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Stupid battery cable question. by Quad Raider
Started on: 03-03-2016 08:58 PM
Replies: 19 (553 views)
Last post by: Patrick on 03-16-2016 09:56 PM
Quad Raider
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Report this Post03-03-2016 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm still working on the World's Slowest Engine Swap (c), and will be moving my battery to underneath the spare tire. As I've documented elsewhere on this forum, every time I make significant progress on my Fiero, one of the other cars in the family craps out. As a result, I've spent a lot of time recently working on my daughters' cars, one an old Camry and the other an old Accord. I noticed that the battery cable connections on those cars are different than the GM style I'm used to. I like the Japanese version better.

The import connections are much better because they're stronger yet smaller. Am I missing something? Why wouldn't all car makers use this style?

Japanese is the inset.

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Thunderstruck GT
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Report this Post03-03-2016 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I personally feel the side post connection is better, but I have and have had both.

The key to the side post connection is don't use pliers on the bolt. Use a 5/16" wrench as it was intended.

[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 03-03-2016).]

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84fiero123
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Report this Post03-03-2016 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those cheap import clamps like that I have seen just rot away a lot faster then the American style, if that means anything to you.

Steve

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and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



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Quad Raider
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Report this Post03-03-2016 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

Those cheap import clamps like that I have seen just rot away a lot faster then the American style, if that means anything to you.

Steve



You're in the frozen tundra, right? One daughter's car is 1990, the other is a 1992 and the cable ends look brand new in both.

On the other hand, a side post battery would fit better under the spare tire.
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theogre
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Report this Post03-04-2016 01:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From top picture...
Left is Steel etc terminal work well but can have problems too because of dissimilar metals problem. 2+ metals mounted to same + wet = big corrosion problems. Worse when salt water, road salt, etc, are in the mix.
Easy prevention is just spray w/ silicon to seal out water, road salt, etc.

Real GM side terminals are NOT made of lead. Is stamped steel then crimp on wire by hydraulic crimper. Hydro Crimper can deliver allot of force. So much force can cold flow the copper and reduce/eliminate any voids in the crimp area.
When new I pull the bolt and boot and coat terminals and copper w/ brake grease to "water proof" them.

OE Lead top terminals are ok but aftermarket lead top and side cable sets are often made cheap and have problem. I seen aftermarket parts that failed where wire meets terminal.
I clean and install them dry then spray w/ silicon.

Many spray oil base products but many aren't plastic friendly. That could weaken the battery case when terminal is and make acid leaks.

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84fiero123
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Report this Post03-04-2016 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad Raider:


You're in the frozen tundra, right? One daughter's car is 1990, the other is a 1992 and the cable ends look brand new in both.

On the other hand, a side post battery would fit better under the spare tire.


To be honest if you are putting new ones on of ether kind they should outlive you and maybe the next owner. It's all up to you, how about you by a set of each, brand new from the dealer and put one on one car and another on another and see what one brakes/rots first. I think if side post is a better fit, use them. If not use whatever you prefer, they are going to last longer than you do unless you never clean them.

I had a friend who was so anal when he washed his Brand New TA with less than a 100 miles on it he removed the cables and cleaned them.
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Report this Post03-09-2016 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad Raider:


The import connections are much better because they're stronger yet smaller. Am I missing something? Why wouldn't all car makers use this style?

Japanese is the inset.


That left post is a real pain. Ford Fusion & Econoline vans use them (American). Ask me how I know. I went to disco the Econoline cable to swap a battery and the whole thing disintegrated the moment I tried to unscrew it. Now left with just an eyelet on the end of the cable I was forced to clamp that to the battery post with a temporary c-clamp.

The fusion cable connector had eroded so bad that it took me 20 minutes to carefully separate it from the post without further damage. The metal clamp is so thin to start with its pathetic in respect to the Fiero OEM style. My original 86 Fiero cable ends are still in great shape versus the Fusion 7 yrs old are shot.

Spoon


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Report this Post03-09-2016 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for notwohornsClick Here to Email notwohornsSend a Private Message to notwohornsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spoon:


That left post is a real pain. Ford Fusion & Econoline vans use them (American). Ask me how I know. I went to disco the Econoline cable to swap a battery and the whole thing disintegrated the moment I tried to unscrew it. Now left with just an eyelet on the end of the cable I was forced to clamp that to the battery post with a temporary c-clamp.

The fusion cable connector had eroded so bad that it took me 20 minutes to carefully separate it from the post without further damage. The metal clamp is so thin to start with its pathetic in respect to the Fiero OEM style. My original 86 Fiero cable ends are still in great shape versus the Fusion 7 yrs old are shot.

Spoon


I agree. I've seen them go bad pretty fast over and over again

[

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Quad Raider
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Report this Post03-10-2016 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting. I hadn't considered the dissimilar metals issue.

I decided to stay with GM. While I was at the salvage yard last weekend I pulled the positive battery cables from a couple mid 90s Rivieras. The battery on that model is under the back seat so the positive cable is about 12 feet long. I got both cables for about $3.50.

[This message has been edited by Quad Raider (edited 03-10-2016).]

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carbon
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Report this Post03-11-2016 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Spoon:


That left post is a real pain. Ford Fusion & Econoline vans use them (American). Ask me how I know. I went to disco the Econoline cable to swap a battery and the whole thing disintegrated the moment I tried to unscrew it. Now left with just an eyelet on the end of the cable I was forced to clamp that to the battery post with a temporary c-clamp.

The fusion cable connector had eroded so bad that it took me 20 minutes to carefully separate it from the post without further damage. The metal clamp is so thin to start with its pathetic in respect to the Fiero OEM style. My original 86 Fiero cable ends are still in great shape versus the Fusion 7 yrs old are shot.

