other than some limited model vette and the GNX that was big money from before the day they rolled into showrooms..
The areo coupe SS first year was 200 ish built, and it still hasn't really taken off, nor the Pontiac 2+2, the 3rd gen t/a hamburger built (SLP) firehawks, the 89 turbo t/a Ford SVO , or t bird super coupe..
80's cars have a problem, the cars after them handle better, are faster, and are still real cheap..
the 79-81 t/a only a few years ago was a 10k car, now they are going up.. the mid to late 80's cars have another 10 years or so.. as there is still to many muscle cars, avail. that are a sure bet, plus no one makes parts for the 80's vehicles.. try to get parts for a CCC q jet that will work with ethanol mix fuel.. or interior parts..etc.. I know It's a fiero forum, but to the hipo buyer looking for an 80's car, 2 seater, you can get a 84-87 vetter for 3-4 grand that is clean , drop a junkyard ls in it, and have 10 times the car as a fiero.. and have less in it than most do that do the 3800 s/c swap.. I like mine, but I know a bone stock c4 vette will out handle it, after dumping $$$ in the underpinning of the fiero..
Agree with all that you have said but one statement. I do not believe that most 80's era cars will ever become true classics or go up in value much. The cars of the 80's were just not good performers. If you are asking good money for your Fiero first look at the prices that mid 80's Vettes are bringing. On a comparative basis you get more car for about the same money.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: If you are asking good money for your Fiero first look at the prices that mid 80's Vettes are bringing. On a comparative basis you get more car for about the same money.
Then I'd be driving the 3rd Corvette on just my block alone instead of 1 of perhaps 3 Fieros I've ever seen in this city. "More car" is subjective. If potential for pure performance is your goal, then yeah, Vette. If I get "more" out of my car by having something uncommon that you don't see dozens of at every car show then I find great value in my Fiero, and luckily they're not valuable so I can have one with a small budget for toys.
The real title of this thread should be why do people expect Fiero's to be worth that much?
As for the 80's cars there will be a good selection of cars of value. Most of the mid sized GM cars will gain in value with the Monte SS and GN leading the way. The ability to drop a LS in them as well as the 3rd gen F bodys will provide much for future performance builders.
The Mustangs will remain popular as they always have been.
The odd Chrysler Shelby will find a place in collectors hearts.
The Pontiac 2+2 may have been unloved then but may lead to be the Superbird of the 80's.
The fact is the 80's while may seem like a long time ago a long they really are not and even some of the cars from the 60's did not gain value till they reached 35 years and older.
You just have to give things their time to find their place as the 80's cars are not all that old yet. Also if you look a the values of most of these cars in prime considiton the Fiero is right with them. If they are trashed out like many standard Fiero's or low optioned like a standard Monte vs an SS there is a drop in value too.
You just have to be realistic here.
Also like I pointed out unlike the 60's there were few what I would term rare cars in the 80's, The numbers were pretty large even on the limited edition cars. There are no one of 6 Trans Am convertibles out of just over 600 Trans Ams built like in 69.
The Syclone and GN in original condition will bring good money moving on. They may be the Hemi cars of the 80's.
They said the 70's cars post 70-71 would be worthless. Many are but there are also some real treasures there. The 455 SD TA, Any HO Pontiac. The Hurst Olds models. The 10th anniversary TA is not commanding mega prices. Any TA that looks like the Bandit is going to always hold much value. The Little Red Express from Dodge has a good future.
Expectations need to be tempered with time and common sense.
Like I have said the low mile and clean v6 cars will hold good demand in the future. Un restored models will hold a premium. Good options like T tops and rare aftermarket things that are original like the many parts offered will hold value as some of the performance parts for the old Flat Heads and Model T's do today.
As with any car modified cars will depend on how they were done and documented. Some will hold much interest and some will scare many off.
A good example of a sports car is the Sunbeam. If you got it in the Tiger form it hold much interest and value with collectors in and outside the Sunbeam groups. The Alpine that is the same damn car just wit a 4 cylinder holds much less value and interst but it has a solid group of fans that like it because they can afford it.
