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Cold air intake cone filter placement by 2.5
Started on: 06-30-2016 04:27 PM
Replies: 33 (841 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 07-06-2016 12:00 PM
2.5
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Report this Post06-30-2016 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When people install a cone filter in this location, even with the wheel well liner back on there is a large opening to the ground...is there any concern for dirt or dust from the road being kicked up and dirtying the filter rather quickly?

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Report this Post06-30-2016 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found mine gets dirty very quickly. I'd say need to clean every 4-5,000 miles for sure, probably less.
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Report this Post06-30-2016 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DJvonRappClick Here to Email DJvonRappSend a Private Message to DJvonRappEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I covered the large bottom hole in mine with some kind of a rubber mat, cut to size/shape. Seems to help a lot, but it's not air tight by any means. No pictures unfortunately.
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Report this Post06-30-2016 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DJvonRapp:

I covered the large bottom hole in mine with some kind of a rubber mat, cut to size/shape. Seems to help a lot...


Yeah, the less air being supplied from below (and the more air being supplied from the side vent), the better.
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Report this Post07-02-2016 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DJvonRapp:

I covered the large bottom hole in mine with some kind of a rubber mat, cut to size/shape. Seems to help a lot, but it's not air tight by any means.


I did the same. It's a lot less dirt getting kicked up into the filter.



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Report this Post07-03-2016 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Fierosound, where did you get the cold air set up you have shown in the picture here ? I just installed functional side scoops on my 88 Formula, and an intake setup like the one you have would really complete the package totally. Can you please tell me where you got this system, or how I can buy one. Thanks beforehand on any info about this.
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Report this Post07-03-2016 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

Hey Fierosound, where did you get the cold air set up you have shown in the picture here?


Cone filters can be bought anywhere. You just need to get one with the opening to match the pipes you're using.

I had to build my setup, because it crosses the engine bay to feed the Supercharger - located where the A/C compressor would be.

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Report this Post07-03-2016 08:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for onesexyfieroClick Here to Email onesexyfieroSend a Private Message to onesexyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First, it's very important to get a good quality filter: K&N, S&B, etc., not Autozone Spectre or something like that. There's a reason they cost twice as much. I've pulled 1 month old cheap filters and 5 year old K&N's. The K&N's look better. Secondly, clean and oil them regularly. Rinse from the inside out. Allow to fully dry. Apply oil.
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Report this Post07-05-2016 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks you guys, and yes, I know about buying a quality filter. I had the K&N in mind. Its the hardware I'm concerned of. I don't have the capabilities to build a tight set up. Now what ????
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Report this Post07-05-2016 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by onesexyfiero:

First, it's very important to get a good quality filter: K&N, S&B, etc., not Autozone Spectre or something like that. There's a reason they cost twice as much. I've pulled 1 month old cheap filters and 5 year old K&N's. The K&N's look better. Secondly, clean and oil them regularly. Rinse from the inside out. Allow to fully dry. Apply oil.


Could you go into detail about what is wrong with Spectre /other filters?
Also, since you mentioned the oiling, what about "dry type" cone filters that say they don't require oil.
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Report this Post07-05-2016 03:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


I did the same. It's a lot less dirt getting kicked up into the filter.




My recently acquired 87 GT actually has that as well. With the wheel well on I was wondering if it restricted the flow, or even caused suction from the warm engine bay?
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Report this Post07-05-2016 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know most people install a cone filter behind the wheel well, but my plan is to build a carbon fiber box that mounts in the factory filter housing location, to contain the cone filter, with a tube routed similar to stock for the inlet to the housing.
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Report this Post07-05-2016 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

...my plan is to build a carbon fiber box that mounts in the factory filter housing location, to contain the cone filter, with a tube routed similar to stock for the inlet to the housing.


So I've got to ask... What is the advantage over the factory air filter setup?
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Report this Post07-05-2016 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

So I've got to ask... What is the advantage over the factory air filter setup?


Well, the factory setup is what, 2" round hole? That won't be enough air for an LS4 spinning 8000 RPM.

Also, carbon fiber == pretty for the car show.
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Report this Post07-05-2016 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Also, carbon fiber == pretty for the car show.


Okay, that part I get.

 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Well, the factory setup is what, 2" round hole? That won't be enough air for an LS4 spinning 8000 RPM.


I doubt all these re-worked air filter setups are to supply LS4's (and other engines requiring high air flow). I guess I just don't understand why people with 2.8's would bother installing a cone filter in the engine bay or wheel well. Seems to me to be a lot of extra effort to put an air filter (and/or its intake) in a worse location.
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Report this Post07-05-2016 05:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pat....I'm no engineer, but I know it gets quite hot in the engine bay, so wouldn't installing the filter in the wheel well be somewhat of an improvement over the stock set up ?
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Report this Post07-05-2016 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I doubt all these re-worked air filter setups are to supply LS4's (and other engines requiring high air flow). I guess I just don't understand why people with 2.8's would bother installing a cone filter in the engine bay or wheel well. Seems to me to be a lot of extra effort to put an air filter (and/or its intake) in a worse location.


