What does a Pontaic Fierro need? A Cadillac Northstar engine is correct. Jared and Lou show you how to fix the common oil sealing problem in NorthStar engines before it finds its new home. 30 Min. | PG
I believe that the greatest challenge to swapping the N* engine into a Fiero is the powertrain management issue with the 4T80e transmission. The swap has been done before but I believe with a stick and an aftermarket ECM. It will be a most interesting program when they do the Fiero swap. Obviously all the TV episodes are pre-recorded so the swap has most likely been finished and on the road. The N* engine is a nice powerplant but with its history of gasket failures , I don't know if it makes the ideal choice. The 300HP is nice to have but other V6 GM high feature engines can give it as well.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I believe that the greatest challenge to swapping the N* engine into a Fiero is the powertrain management issue with the 4T80e transmission. The swap has been done before but I believe with a stick and an aftermarket ECM. It will be a most interesting program when they do the Fiero swap. Obviously all the TV episodes are pre-recorded so the swap has most likely been finished and on the road. The N* engine is a nice powerplant but with its history of gasket failures , I don't know if it makes the ideal choice. The 300HP is nice to have but other V6 GM high feature engines can give it as well.
Guess you didn't watch the show.. The gasket failure is covered, and they show the fix... it is a known issue that is simple to fix for ever.. The trans control.. and for that matter the engine control,, might be better off leaving the G.m. system in the parts pyle.. They also hinted at the reason for the N* it is cheap.. one thing the high feature g.m. v6's are not.. and not fer nothing, the v8 rumble is something you can't get in a v6.. The aftermarket that feeds the caddy 426/472/500 crowd is moving into this power plant.. so if history is a guide the future is bright for the N* as a cheap all alum high strung v8 .. something even the ls can't claim.. as the all alum ones are far from cheap..
Originally posted by E.Furgal: something even the ls can't claim.. as the all alum ones are far from cheap..
Bit of an odd statement really. The N* is cheap because nobody wants them. The LS is more expensive because everyone wants them (but they can be had cheap). The N* is also still quite heavy, despite being aluminum, as it's DOHC. How much do you think it would cost to get the same performance and reliability out of a N*, that one gets from even the cheap LSx engines? Heck, even the iron truck engines will be about the same weight as a N*, if not lighter, and an make way more power. Granted, the cost to drop one in a Fiero is by no means cheap, but I don't see any aftermarket being built around the N*, just the same as there isn't really any around the Caddy High Technology (4.1/4.5/4.9) V8s.
Originally posted by E.Furgal: if history is a guide the future is bright for the N* as a cheap all alum high strung v8 .. something even the ls can't claim.. as the all alum ones are far from cheap..
On the show, their definition of cheap for their junk yard N* was $1000 to $1500. The show didn't comment if that was just for the engine, or the complete drop out with engine, transmission, harness, and all accessories. LS4 is the bastard step-child of the LS family, but they are all 5.3L, all aluminum, and nearly all the LS go fast parts work on it too.
I have purchased 3 LS4 complete drop outs with everything ranging from 18K miles to 100+K miles and haven't paid more than $1000 for any of them.
Mine has 382 whp at a lofty 6800 rpm and nearly 80% of the 335 rwtq peak is available from 2000 to 7000 rpm. Cheap, high strung, aluminum v8 it is!
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-04-2016).]
Bit of an odd statement really. The N* is cheap because nobody wants them. The LS is more expensive because everyone wants them (but they can be had cheap). The N* is also still quite heavy, despite being aluminum, as it's DOHC. How much do you think it would cost to get the same performance and reliability out of a N*, that one gets from even the cheap LSx engines? Heck, even the iron truck engines will be about the same weight as a N*, if not lighter, and an make way more power. Granted, the cost to drop one in a Fiero is by no means cheap, but I don't see any aftermarket being built around the N*, just the same as there isn't really any around the Caddy High Technology (4.1/4.5/4.9) V8s.
find me any under 100k 6.0 or 6.2 all alum ls for under 2500.00 that is not warm to hot..
Originally posted by E.Furgal: find me any under 100k 6.0 or 6.2 all alum ls for under 2500.00 that is not warm to hot..
I paid $1200 total including shipping for my LS4 with only 10K miles.
I could certainly find an LS1, LS6, or LS2 for under $2500 easy enough if I cared to do so. The LS6 and LS2 are already starting a full 100+ HP more than the N* too. You'd be hard pressed to find a newer N* that already has all the head bolt and oil issues fixed with less than 100K for anywhere near that price too. And the LSx will still be cheaper to mod, and will be lighter.