Folks we do not own a rare car. You may not see them but there are still a lot of them around and if you really want one you can find a clean low mile model with little difficulty. Demand is good considering the limiting nature of a 2 seat car. Lets face it not everyone wants or can live with a 2 seat car. Even now if we go to a cruise in we take two cars.
The Fiero has a tough history from hero to zero back to gaining back it's interest and reputation. I know it well as I have been a original owner through it all.
There will always be more popular and valuable cars than a Fiero but on the other hand we will never suffer the fate of most cars from the 80's like an Omni or Cavalier, Sunbird etc that will never see much value and today there are so few left they really are hard to find even in poor condition let alone good.
I just saw a Turbo Sunbird sedan the other day. Rare even in the 80's it was like new condition. Yet a car like that would hold so little value as so few are wanting one. Even the rarity and i mean true rarity will not help it.
In the end the Fiero will never be a Ferrari and if you have half a wit you already know that. But with that said you will still see much more appreciation than about 90% of the cars of the same era.
It could be much worse. The 1984 Corvettes are so cheap now and they are about as popular as a 1975 Vette. The quality issues, crossfire injection and other things even lead the Corvette faithful to other models at just slightly higher prices. We found and help my buddy buy low mile 84 never in the rain for next to nothing. The guy gave it away for much less than many clean 88 GTs sell for.
So again if you are lost on the value being low just ask then why should it be so high and you may find your answer.
Hell I even has a neighbor sell a 93 Camaro Z/28 with about every SLP part installed running 11's with 17K miles. He had a hard time just getting $9K out of it and it was spotless. He even kept all the original parts to put it back to stock including the exhaust and original wheels and tires. He found most people are wanting the 5th gens and had a hard time selling it. Also the 4th gens are a dime a dozen.
& just to add a little side note, I don't care what they are worth (& actually don't understand the desire for value). There isn't' a dollar amount that I can place on my experience with the car. So for it to hold value doesn't mean anything, as I don't have an intention to sell it. The entire journey has never been an investment for me. Of course, I can only speak for myself.
Agree with all that you have said but one statement. I do not believe that most 80's era cars will ever become true classics or go up in value much. The cars of the 80's were just not good performers. If you are asking good money for your Fiero first look at the prices that mid 80's Vettes are bringing. On a comparative basis you get more car for about the same money.
The 80's cars will become true classic's but not the crazy money the 64-72 cars bring.. as those of a generation that wanted them when they were new and where in high school will want them.. The problem the Fiero has is there was a very small group that wanted one then, nevermind 30-40 years later.. Many in that boat, go by a new 2 seater... that is about the same size.. With a masda badge on the nose..
& just to add a little side note, I don't care what they are worth (& actually don't understand the desire for value). There isn't' a dollar amount that I can place on my experience with the car. So for it to hold value doesn't mean anything, as I don't have an intention to sell it. The entire journey has never been an investment for me. Of course, I can only speak for myself.
TRUE... but there is a BUT..... Many into owning an older vehicle, might only want it for a few years and then get a new to them older vehicle.. not everyone sticks with the same car.. so they want to look at value,,as will as demand, so when it's time to move on, they will be able to.. Many, also like to know there is going to be part avail for their model of choice, problem with a car with little value is no one makes parts.. The guys with the 88 model year are finding that out now.. the 84-87 are not all that better off.. One has to remember, not everyone that wants to relive their youth with a car they had or wanted, is a mechanicly inclined person.. They want to drive it, and have it repaired when needed and serviced when needed, not need an upper ball joint and have to spend two weeks looking for one.. I think low mile cars are a waste, as they were never enjoyed as a VEHICLE!!.. as that require putting miles on it.. But many do clamor for them.. over the high mile one that is just as clean..
