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Relocating battery by Ryanap333
Started on: 04-18-2016 11:54 AM
Replies: 37 (1100 views)
Last post by: fieroguru on 12-09-2017 11:44 AM
Ryanap333
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Report this Post04-18-2016 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ryanap333Click Here to Email Ryanap333Send a Private Message to Ryanap333Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im relocating my battery to the front of my car. Do i have to lose the spare tire? I seen a guy selling abox for the battery to go under the spare tire or where the spare is.
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Report this Post04-18-2016 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not the way I do it, see battery box section on my web site.
you have to make it yourself though !

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Report this Post04-18-2016 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Norm's Fiberglass and V8 Archie both make battery trays that fit under the spare tire. I haven't used the one from V8 Archie. But I have used the one from Norm's Fiberglass. The spare tire will fit, if you trim some material from the back of the spare tire boot. I got around that by installing a smaller battery (from a Honda Civic). No trimming required.
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Report this Post04-18-2016 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Norm's Fiberglass and V8 Archie both make battery trays that fit under the spare tire. I haven't used the one from V8 Archie. But I have used the one from Norm's Fiberglass. The spare tire will fit, if you trim some material from the back of the spare tire boot. I got around that by installing a smaller battery (from a Honda Civic). No trimming required.


PO of my car installed Archie's box and when I put the spare in front I had do a lot of trimming and then you still have do a lot of maneuvering and adjusting to get it in.
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Report this Post04-18-2016 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for spiritClick Here to Email spiritSend a Private Message to spiritEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did the relocation thing but used a boat battery box. Trimmed it down but it is a pita to replace the battery or charge it. I made a jumper with plug-in terimals to be able to charge or jump the battery. Works great.
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Report this Post04-18-2016 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jims88Click Here to Email Jims88Send a Private Message to Jims88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I went with Norms kit on my 88 Formula.


I had some clearance issues with the passengers side coolant tube. I ended up having to bend it a little.


In hindsight I wouldn't purchase the heavy gauge red 2/0 welding cable with the kit, it seemed to be to bulky.


I'm happy with the quality and fit. I wish I would of thought of Blacktrees smaller Honda Civic battery idea before I trimmed my spare tire well.
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IanT720
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Report this Post04-19-2016 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like my top secret design.... Give you a hint. Front passenger corner.
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Report this Post04-19-2016 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gen2muchworkClick Here to Email gen2muchworkSend a Private Message to gen2muchworkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I made my own easy peazy.
used a stainless door kick.





used power lines from aurora/rivera $5 junkyard.

total project cost was about $10

sunroof still fits too.

[This message has been edited by gen2muchwork (edited 04-19-2016).]

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Report this Post04-19-2016 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IanT720:

I like my top secret design.... Give you a hint. Front passenger corner.


Won't work on a bumperpad type nose though. Not enough depth to put it there, even with a very small battery.

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Patrick
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Report this Post04-19-2016 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IanT720:

I like my top secret design.... Give you a hint. Front passenger corner.


That location is no secret for long time PFF members.

I relocated my battery to the front tub. I wanted the weight of the battery to be more centered in my Formula than under the headlight bucket. Because of autocrossing the car, I didn't want to possibly detract from the handling.

And as mentioned earlier, battery cables from GM cars with their battery under the back seat are perfect for this application... and really cheap at the wreckers.
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Report this Post04-19-2016 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

That location is no secret for long time PFF members.

I relocated my battery to the front tub. I wanted the weight of the battery to be more centered in my Formula than under the headlight bucket. Because of autocrossing the car, I didn't want to possibly detract from the handling.

And as mentioned earlier, battery cables from GM cars with their battery under the back seat are perfect for this application... and really cheap at the wreckers.


I know But wouldn't the battery offset your weight as the driver?
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Report this Post04-19-2016 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IanT720:

But wouldn't the battery offset your weight as the driver?


Well sure... maybe if I was jammed under the other headlight bucket.

I think we all agree that it's a good idea to remove some weight from the back of a Fiero, and relocate it to the front if we can't simply eliminate it completely. I just don't like the idea of mounting a relatively heavy component in an extreme corner of the car. Although the driver is situated more towards one side of the vehicle, that weight is still more or less centered front to back.
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Report this Post04-20-2016 01:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero ViceSend a Private Message to Fiero ViceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got mine from Archie. I'm pleased with the quality. Can't wait to install this summer. It has wider trim at top & bottom for better support.