Spoon


Shhh... I may have traded in a Saturn Relay with a mini c-clamp on the battery terminal... terrible design... those durn'd imports from Georgia...
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Report this Post03-14-2016 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you look at new GM vehicles, at least the trucks as that is what I sold, they went back to the top post. Why? my summation is to cut back on warranty claims. Side post would jar off and give a no start situation, because the cable was unhooked. You have to keep in mind not all customers are smart. Most don't have a clue. LOL So they would call dealer and complain, my car wont start and it is under warranty.

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 03-14-2016).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post03-15-2016 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad Raider:

I decided to stay with GM. While I was at the salvage yard last weekend I pulled the positive battery cables from a couple mid 90s Rivieras. The battery on that model is under the back seat so the positive cable is about 12 feet long. I got both cables for about $3.50.


And that's exactly the reason why I would've suggested staying with a side-post battery when relocating the battery. Those are great cables to use when moving the battery up front.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-15-2016).]

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thesameguy
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Report this Post03-15-2016 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:

If you look at new GM vehicles, at least the trucks as that is what I sold, they went back to the top post. Why? my summation is to cut back on warranty claims. Side post would jar off and give a no start situation, because the cable was unhooked. You have to keep in mind not all customers are smart. Most don't have a clue. LOL So they would call dealer and complain, my car wont start and it is under warranty.



The number of messed up side-post batteries I've seen over time is astounding. Rounded off heads, stripped out threads in the battery, the craziest, jenkyest methods for attaching aux loads. I appreciate the value side-post batteries potentially bring to the game, but if they were overall that good someone other than GM would have adopted them by now. I suspect there is no clear advantage to conventional top-post batteries and GM just remains stubborn. Ford tried UC terminal batteries on some cars back in the '80s but gave it up in short order. There just isn't a real reason to reinvent the wheel here.

Edit: I had so many battery projects I bit the bullet and bought an industrial crimper. So worth it. I've been making battery cables like it's going out of style.

Motorhome:



Replacing the stupid UC cables on my '80s Ford

[This message has been edited by thesameguy (edited 03-15-2016).]

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Quad Raider
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Report this Post03-15-2016 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've never had any post-related problems with either type of battery. I have broken a few top post cable connectors over the years by over tightening them.

A side post battery fits better under the spare tire.
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Report this Post03-16-2016 07:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've found those cheap "band" style clamps really suck. I've snapped many because they rotted away. As far as top post vs side post... Top post is uglier. That's all. Side post looks cleaner, makes for a shorter height. And prevents the cables from corroding.
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Quad Raider
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Report this Post03-16-2016 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are some photos of the Riviera cables I bought at the salvage.


I also grabbed the junction block from the second car. I haven't decided how I'll route the cables on the Fiero but I figured it might be handy to have this.


The cables also come with grommets already installed.


I know other GM vehicles also have the battery under the back seat. For instance, my mom's 2002 LeSabre does. I think my brother's 2008 HHR has the battery under the cargo floor at the rear.

When I started to remove the first cable at the salvage yard I was worried that it would be too short, but once I got it out and stretched it I realized it probably has a couple of feet of extra length.
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Patrick
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Report this Post03-16-2016 01:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad Raider:

I also grabbed the junction block from the second car. I haven't decided how I'll route the cables on the Fiero but I figured it might be handy to have this.


On my Formula, I mounted the extra junction box you pictured on the outside of the front of the "tub". I ran the thinner positive cable from the front mounted battery to it. This then gives easy front access to battery power.

The other end of the main positive cable goes directly to the starter. The thinner positive cable at this end goes to the OEM power junction by the original battery location. You'll find though that this cable is a bit too short to reach. I rectified that by extending the cable (soldered and shrink-wrapped) using part of the original positive battery cable.

Other than needing to extend that one thinner positive cable that goes between the starter and the OEM power junction, these cables are perfect for moving the battery up front. They're the right length, the right gauge, the correct fittings are on all the ends... and just as important, they're often the right price at the wreckers. Cheap!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-16-2016).]

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Quad Raider
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Report this Post03-16-2016 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Other than needing to extend that one thinner positive cable that goes between the starter and the OEM power junction, these cables are perfect for moving the battery up front. They're the right length, the right gauge, the correct fittings are on all the ends... and just as important, they're often the right price at the wreckers. Cheap!



Amen to that. The girl who rang me up must have thought I only had one cable, so she only charged me $3.50. To say I'm a regular customer would be a giant understatement, so I don't feel bad about it.

I struggled a bit getting the first one out of the car, but then i knew the secret and had the second one out in about 10 minutes.
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Quad Raider
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Report this Post03-16-2016 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Quad RaiderClick Here to Email Quad RaiderSend a Private Message to Quad RaiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Quad Raider

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Member since Dec 2010
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

The other end of the main positive cable goes directly to the starter. The thinner positive cable at this end goes to the OEM power junction by the original battery location. You'll find though that this cable is a bit too short to reach. I rectified that by extending the cable (soldered and shrink-wrapped) using part of the original positive battery cable.



I'm switching to a Quad 4 and it's been so long since I pulled the Iron Duke out of the car I don't remember if the starter locations are similar. The starter on the Quad is on what will be the firewall side of the engine.
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Patrick
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Report this Post03-16-2016 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad Raider:

I'm switching to a Quad 4 and it's been so long since I pulled the Iron Duke out of the car I don't remember if the starter locations are similar.


On both the duke and the 2.8, the starter is on the side of the engine towards the front of the car.
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