Only reason the muscle cars gained value so fast was the later 70 on, emissions and the testing, that later cars had to pass in many areas.. Then in the 80's they added a black box, the computer, and many wanted no part of that.. so demand for cars that you could tinker with without fear of a computer or much in the way of emissions defaulted to the earlier cars, well they made parts for the muscle cars but not the 73 up.. so one floundered and one kept going.. Ever look under the hood of an 80's v8 with a carb.. I know there is a 305 v8 under all that mess in my 86SS somewhere.. Mine is stock for one reason, when I bought it, you could not swap a 350 in it and it pass emissions.. I added true duals with dual converters and had to fight tooth and nail over that.. now it's old enough to do as I please, at the moment.. but the EPA has hinted that they may go back to requiring all the oem emission equipment to be on and working to pass emissions again.. THIS AND THIS ALONE, is a big problem for the 80's vehicles.. as to build one only to not be able to use it, isn't a good feeling, and The EPA and greenies can't just move on.. The pre 73 cars will always be a bigger draw, as anyone with basic mechanical skill can work on them.. How many here can retune/map a 80's ecu?? how many here can re map the 3800s/c ecu?? the number is small.. and that is a problem when looking at aging vehicles.. as at some point the small vendors that did the work stop.. now what.. you have a 3800s/c swapped fiero and the ecu just took a dump and need another retuned/mapped but no one is doing it.. now you have a garage paper weight.. Anyone that can turn a wrench can fix a distributor and carb.. And those today that are masters at the black box tuning have moved past the vey limited 80's tech.. so there will be many that can do wonders with the later reflash able factory stuff and almost no one that will have the info and tools to do anything with the 80's -late 90's stuff..
And why if I swap to a 3800s/c it will have a non factory engine management..
Well the cars from the 60's were seen as cars that no one wanted for several decades. That is why I used to buy clean examples for $2500.
As for technology it used to be seen that way but a little education and the web have dispelled that much of it is impossible to work with. The LS is the new engine that every hot rodder wants in his street rod as they are so easy to set up and make more power than most engines that were built in the 60's on pump gas.
To be honest if you take the computer away from a 3800 SC you are only inviting more difficulty in making it and run correctly with the power it could provide. Never underestimate the abilities of a knock sensor or fuel injection.
These systems are not hard to work with if you just do a little education of yourself.
Hell I took a 2.0 Eco and added 60 HP to it with only a computer flash and two map sensors. Try to do that to a Big Block and never crack a bolt.
Generally what drives prices are as some said people getting older and being able to buy the cars of their youth they could not have bought when they were young. If you look most get to that age 30-35 years after the fact that put them near or at 50 years old.
In my case I had a decent job and did not get married right away like some so I bought my dream car young and still own it today, Others were not as lucky and have to do that once they make the last collage tuition payment.
That is my plan too as I still have the Fiero and I plan to buy a Corvette once my son is out of school. Yes I will keep the Fiero too.
Well the cars from the 60's were seen as cars that no one wanted for several decades. That is why I used to buy clean examples for $2500.
As for technology it used to be seen that way but a little education and the web have dispelled that much of it is impossible to work with. The LS is the new engine that every hot rodder wants in his street rod as they are so easy to set up and make more power than most engines that were built in the 60's on pump gas.
To be honest if you take the computer away from a 3800 SC you are only inviting more difficulty in making it and run correctly with the power it could provide. Never underestimate the abilities of a knock sensor or fuel injection.
These systems are not hard to work with if you just do a little education of yourself.
Hell I took a 2.0 Eco and added 60 HP to it with only a computer flash and two map sensors. Try to do that to a Big Block and never crack a bolt.
Generally what drives prices are as some said people getting older and being able to buy the cars of their youth they could not have bought when they were young. If you look most get to that age 30-35 years after the fact that put them near or at 50 years old.
In my case I had a decent job and did not get married right away like some so I bought my dream car young and still own it today, Others were not as lucky and have to do that once they make the last collage tuition payment.
That is my plan too as I still have the Fiero and I plan to buy a Corvette once my son is out of school. Yes I will keep the Fiero too.
They are easy to work on, upgrade, reflash because there is a supporting aftermarket for them.. if there wasn't the tools and support, you'd not be going on the web to learn how to rework them..