[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 04-21-2016).]

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Report this Post04-20-2016 08:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by gen2muchwork:

I made my own easy peazy.
used a stainless door kick.





used power lines from aurora/rivera $5 junkyard.

total project cost was about $10

sunroof still fits too.



Stainless door kick???

what years riv??
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Report this Post04-20-2016 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Well sure... maybe if I was jammed under the other headlight bucket.

I think we all agree that it's a good idea to remove some weight from the back of a Fiero, and relocate it to the front if we can't simply eliminate it completely. I just don't like the idea of mounting a relatively heavy component in an extreme corner of the car. Although the driver is situated more towards one side of the vehicle, that weight is still more or less centered front to back.


Easy solution... put another battery under the driver's side.

I know the Fiero is a well balanced handling machine, but I seriously doubt that moving 40 pounds to one corner or the other makes a measurable difference in handling. Maybe it does, but I doubt it. It's like these bicyclists who obsess over a gram in a component but they themselves are 10 pounds overweight.
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Report this Post04-20-2016 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


Easy solution... put another battery under the driver's side.

I know the Fiero is a well balanced handling machine, but I seriously doubt that moving 40 pounds to one corner or the other makes a measurable difference in handling. Maybe it does, but I doubt it. It's like these bicyclists who obsess over a gram in a component but they themselves are 10 pounds overweight.


Putting weight at the far corners of a vehicle is a no no. for handling.. you want it above the axle line or between the 2.. not out side them..
weight outside the axle lines, act like a pendulum and the farther you put it, the more leverage it gets.. now you've made that 40 lb battery weigh 3-4 times that when you turn hard.. acting on the contact patch of the tires..
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Report this Post04-20-2016 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


Putting weight at the far corners of a vehicle is a no no. for handling.. you want it above the axle line or between the 2.. not out side them..
weight outside the axle lines, act like a pendulum and the farther you put it, the more leverage it gets.. now you've made that 40 lb battery weigh 3-4 times that when you turn hard.. acting on the contact patch of the tires..


I suppose that's true in theory. My point is that you still have 2,500 pounds or so inside the axles so it's like less than 2% out there. Can a 2% change in weight distribution be felt in the handling? I suppose it can is what you are telling me, Either way I'm not doing autocross so it doesn't matter to me.
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Report this Post04-20-2016 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have several Fieros that have front mounted batteries. I used Norm's kit each time and am relatively satisfied with the results. I am using Optima Red Top (and one Optima Yellow Top) batteries in the vehicles. You do have to work a bit to get the spare in and out of the tub but it is relatively easy to do so. It is no more difficult to change a battery in a Mera with Rodney gas lifts on the rear deck than a stock one so I am happy with my change. It also opened up a bit of room for an engine swap.

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Report this Post04-20-2016 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosaintSend a Private Message to nosaintEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does this affect a hood vent at all? Cant really tell from the pics. TIA

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Report this Post04-20-2016 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosaint:

Does this affect a hood vent at all? Cant really tell from the pics. TIA


It would take a pretty extreme hood vent to interfere with the battery tray. Even some of the more aggressive hood vents only dip a couple inches into the hood in that area. That's not even close to the battery tray.
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Report this Post04-21-2016 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nosaintSend a Private Message to nosaintEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
tanks much for the info

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Report this Post04-21-2016 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:
Won't work on a bumperpad type nose though. Not enough depth to put it there, even with a very small battery.


If you use a dyna-batt battery mounted like this it probably will (88 Formula):

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Report this Post04-21-2016 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TXOPIEClick Here to visit TXOPIE's HomePageClick Here to Email TXOPIESend a Private Message to TXOPIEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And if you utilize a DYNA-BATT...you could locate it here as well:
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gen2muchworkClick Here to Email gen2muchworkSend a Private Message to gen2muchworkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


Stainless door kick???

what years riv??


door kick from a commercial door. It's a stainless plate at the bottom to keep the door pretty when people kick it. Doors get replaced, Kicks are free stainless sheet
Honestly, I dont remember what year, but it was a 90 something I'm sure. I just grabbed cables from anything I could find in the GM side of the yard that had the under seat battery. I think the aurora one was a little longer or something.