Oh. Well all the cars with cone filters there I've seen, have been 3800 and LS3 swaps.

Agree for 2.8 that factory is plenty fine.
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Report this Post07-05-2016 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

Pat....I'm no engineer, but I know it gets quite hot in the engine bay, so wouldn't installing the filter in the wheel well be somewhat of an improvement over the stock set up ?


The stock setup doesn't put the filter in the bay. It's inside a sealed container, and is a cold air intake system.
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Report this Post07-05-2016 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

Pat....I'm no engineer, but I know it gets quite hot in the engine bay, so wouldn't installing the filter in the wheel well be somewhat of an improvement over the stock set up ?


As Dobey has stated... no. The factory air filter system draws cold air from outside the car.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-05-2016).]

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Report this Post07-05-2016 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofrenzyClick Here to Email fierofrenzySend a Private Message to fierofrenzyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Daaaaa....come to think of it, you guys are right....what was I thinking ?
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Report this Post07-05-2016 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

Daaaaa....come to think of it, you guys are right....what was I thinking ?


So why don't you simply connect the stock air filter canister to the driver's side scoop?

 
quote
Originally posted by fierofrenzy:

I just installed functional side scoops on my 88 Formula...

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Report this Post07-05-2016 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for viperineClick Here to Email viperineSend a Private Message to viperineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why not just route it through the cabin? Just keep a window down all the time and ya have the largest scoop ever.
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Report this Post07-06-2016 05:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a pod filter in my stock box made it fit.
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Report this Post07-06-2016 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My situation is unique. Its an 87GT with a TPI V8 I acquired fairly recently. The throttle body is on the passenger side, battery relocated and side scoops. The Cone is down behind the passenger side scoop. There is also a plastic baffle under it to keep dirty ground air limited. At speed I'm sure a lot of cold air is rammed into the cone, at idle I don't know how much it sucks, if the scoop openings are large enough or if it may suck some warm thru the hole where the battery try used to be, where the 3"tube comes down to the scoop. Mostly my question in my mind I was gathering data for was: is the baffle under it, overkill, functional, does it restrict too much. But sounds like the answer is I'm good the way it is. It will let more in than the factory hole would.

My other question that is still unanswered is as I mentioned:
*Could you go into detail about what is wrong with Spectre / other filters?
Also, since you mentioned the oiling, what about "dry type" cone filters that say they don't require oil.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 07-06-2016).]

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Report this Post07-06-2016 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Could you go into detail about what is wrong with Spectre /other filters?
Also, since you mentioned the oiling, what about "dry type" cone filters that say they don't require oil.


I would say that washable filters are going to be better, simply for the fact that they are reusable and you aren't throwing more trash that isn't going to get recycled, into the ground to lay there for 50000 years. If you live in an area that might be particularly dusty when driving then oiled is better, but for normal street use, dry is fine. Oiled filters are a little better at trapping smaller particulate, but generally speaking, either oiled or dry is fine. If there's a lot of driving on dirt/gravel to get to show venues, and less or same amount of street driving, an oiled filter might be better.

Mostly the Spectre filters are bad because they are usually just cheap mostly paper filters with cheap plastic that's been painted chrome.

I have a washable dry Airaid drop-in filter for my truck, and it's served me very well.
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Report this Post07-06-2016 09:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


I would say that washable filters are going to be better, simply for the fact that they are reusable and you aren't throwing more trash that isn't going to get recycled, into the ground to lay there for 50000 years. If you live in an area that might be particularly dusty when driving then oiled is better, but for normal street use, dry is fine. Oiled filters are a little better at trapping smaller particulate, but generally speaking, either oiled or dry is fine. If there's a lot of driving on dirt/gravel to get to show venues, and less or same amount of street driving, an oiled filter might be better.

Mostly the Spectre filters are bad because they are usually just cheap mostly paper filters with cheap plastic that's been painted chrome.

I have a washable dry Airaid drop-in filter for my truck, and it's served me very well.


Thanks the "dry" cone filters , meaning not oiled, and the Spectre cheaper oiled ones are washable per their instructions.

So is the concern that cheaper ones don't filter fine enough particles? I mean in general I don't care if the housing ends are not metal.
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Report this Post07-06-2016 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Thanks the "dry" cone filters , meaning not oiled, and the Spectre cheaper oiled ones are washable per their instructions.

So is the concern that cheaper ones don't filter fine enough particles? I mean in general I don't care if the housing ends are not metal.