Guess you didn't watch the show.. The gasket failure is covered, and they show the fix... it is a known issue that is simple to fix for ever.. The trans control.. and for that matter the engine control,, might be better off leaving the G.m. system in the parts pyle.. They also hinted at the reason for the N* it is cheap.. one thing the high feature g.m. v6's are not.. and not fer nothing, the v8 rumble is something you can't get in a v6.. The aftermarket that feeds the caddy 426/472/500 crowd is moving into this power plant.. so if history is a guide the future is bright for the N* as a cheap all alum high strung v8 .. something even the ls can't claim.. as the all alum ones are far from cheap..
I did watch the show and the head gasket fix is not that easy. It requires a major tear down. The big point is to use an engine that doesn't have a history of gasket problems so you won't have to tear things down to fix them. The swap is enough work. Do we need more work?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I paid $1200 total including shipping for my LS4 with only 10K miles.
I could certainly find an LS1, LS6, or LS2 for under $2500 easy enough if I cared to do so. The LS6 and LS2 are already starting a full 100+ HP more than the N* too. You'd be hard pressed to find a newer N* that already has all the head bolt and oil issues fixed with less than 100K for anywhere near that price too. And the LSx will still be cheaper to mod, and will be lighter.
I've been looking for a few years.. for a 6.2 for my SS.. never are they under 3k and that is if they split the engine/trans.. The yard that has one low miles 25k 6.2 6 spd 5500.oo 6k if you want the harness and ecu etc.
I've been looking for a few years.. for a 6.2 for my SS.. never are they under 3k and that is if they split the engine/trans.. The yard that has one low miles 25k 6.2 6 spd 5500.oo 6k if you want the harness and ecu etc.
Probly regional prices, but I don't know where Dobey is located.
Originally posted by 2.5: Probly regional prices, but I don't know where Dobey is located.
I don't limit my searching to local yards.
But the point was that "aluminum" is irrelevant for the most part in the front engine rwd cars, unless one is really trying to build an ultralight race car, especially when comparing to a Northstar. The iron LSx truck motors are mind numbingly cheap to get, and are lighter than the Northstar, and already make more power from the start.
Originally posted by E.Furgal: I've been looking for a few years.. for a 6.2 for my SS.. never are they under 3k and that is if they split the engine/trans.. The yard that has one low miles 25k 6.2 6 spd 5500.oo 6k if you want the harness and ecu etc.
So because you can't find an LS3 for under $3K, the Northstar is somehow a better option? If it's so important to have a 6.2, how would getting a 4.6l DOHC solve that problem? How much do you think it would cost to turn the Northstar into a 6.2l engine? More than $3K I bet.
And if 4.6l is acceptable, get a 4.8l truck motor. They are super cheap, weigh less than the Northstar, and can easily make much more power and rev to 7000 RPM. Yes, aluminum engines are more expensive. But my point was that the aftermarket crowd is not going to move to the Northstar. Maybe you think an all aluminum V8 is important, but everyone else in the world swapping modern engines into old cars is already doing truck motors because they are cheap and easily make lots of power. There's no reason to expect there will somehow be a bigger aftermarket for the Northstar in the future; especially as the world moves further away from fossil fuels.
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I did watch the show and the head gasket fix is not that easy. It requires a major tear down. The big point is to use an engine that doesn't have a history of gasket problems so you won't have to tear things down to fix them. The swap is enough work. Do we need more work?
Well, I don't know about you, but I'd rather find and fix problems before putting an engine in, rather than having blind faith on the condition of it. Better to do it now, and know things are good, than to wait until things break going down the road. Besides, it's a good time to do all the performance mods/upgrades before you put the engine in, rather than taking it back out and doing that rebuild later on.
So because you can't find an LS3 for under $3K, the Northstar is somehow a better option? If it's so important to have a 6.2, how would getting a 4.6l DOHC solve that problem? How much do you think it would cost to turn the Northstar into a 6.2l engine? More than $3K I bet.
And if 4.6l is acceptable, get a 4.8l truck motor. They are super cheap, weigh less than the Northstar, and can easily make much more power and rev to 7000 RPM. Yes, aluminum engines are more expensive. But my point was that the aftermarket crowd is not going to move to the Northstar. Maybe you think an all aluminum V8 is important, but everyone else in the world swapping modern engines into old cars is already doing truck motors because they are cheap and easily make lots of power. There's no reason to expect there will somehow be a bigger aftermarket for the Northstar in the future; especially as the world moves further away from fossil fuels.
no, the ls is for my 86 SS my Fiero is an INDY I'd like to put an baby N* in it.. or an N* or a superduty.. Last thing I want in this one is a belly button LS.. We'll see. Ithought the n* lower end is overbuilt.. so you can make up the lack of head flow with shoving the air down it's throat