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Report this Post04-22-2016 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by gen2muchwork:


door kick from a commercial door. It's a stainless plate at the bottom to keep the door pretty when people kick it. Doors get replaced, Kicks are free stainless sheet
Honestly, I dont remember what year, but it was a 90 something I'm sure. I just grabbed cables from anything I could find in the GM side of the yard that had the under seat battery. I think the aurora one was a little longer or something.


gotcha..
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gen2muchwork
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Report this Post04-22-2016 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gen2muchworkClick Here to Email gen2muchworkSend a Private Message to gen2muchworkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


gotcha..

I used the same type kick for my speaker mounts up front. I thinks I used your template for it too. Handy stuff.

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Report this Post11-02-2017 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonstertoneClick Here to Email MonstertoneSend a Private Message to MonstertoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Both Norm's & Archie's box depend on the spare to hold the battery in place. The spare is also a critical part of the design which contributed in the Fiero being the safest car, at the time, in front end collisions. Tell me about what it takes to hook up extension terminals so you can jump the battery, without having to remove the spare tire.
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Report this Post11-02-2017 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bjc 350Send a Private Message to bjc 350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see you are from Oregon too. If you use the method that Gen2much work used, you can run the cables up the front of the bulkhead between the bulkhead and cooling fan. That way, you will have space to connect jumper cables or a battery maintainer/charger in that space. Be careful to insulate against a dead short where the terminals pass thru the box. With Norm's and Archie's boxes being fiberglass, the chance of a dead short should be minimized. I use my own metal box, so have to be careful to keep things insulated. The spare should fit fine that way, and you can add a battery hold down from the HELP section of most any auto parts store. Good luck.
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Report this Post11-03-2017 10:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On mine, I installed a battery cut-off switch in the Negative line, and used a smaller distribution wire that was part of the Riviera cable on the positive cable to run to a small ( 1 lug) positive distribution point. I can use these two points for charging / jump starting, and the positive also provides a place up front for accessories ( like my power steering). Riviera's, Aurora's, and Bonneville's around 95-99 had the battery under the rear seat.

There are variations of the cut-off switch available. Some of them can even cut off all but the radio after a certain period of time, and can be remotely triggered on or off ( convenient). Nice if you let a car sit a lot- it can automatically keep the vehicle from draining the battery.... Mine is a manual one, but is set up so that it could be disabled from inside the car via a choke cable ( Old style pull choke).

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Report this Post12-07-2017 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonstertoneClick Here to Email MonstertoneSend a Private Message to MonstertoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Norm (Norn's Fiberglass) says "the steering dampener may be in the way, but you can remove it. It slows down your steering response."
Steering dampeners are usually there to negate minor shakes being transmitted to the steering wheel. Has anyone had to remove their steering dampener? Comments on steering?
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Report this Post12-07-2017 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Again? See http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/137953.html etc.

"Crash safe" Relocate OE batteries isn't simple as just adding aftermarket box mounted in the plastic spare tire wall. Group 75 and bigger batteries can tear out many Aftermarket battery mounts for most cars just from hitting potholes and other minor crashes.
"Dyna batt" is just a rebrand Motorcycle battery. Might work for normal use but parked a week or more then this battery is to small to handle ECM etc standby power. Worse in Hot or Cold weather because "eats" battery power. Is why US terms CA and CCA have different numbers after them. (Other countries use different terms but get same problem. Southern state batteries may not have CCA because design different by the makers. Makers expect hotter summers and rare below 0°F weather in winters)

 
quote
Originally posted by Monstertone:
Norm (Norn's Fiberglass) says "the steering dampener may be in the way, but you can remove it. It slows down your steering response."
Steering dampeners are usually there to negate minor shakes being transmitted to the steering wheel. Has anyone had to remove their steering dampener? Comments on steering?
It's to stops steeling wheel getting pulled, often pulled completely out of you hand(s), by potholes, RR tracks, etc.
Good dampers doesn't "slows down your steering response" because you steering won't close valves inside. But Sim to Shocks/Struts can "wear out" and then parts/oil inside have problems.

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Report this Post12-08-2017 05:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the Fiero is already well balanced, why move the battery to the front? And does the weight of a battery really make all that difference in a car like the Fiero?
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Report this Post12-08-2017 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rn2016:

If the Fiero is already well balanced, why move the battery to the front? And does the weight of a battery really make all that difference in a car like the Fiero?