That was my point.. The 60-70 cars.. always had a draw.. all the way back to the early 80's as they didn't require emission controls.. or testing.. sure the basic chevelle was 2500.oo or less. but the big block SS wasn't.. not if it was clean.. same with a gto/etc.. no they didn't get 20-70k+ for them like now.. but you didn't get a low miles 389 trip 4 spd gto for 2500.00 either.. I live in an area that emission testing made the choice of vehicle huge... My 1982 t/a in 1997 with all the mods would pass 1997 emissions, and it added a good 6 grand to do so,, only to be told, it will not pass the emissions test.. because I didn't have the air pump and tubes in the exhaust manifolds/headers.. and an open air cleaner, with heat stove.. among other things.. It didn't need them, it had EFI and was way cleaner than the 1982 standards.. but sorry.. no inspection sticker for you.. so, I got a 71 chevelle and dumped the drivetrain in it.. This is why the 73 up cars floundered for the most part.. a 1977 cutlass is 10 times the car the 71 was/is but lack of legally upping the power,, and when you could the added cost to those parts to be 50 state legal.. pushed people to the older cars..
The fiero has another issue.. it is hard to get in and out of for many older folks that might want one but can't live with one. My Indy as far as I know isn't lowered but some days it is a royal pain to get out of.. lowered and chop top.. eck...
The fiero has a few vendors but if you noticed, they haven't added to the avail parts?? and those that do, don't sell many and it's one run and done..
I got my fiero not because I wanted a fiero.. I wanted a 4 cyl car , not front drive and cheap.. If a 75-80 Pontiac sunbird or clone was on ebay or craigs list at the same time I was looking, I'd have that.. I got the Indy as it was clean and kinda local.. it was at some point hit on highway as the front and rear show damage that wasn't fixed correctly, but as good as a vehicle of this worth would see and not get junked.. If I was looking for a sports car this would not be it, and after owning this one.. My opinion has not changed.. the nose is to light.. in the rain it skates the nose and doesn't have the nadds to bring the rear around with your foot.. my 85 t/a nose would skate but you could still turn with your foot.. If it wasn't an Indy.. I think I'd have changed allot to make it better, less understear and more throttle overstear . I may do it down the line.. but then the reason I bought it goes out the window.. as I bought it as a half way decent mpg daily.. If I didn't have a big block c-10 and the 86 SS .. it most likely get a new g.m. turbo 4 drivetrain stuffed in the rear..
They are easy to work on, upgrade, reflash because there is a supporting aftermarket for them.. if there wasn't the tools and support, you'd not be going on the web to learn how to rework them..
That was my point.. The 60-70 cars.. always had a draw.. all the way back to the early 80's as they didn't require emission controls.. or testing.. sure the basic chevelle was 2500.oo or less. but the big block SS wasn't.. not if it was clean.. same with a gto/etc.. no they didn't get 20-70k+ for them like now.. but you didn't get a low miles 389 trip 4 spd gto for 2500.00 either.. I live in an area that emission testing made the choice of vehicle huge... My 1982 t/a in 1997 with all the mods would pass 1997 emissions, and it added a good 6 grand to do so,, only to be told, it will not pass the emissions test.. because I didn't have the air pump and tubes in the exhaust manifolds/headers.. and an open air cleaner, with heat stove.. among other things.. It didn't need them, it had EFI and was way cleaner than the 1982 standards.. but sorry.. no inspection sticker for you.. so, I got a 71 chevelle and dumped the drivetrain in it.. This is why the 73 up cars floundered for the most part.. a 1977 cutlass is 10 times the car the 71 was/is but lack of legally upping the power,, and when you could the added cost to those parts to be 50 state legal.. pushed people to the older cars..
The fiero has another issue.. it is hard to get in and out of for many older folks that might want one but can't live with one. My Indy as far as I know isn't lowered but some days it is a royal pain to get out of.. lowered and chop top.. eck...
The fiero has a few vendors but if you noticed, they haven't added to the avail parts?? and those that do, don't sell many and it's one run and done..
