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Re-Painting help needed by hetterbr
Started on: 06-13-2016 07:37 PM
Replies: 17 (552 views)
Last post by: Australian on 06-24-2016 04:47 AM
hetterbr
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Report this Post06-13-2016 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hetterbrClick Here to Email hetterbrSend a Private Message to hetterbrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an 85GT that i had painted about 5 years ago. I had the painter sand it back down to bare parts and repaint it all off the body, then reassemble.

This year, the paint has started to bubble off the car. I took it back to him and he is going to repaint it for me.

He sliced into one of the bubbles and peeled the paint. He was able to take a good chunk of paint off of the car. So none of it is sticking. He is at a loss as to what to use to get this new paint job to work.

I know many, many of you have painted your cars with success. Can you help me out by letting me know what my paint guys needs to do to get the paint to stick and look good?

Thanks
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hetterbr
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Report this Post06-14-2016 12:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hetterbrClick Here to Email hetterbrSend a Private Message to hetterbrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump up to the top. Still looking for some insight into what original painter didn't do correctly.

Thanks
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Shho13
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Report this Post06-14-2016 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Odds are it's peeling in the same spot as mine; the bumpers. I assume that the guy didn't put adhesion promoter or flex agent in the paint.

There are a couple body guys around here, they will chime in soon

------------------
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Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Amida
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Report this Post06-14-2016 01:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AmidaClick Here to Email AmidaSend a Private Message to AmidaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the primer is peeling off then I would say that the surface cleaning/prep was insufficient. Oil / wax residue may have remained on the surface prior to sealing.
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Gall757
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Report this Post06-14-2016 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Our resident paint experts have been quiet for the last few months....

If the plastic panels were ever treated with paint remover instead of sanding, the chemicals stay in the plastic and cause trouble later. Also, the surface needs to be a little rough for the primer...maybe about 180 grit or so.
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IMSA GT
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Report this Post06-14-2016 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Our resident paint experts have been quiet for the last few months....

If the plastic panels were ever treated with paint remover instead of sanding, the chemicals stay in the plastic and cause trouble later. Also, the surface needs to be a little rough for the primer...maybe about 180 grit or so.


Garrison is too busy playing Dirty Harry, kicking in thug's chests at his front door

But thats the question....which parts are bubbling? The roof, decklid, and hood..... or just the flexible panels?

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 06-14-2016).]

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hetterbr
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Report this Post06-14-2016 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hetterbrClick Here to Email hetterbrSend a Private Message to hetterbrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The parts that are bubbling are:

Hood (below the headlight covers), passenger quarter panel (directly behind the door handle but not on the door), roof (around the sunroof and down along the sides of the front window).

The painter maintains that he did not use chemicals originally and that they used 180 grit.

the Paint is sticking to the pimer, but the primer is lifting. The primer used was: Sherwin Williams Primer 27 Grey.

He wondered about using an airborne primer as he used to use them on Corvettes back in the day.
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Gall757
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Report this Post06-14-2016 03:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your painter may have done everything right. One problem with SMC panels is that if there is a cut in the paint, water can get into the fiber resin and expand it. Does it look like this picture?

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 06-14-2016).]

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hetterbr
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Report this Post06-14-2016 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hetterbrClick Here to Email hetterbrSend a Private Message to hetterbrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It may look like that eventually, but mine looks just like bubbles under the paint.

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Gall757
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Report this Post06-14-2016 05:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If there is just air in your bubbles, the problem is something else....but if the top has expanded, there was damage to the paint that let water in.
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lildevil
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Report this Post06-14-2016 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageClick Here to Email lildevilSend a Private Message to lildevilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Its an adhesion issue due to sanding it down to the white SMC. Common problem and there seems to be no right answer. To me its due to water. If you look under the hood and headlight doors wear the upper and lower panels are glued together there needs to be a bead of seam sealer along the seam. Water gets in there and is absorbed by the SMC. Eventually it reaches the top. I've taken the headlight doors apart and there is NO primer underneath. I can only assume that the underside of the hood skin isn't either. The sunroof does this from leaking. Water seeps into the SMC from sitting underneath the rubber seal. Try using an epoxy primer like PPG DPLFor DPLV. Grind the bubbles and let them air out in the sun or under a heat lamp for a day or two. Then prime it (follow the directions to a T). Then put any filler over top the primer. Prime again with regular primer as long as no white SMC is showing. If it is epoxy prime it again. But unless something is done underneath the panels, it will probably happen again unfortunitly.

