really good looking Dart Sport. He had it looking like it would run 10's but it only had a 318 2 Barrel. It sounded the part too but did not have the speed to back it up. Just something to consider.

There is no one here but you who can know what is right for you. There is no wrong general answer only one right one for you.

Pontiac did a good job on the exhaust sound here and to me more is not always better but that is my own choice for my car.
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Report this Post11-21-2016 08:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by robert1234:

Everyone says to remove it .
That's why I'm asking, Because I don't know.
I'd like a better sound, that's what I'm after.

So, everyone says CAT goes and so does the muffler.
I saw one guy had cherry bombs on his, not sure I want that ......


Everyone doesn't say to remove it. And most that do say that, have no damn clue what they're talking about. However, the facts are as such:

- it is illegal to delete any emissions equipment, including the cat, regardless of whether you must suffer emissions testing in your locality.
- Removing the cat does absolutely nothing for performance. If it does, then you have other problems, or it was plugged and needed replacing.
- The cat is in no way a "fire hazard" as some would claim. Dried leaves and twigs are a fire hazard. Don't drive off-road and park on top of a dead tree.
- The cat does reduce pollution, even if you can't visibly see a difference. Keep it on for the sake of the rest of the world.
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Report this Post11-21-2016 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Kind of makes me want to take mine off, if only for the sole purpose of pissing some people off.
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Report this Post11-21-2016 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To answer the original question...

Your exhaust will smell bad (may irritate nose and eyes)
Emissions will be bad for everyone (unless you want to kill mice in your garage)
Exhaust note will sound hollow
Exhaust note will be louder low and high speed
Exhaust note will be louder in cabin
You may get pulled over for excessive noise

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 11-21-2016).]

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Report this Post11-21-2016 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ive taken them off of a lot of my cars with no issues at all...I dont have any emissions testing. On one of my older Corvettes all the mufflers were bad, so I took out the front mufflers and both rear mufflers (resonators). All I had was straight pipe and the still good cat. It sounded only slightly louder than it was with all those mufflers, and had a better sound. My V8 car just had short glass packs and sounded fine. I had a Lincoln TC with cats catch all the leaves under the car in the driveway on fire. Luckily I saw it, backed it up and put it out before it damaged the car. They started burning right under the cats.
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robert1234
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Report this Post11-21-2016 08:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for robert1234Click Here to Email robert1234Send a Private Message to robert1234Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks everyone, my decision is to replace the cat and get a better muffler.

Your points are very well taken......I don't want the smell and I do not want it to be too loud.

So, That's what I'll do.

So, can someone suggest a new Cat to get ?
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Report this Post11-21-2016 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Previous owner had deleted the CAT. I put a high flow Magna Flow universal CAT (2" in/out flanges) on to smooth out the exhaust note. The CAT cost about $70, was easy to install and made a nice difference in tone and eliminated highway drone from exhaust compared to the CAT removed. Ours is a 2.8L with stock muffler and headers, with the high flow CAT. I feel our current setup sounds better than the stock cat/muffler combination on our other 2.8L. No difference in performance or mileage noticed.

The Magna Flow universal CATs are small in size which makes working on the back side of the engine easier. Summit has all the sizes available if you don't have the standard sized down pipe.

[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 11-21-2016).]

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robert1234
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Report this Post11-21-2016 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for robert1234Click Here to Email robert1234Send a Private Message to robert1234Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did not mean "everyone" as from the forum.

I'll do the high flow Cat.....best option and get a better muffler
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lateFormula
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Report this Post11-22-2016 09:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is the one I used and I would recommend this as well: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-53004/
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Report this Post11-23-2016 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by robert1234:
So, can someone suggest a new Cat to get ?


I had installed the full Pacesetter exhaust from The Fiero Store on my car a while back, including with the high flow cat it came with at the time (not sure if they still the exhaust with a cat or not). It sounded great.

Another muffler that I have taken a liking to the sound of, is the Spintech mufflers. Plenty of videos on YouTube if you want to get an idea of how they sound compared to stock.
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Report this Post11-29-2016 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most states no longer require tailpipe emissions on cars made before 1995 as most cars built in this era are not driven daily. I have not used a catalytic converter in years and never had a problem with anyone. Those things are a fire hazard , generate excessive heat, are restrictive, cost you horsepower and are expensive. Save money, go with the straight pipe. The only draw back is the strong toxic odor but I see this as a safety feature. If someone crawls up your ass at a stoplight just keep an eye in the rearview mirror and the culprit will be crying from the exhaust fumes. Next light, they stay back.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 11-29-2016).]

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Report this Post11-29-2016 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Most states no longer require tailpipe emissions on cars made before 1995 as most cars built in this era are not driven daily. I have not used a catalytic converter in years and never had a problem with anyone. Those things are a fire hazard , generate excessive heat, are restrictive, cost you horsepower and are expensive. Save money, go with the straight pipe. The only draw back is the strong toxic odor but I see this as a safety feature. If someone crawls up your ass at a stoplight just keep an eye in the rearview mirror and the culprit will be crying from the exhaust fumes. Next light, they stay back.