I don't know if the Spectre filters themselves filter well or not. I don't trust them though, personally, just because the rest of the air intake parts they sell are junk (the tubing, MAF mounts, etc… that is). So I'd generally recommend against Spectre filters solely from my experience of their other intake parts being junk. Don't know about other cheap filter options either.

Dry vs oiled is a separate issue though. Either is fine, depending on where the car is driven most. If mostly in dusty/dry areas, then oiled filters are better.
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Report this Post07-06-2016 10:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found some "tests" to help explain the concept if anyone is interested.

http://www.fastcar.co.uk/tu...car-air-filter-test/

http://www.evolutionm.net/f...ut-test-results.html


Another thought, from what I gather it is a waste to buy one that is capped on the end, get one that has a "velocity stack" to let air in the end of the cone as well.


Something interesting, maybe new? Is these inline "bypass" filters... if the cone on the end isn't enough?



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Report this Post07-06-2016 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Another thought, from what I gather it is a waste to buy one that is capped on the end, get one that has a "velocity stack" to let air in the end of the cone as well.

Something interesting, maybe new? Is these inline "bypass" filters... if the cone on the end isn't enough?


I think capped on the end, versus having an inverted cone with more filter area, depends on needs and placement. If that end of the cone is virtually against a wall or such, then having a cap or not won't matter much, for example. The inverted cone ends are also a bit more of a pain to clean when the time comes.

That "bypass" filter image you posted makes no sense to me. I can't imagine why anyone would use such a thing for any valid technical reason. If you can't get enough air through the filter, then you probably are using the wrong filter.
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Report this Post07-06-2016 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


I think capped on the end, versus having an inverted cone with more filter area, depends on needs and placement. If that end of the cone is virtually against a wall or such, then having a cap or not won't matter much, for example. The inverted cone ends are also a bit more of a pain to clean when the time comes.

That "bypass" filter image you posted makes no sense to me. I can't imagine why anyone would use such a thing for any valid technical reason. If you can't get enough air through the filter, then you probably are using the wrong filter.


True. As far as the "bypass" one I was thinking if the situation or placement of the filter required a small cone due to limited space, yet there were lengths of tube in use that were available, one could put one or more of those "bypass" types in the tube. It would take up not much more space than the tube already there ( a little wider). Would only really work effectively if the tube was in a cold air area.
I just noticed those online and they seem to be new.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 07-06-2016).]

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Report this Post07-06-2016 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastfiero1Click Here to Email Fastfiero1Send a Private Message to Fastfiero1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Something interesting, maybe new? Is these inline "bypass" filters... if the cone on the end isn't enough?



Actually they sell those bypass filters for cars that use cold air intakes that hang low close to the ground. the idea is that with normal airflow and velocity, air will suck through the main cone filter. But should the main filter get submerged in water, rather than pull water into the engine it will draw air through the bypass filter instead saving the engine.

I've never put that to a test and only ran a short ram intake on the 93 Integra I used to have so I can't verify their reliability.

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Report this Post07-06-2016 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
True. As far as the "bypass" one I was thinking if the situation or placement of the filter required a small cone due to limited space, yet there were lengths of tube in use that were available, one could put one or more of those "bypass" types in the tube. It would take up not much more space than the tube already there ( a little wider). Would only really work effectively if the tube was in a cold air area.
I just noticed those online and they seem to be new.


True, but you answered your own question. If the cold air boxed area doesn't have enough room for an appropriately sized filter, you're not likely to be installing these things in that cold air boxed area either. They're going to be in a hot air area, and when it does come time to change filters, every one of these that's installed is yet another thing that needs to be cleaned (which looks like it would be very annoying to do), or discarded and replaced. Also, on setups where the IAT/MAF sensors are close to the filter, installing these after those sensors can cause issues, given the ECM is seeing a different amount of air, and a different temp, than may be going into the engine.
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Report this Post07-06-2016 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


True, but you answered your own question. If the cold air boxed area doesn't have enough room for an appropriately sized filter, you're not likely to be installing these things in that cold air boxed area either. They're going to be in a hot air area, and when it does come time to change filters, every one of these that's installed is yet another thing that needs to be cleaned (which looks like it would be very annoying to do), or discarded and replaced. Also, on setups where the IAT/MAF sensors are close to the filter, installing these after those sensors can cause issues, given the ECM is seeing a different amount of air, and a different temp, than may be going into the engine.


I suppose, since you can get a really long cylindrical filter instead. Unless there is a bend required.
yep I wouldn't install anything letting air in behind a MAF.
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Report this Post07-06-2016 12:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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quote
Originally posted by Fastfiero1:

Actually they sell those bypass filters for cars that use cold air intakes that hang low close to the ground. the idea is that with normal airflow and velocity, air will suck through the main cone filter. But should the main filter get submerged in water, rather than pull water into the engine it will draw air through the bypass filter instead saving the engine.



That makes sense

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