It probably originated with V8 swaps.
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Report this Post12-08-2017 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am willing to bet 99% of the fiero owners would not notice the difference with a battery in the front or back. However it does create space in the engine compartment when moving it to the front. I also like it there because it looks better with the battery hidden away.
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Report this Post12-08-2017 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK. Makes sense. Thanks.
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Report this Post12-09-2017 03:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can use a smaller battery (Bigger then bs "Dyna batt") but can/will affect CA CCA and Reserve time often meaning all numbers are less then cheapest Group 75. You want best Smaller batteries.

 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:
I am willing to bet 99% of the fiero owners would not notice the difference with a battery in the front or back. However it does create space in the engine compartment when moving it to the front. I also like it there because it looks better with the battery hidden away.
If you want to hind the battery because some vents show it... Just cover it w/ black plastic.

Is funny that so many will move the battery... The sad kind...
Because Most people have way more people weight and crap in the truck etc that weighs more the Group 75 battery (~32#).
Worse Any weight in the Fiero trunk is behind rear axle and 30-100# or more there will negatively affect handling.

In fact Most legally overload the car w/ just people etc and never knew they do this. Most times overloaded cars won't be stopped by cops but can/will affect what happens in and after a crash. (Like can find Insurance won't pay out.) Overloading will affect Handling, Launching and Braking even ignoring legal issues.

Load/tire label for Fiero only allows ~401# (GM was thinking ≈ 2 ~150# people + ~100# cargo.)
Fiero GVW = OEM Curb weight + above.
Both labels are on the door but can't read after so many years. Other cars can have these on other doors or jams.
IOW...
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

My GVW is 3124# − 401# is 2723 OE Curb Weight (A bit under Max CW at Wiki and others.)
Curb weight includes Full load of Gas, washer fluid, etc w/o driver passenger(s) and cargo. (My GVW label is very hard to read to post a pic.)

Many Fiero V8 setups are overweight w/ just a small driver.
Most Fiero w/ trailers are overloaded w/ very little or nothing on the trailer. Worse, Many trailers are heavy before loaded like most Chop down Fiero trailers. They look good but most are heavy to haul and stop.
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Report this Post12-09-2017 04:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

If you want to hind the battery because some vents show it... Just cover it w/ black plastic.

Is funny that so many will move the battery... The sad kind...
Because Most people have way more people weight and crap in the truck etc that weighs more the Group 75 battery (~32#).
Worse Any weight in the Fiero trunk is behind rear axle and 30-100# or more there will negatively affect handling.

In fact Most legally overload the car w/ just people etc and never knew they do this. Most times overloaded cars won't be stopped by cops but can/will affect what happens in and after a crash. (Like can find Insurance won't pay out.) Overloading will affect Handling, Launching and Braking even ignoring legal issues.

Load/tire label for Fiero only allows ~401# (GM was thinking ≈ 2 ~150# people + ~100# cargo.)
Fiero GVW = OEM Curb weight + above.
Both labels are on the door but can't read after so many years. Other cars can have these on other doors or jams.
IOW...
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

My GVW is 3124# − 401# is 2723 OE Curb Weight (A bit under Max CW at Wiki and others.)
Curb weight includes Full load of Gas, washer fluid, etc w/o driver passenger(s) and cargo. (My GVW label is very hard to read to post a pic.)

Many Fiero V8 setups are overweight w/ just a small driver.
Most Fiero w/ trailers are overloaded w/ very little or nothing on the trailer. Worse, Many trailers are heavy before loaded like most Chop down Fiero trailers. They look good but most are heavy to haul and stop.


VERY interesting and useful information. Thanks for posting that.

[This message has been edited by Rn2016 (edited 12-09-2017).]

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Report this Post12-09-2017 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For a little update... my Dyna-Batt battery has been starting my LS4/F40 Fiero for 4.5 years and over 43K miles. In the winter months, it isn't uncommon for the car to set for a month or two outside in the elements, then when a warmer day comes, I get in the car, turn the key and it fires right up. It has never been on a trickle charger and has only needed jump started 1 time and that was within the first month of having the car run.

It has been issue free for me and my car, and I like not having the battery in the engine bay, or visible at all. I will likely get a new one next summer, as I normally replace all my batteries every 5 years whether they need it or not.
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