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LornesGT
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Report this Post06-14-2016 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LornesGTSend a Private Message to LornesGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


^ beautiful red notch back
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Khw
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Report this Post06-15-2016 02:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LornesGT:



^ beautiful red notch back


That it is.

Nice seeing you post Lildevil. It's been ages since I've seen one from you .
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hetterbr
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Report this Post06-15-2016 11:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hetterbrClick Here to Email hetterbrSend a Private Message to hetterbrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you for that information. it makes sense. just since the spring it has had to sit outside and the paint issue popped up shortly after it was sitting outside.

I will talk to my paint guy and give him the information. Then i will get the sunroof looked at as I know it leaks.

and I agree, very nice Red Fiero.

Cheers,
Brent
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ILVMYGT
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Report this Post06-15-2016 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ILVMYGTClick Here to Email ILVMYGTSend a Private Message to ILVMYGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I looked up the "Sherwin Williams Primer 27 Grey" and found the following from the Sherwin Williams site http://www.paintdocs.com/do...5&doctype=PDS&lang=2

"SpectraPrime
®
2.1 VOC Color Primer Surfacer is a premium quality 2K-urethane primer-sur
facer that utilizes state of the art Ure-Flex™ Technology to provide the ultimate in
performance, versatility, and productivity in areas that require low VOC coatings.

and

SUITABLE SUBSTRATES

Treated Steel
OEM Enamels
Body Filler
Treated Galvanized Steel
Refinish Enamels
Etching Primer
Treated Aluminum
Fiberglass
SW Plastic Adhesion Promoter

Note SMC (Sheet Molded Component) is not listed as a suitable substrate.

If the SMC panel had any white showing it had to be sealed with epoxy primer before putting the 2K-urethane primer-surfacer on.

Also regular Bondo will not stick to SMC, you have to use something like Vette Panel Adhesive/Filler. It is designed to stick to the SMC. "


------------------
88 GT 5 Speed Black with gray interior
3800 SCII Swap Complete.
Paint Complete
Detailing in Progress

IT RUNS!!
IT'S QUICK!!

"Real integrity is doing the right thing, knowing that nobody's going to know whether you did it or not."

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IanT720
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Report this Post06-16-2016 03:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We had a 97? Sunfire. Minor front end bump and the paint chipped on the plastic bumper. I was only a kid but I remember the shop tried repainting it like 3 times. Everytime it would eventually chip off. That's why I'm Vinyl wrapping my car
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cmechmann
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Report this Post06-17-2016 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A while back I was checking into what I would need to redo an engine cover that had a luggage rack. The holes where the rack mounted, had little chips which exposed the SMC.
The biggest difference between SMC and fiberglass panels is the amount of epoxy used. On normal fiberglass there is sometimes enough epoxy in the substrate to keep stuff from "wicking". On SMC, if any of the fibers are exposed anything will wick down into the substrate.
Like stated before, you will need something to draw out the water. And many days of keeping it dry, including humidity.
While checking what it would need to do that hood right, it was also suggested to use a skim coat of epoxy that you would use to repair fiberglass to seal off the fibers. Then fill or if level enough 2 part prime. Lightly sand and prime again. Being careful not to go through the skim coat of epoxy.
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Australian
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Report this Post06-24-2016 04:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One problem is coefficient expansion the plastic , fibreglass and putty, primer and paint all expand at different rates.
Painting on coldest or hottest day of the year isn't the best idea. Another problem is chemical If you have even the slightest hint of enamel paint over spray near acrylic it will bubble.
If the two pack primer sits on the car more than a few days after sanding back and painting it really needs to be re-primed. No point sanding down to bare material as not metal you will need to build it up with primer to make everything perfect. Make the hard finish with your two pack keep spraying it on and sanding back build up your hardened layer.

Not a painter just my experience.
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