I got my fiero not because I wanted a fiero.. I wanted a 4 cyl car , not front drive and cheap.. If a 75-80 Pontiac sunbird or clone was on ebay or craigs list at the same time I was looking, I'd have that.. I got the Indy as it was clean and kinda local.. it was at some point hit on highway as the front and rear show damage that wasn't fixed correctly, but as good as a vehicle of this worth would see and not get junked.. If I was looking for a sports car this would not be it, and after owning this one.. My opinion has not changed.. the nose is to light.. in the rain it skates the nose and doesn't have the nadds to bring the rear around with your foot.. my 85 t/a nose would skate but you could still turn with your foot.. If it wasn't an Indy.. I think I'd have changed allot to make it better, less understear and more throttle overstear . I may do it down the line.. but then the reason I bought it goes out the window.. as I bought it as a half way decent mpg daily.. If I didn't have a big block c-10 and the 86 SS .. it most likely get a new g.m. turbo 4 drivetrain stuffed in the rear..
Just to clarify
My 68 SS was clean and would be a $25,000 car today with 4 speed. I paid $2,000 and it needed little to no work before my first car show where I took 3rd place.
My 70 Monte Carlo was a clean Alabama car well cared for with low mile as was the Chevelle $2500
My GMC Sprint SP 1972 with a 402 BBC with 60K miles from Tennessee was $2500
My buddies various GTO and 428 GP were all under $2500. Note his 1964 numbers matching South Carolina Trip Power 4 speed was original right down to the pain with 50K miles was the most expensive at $2800.
While the cars of the 60's were popular they were because they were cheap. You could buy some really nice cars for next to nothing then. Many of us did and Unfortunately I did not hang on to them like some of my friend did.
Hell out ride to school was often varied. A 63 GP with a Ram Air IV. A Ford F 250 with a 428 Cobra Jet. A Jag sedan with a 428 HO Pontiac a 58 Chevy coupe and a host of other models including a Tempest convertible and others. .
There was also a host of Firebird and Trans Am models in there too. Yes the good ones like a 67 400 and even a 72 Formula 400 4 speed with a functioning ram air hood that was all factory.
Todays cars are not that hard to work on if you know what to do and the tools are not that expensive and even if you do need to do some real tuning we now have so many Dyno Tune shops that can do it for a very reasonable price anymore.
Create engines from GM of all nature of power and size are available with full warranties at prices less than buying an old Big Block and then rebuilding it.
To be honest we are in the golden era now of technology and restoration parts.
Note back in the 80's it was a hunt of NOS parts as few were made at the time for the older cars. Junk yards were often the only place to find them like the cars of the 80's today, The reality is the 80's are not all that old and their time is yet to come.
Even parts were cheap. I got a fully rebuilt Tri Power with air cleaners and mechanical linkage for $95 in the late 80's. I even had one customer where I worked gave me a set of Tri Power air cleaners for free with the flame restorers. The fact was they were cheap as they were not that much in demand like they are today.
The Fiero and select 80's cars will see gains in the future but only for specific models and options for the real money and the rest will be conservative gains. It is no different than what we saw in the 80's. There are many 60's cars not worth a ton but still have showed modest gains while others have show bigger gains for the right options and models.
Until the 70's models are depleted there will be no gains in the 80's for a while longer. The TA and some other cars like the Can Am and others are showing good gains now just look to Barrett Jackson on the Trans Am sales of late. Even the smog-ed models are crazy money now in prime original condition.
Cars like the Firehawk, and SLP SS, Saleen and Calaway will become the Shelbys of the future. It is very early in the game as these cars are like the Shelbys of 60's where you could still buy them cheap in the 80's. Hell I had a Shelby 500 Convertible and Cobra competition in average middle class neighbor hood. The 500 would be found at the grocery store when the guys wife drove it there. In the same lot a 69 TA also could be found as a kid that worked there owned it.
Then you also have to factor in the economy here too. If it tanks all these cars could be rendered worthless very fast, A time may come a loaf of bread could be of more value. It has happened before and could happen again.
In other words stop worrying about value and just enjoy the ride.