Requiring tailpipe emissions and requiring any vehicle equipped with emissions equipment from the factory to retain that equipment, are not the same thing.

Whether or not you've personally had a problem, simply because law enforcement doesn't enforce all the laws, is irrelevant to whether it is legal or not. Speeding is illegal, but everyone here still drives 15 MPH over the limit.

Converters are not a fire hazard. Stop repeating this false myth. If they were, my house and everything would have burned down already, from all the dead leaves, and all my cars with cats on them.

Properly functioning cats are not restrictive and do not "cost you valuable horsepower." This is another myth propagated by "gearheads" as a poor excuse for removing them from cars.

Cats are not expensive, and there's only ONE of them on a Fiero anyway. I'm sorry but if you can't afford a $100 to replace a cat, you shouldn't have a car. Tires are more expensive than that. Suspension components are more expensive. Flush and fill the coolant, brakes, clutch, auto trans, will all be almost as expensive as a cat, if not more so. If you can't afford to maintain your car, get rid of it, and let someone who can afford to properly maintain it, enjoy it instead.

If you think spewing toxic gas into the environment is an "advantage" then do it in the privacy of your own garage where it will only affect you. Damaging the world we all have to live in is just outright stupid.
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Report this Post11-29-2016 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Save money, go with the straight pipe. The only draw back is the strong toxic odor but I see this as a safety feature. If someone crawls up your ass at a stoplight just keep an eye in the rearview mirror and the culprit will be crying from the exhaust fumes. Next light, they stay back.


You openly admit that without a cat you're spewing a "strong toxic odor" that'll cause people to be "crying from the fumes"... and yet this is somehow completely acceptable in your opinion? It's totally fine to be dumping this poison into the air we all breathe? That just blows me away.
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Report this Post11-29-2016 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Must admit when the CAT was off our 2.8L the fuel smell really was not overwhelming. I honestly don't think it would water anyone's eyes behind you at a light. Yes when the engine is cold and running rich you get a whiff, though not so bad it will drop you in the driveway. When warm I never really noticed it.

Safety risk, loss of power, have been pretty well been taken care of by the CAT manufacturers and auto companies. I think it was in the 70's the last time I heard of a CAT starting a fire over a pile of leaves. Asked a brother of mine that retired from 32 yrs of fire dept service in a major suburban department and he said he's never seen it happen, lots of other wierd car events but no CAT fires. Probably a pretty rare event or there would be recalls for sure.

Contents of the exhaust fumes, well? Hey the Chinese and many third world countrys don't really worry to much about it. Once you've been to one of those you really appreciate the CATs and other tech we have on our vehicles.
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Report this Post11-29-2016 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Opps

[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 11-30-2016).]

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Report this Post11-29-2016 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
1. Most states no longer require tailpipe emissions on cars made before 1995 as most cars built in this era are not driven daily.
2. I have not used a catalytic converter in years and never had a problem with anyone.
3. Those things are a fire hazard , generate excessive heat, are restrictive, cost you horsepower and are expensive.
4. Save money, go with the straight pipe. The only draw back is the strong toxic odor but I see this as a safety feature. If someone crawls up your ass at a stoplight just keep an eye in the rearview mirror and the culprit will be crying from the exhaust fumes. Next light, they stay back.
1. Wrong. Some states stopped sniffing exhaust for daily use cars. NJ Requires Daily Use cars go thru Inspection but NJ stopped sniffing this year.
"as most cars built in this era are not driven daily." Sorry no. Testing took too much time for State and Private Inspection locations and fewer cars to test every year. State sets Fees/Payout for Private Inspection and Sniffer eats Labor Hours for each inspection.
Looks like PA and NY stopped sniffing too but MD and DE do use sniffer test for normal tags. MD all cars built 1977 and up idle tailpipe test. DE 1968-80 test at idle, 81 and up 2 speed idle test. (No rollers)

3. Most claim are cause by bad cat cause by engine run rich, burning oil, etc. Others are using very old data and don't apply now. Cost is a BS point too. Most states do not need a CA cat and most cost less or same as most mufflers. Example: 2 units <$75 at advanceautoparts.com

2. & 4. is just more BS and the law doesn't apply to you.
Worse... You and others repeatedly claim using Antiqued etc tags to avoid inspection and drive whenever and wherever you want too but most states says no and severely limits driving to shows etc most or all of year and NJ QQ rule is no mods allowed. Hot Rod and others tags may allow mods but limits driving too.
You might have been lucky getting away ignoring state law locally but drive in another city/county or state and you can get unlucky fast when stopped for any reason.
Cars w/ special tags have a big target to start and if a cop ask where you are going and is not a show parade etc then can get a ticket and far worse when cop is done fishing.

Unless the engine has problems... Exhaust won't smell much or at all w/o a cat. CO, CO2, and NOx does not smell but CO can kill you and NOx is a major component of Smog and Acid Rain.
NOx and VOC products, like Gasoline, can break down in sunlight cause ground level Ozone that will eat rubber/plastic and cause breathing problems. (This is why many states w/ inspection looks for bad gas cap etc.)

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