Then I'd be driving the 3rd Corvette on just my block alone instead of 1 of perhaps 3 Fieros I've ever seen in this city. "More car" is subjective. If potential for pure performance is your goal, then yeah, Vette. If I get "more" out of my car by having something uncommon that you don't see dozens of at every car show then I find great value in my Fiero, and luckily they're not valuable so I can have one with a small budget for toys.
Love of Fieros or why you own them, doesn't influence the market resale value. Whether you like them or not; we are talking monetary value in this post, why Fieros are not worth much and why they do not easily sell. Its also my hobby car of choice and I like them, but I already know that its worth less than half of what I put into it.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by hyperv6: ... To be honest we are in the golden era now of technology and restoration parts.
Then you also have to factor in the economy here too. If it tanks all these cars could be rendered worthless very fast, A time may come a loaf of bread could be of more value. It has happened before and could happen again.
In other words stop worrying about value and just enjoy the ride.
I agree about the "golden era of technology". When have we ever been able to go to a dealership and buy a 700+ HP Challenger with a warranty? Or a 526 HP Mustang Shelby GT350? (I had the opportunity to take a couple of laps with one of those, a couple weekends ago. Just an amazing car. At the same event, it ran away and hid from a real 65 Shelby GT350 race car.) They cost around $60K, but what did the old L88 and ZL1 cars cost, after taking inflation into account? Think about it. What did the 65 GT 350 race car cost to build?
With that observation out of the way... I have never had trouble buying parts. Even for my 88 Fiero(s). There are still enough spares and parts cars around, that I can usually find whatever I need, if I don't need it yesterday. The front hubs seem to be the real issue. Isn't Rodney producing those? (The new ones... with roller bearings.)
Value? It still comes down to what you (or a buyer) want, and what you (or a buyer) are willing to spend. Seriously... The only reason I give a crap about Fiero values is for my insurance. I want to be able to recoup my investment if someone effs up and hits me. If I break it myself, I'm willing to live with it. Then again... I may have a different outlook if I ever decide to sell a Fiero and go in a different direction, but it hasn't happened yet.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-27-2016).]
I agree about the "golden era of technology". When have we ever been able to go to a dealership and buy a 700+ HP Challenger with a warranty? Or a 526 HP Mustang Shelby GT350? (I had the opportunity to take a couple of laps with one of those, a couple weekends ago. Just an amazing car. At the same event, it ran away and hid from a real 65 Shelby GT350 race car.) They cost around $60K, but what did the old L88 and ZL1 cars cost, after taking inflation into account? Think about it. What did the 65 GT 350 race car cost to build?
With that observation out of the way... I have never had trouble buying parts. Even for my 88 Fiero(s). There are still enough spares and parts cars around, that I can usually find whatever I need, if I don't need it yesterday. The front hubs seem to be the real issue. Isn't Rodney producing those? (The new ones... with roller bearings.)
Value? It still comes down to what you (or a buyer) want, and what you (or a buyer) are willing to spend. Seriously... The only reason I give a crap about Fiero values is for my insurance. I want to be able to recoup my investment if someone effs up and hits me. If I break it myself, I'm willing to live with it. Then again... I may have a different outlook if I ever decide to sell a Fiero and go in a different direction, but it hasn't happened yet.
As for golden age if you have not taken part in it you may want to as while we have overcome it in the past it will become more difficult in the future. You will have performance but with Hybrid and electric power and no sound of a screaming V8 to be found. The regulations are of a nature that this time they have made it so the V8 will not escape accept in the most expensive of cars.
As for parts the mechanical are so general they are easy to get. It is the model specific parts mostly trim that are difficult. Door panels window lifts etc. My buddy has a original 455 Cutlass convertible that is not a 442 or hurst. He needs a rear window lift but there is no repo and even a used one is damn impossible to find. The 80's cars plastic on the interior and cheap interiors are not holding up and new parts for many are difficult to find in any condition let alone NOS.
That is why i always tell people looking at Fiero's if you want a stock interior look for a car with a good interior. Just the dash alone is impossible to find in good condition with the corners still on it.
The price of the Fiero will vary with model and demand. Not all Fieros will see much growth while others will see much. Just as a 6 cylinder Firebird is worth little but a Ram Air is worth much.
