Maybe I've been living under a rock and am simply unaware of any issues with giving out a VIN number...
Emailed a Craigs post on a 87, and as they had zip for detsils, I asked for pics and more info. Said if they cared they could send me the VIN and I'd simply decode it to see what options ought to be on the car, and was told I was dreaming. Seemed to be a slightly rude response when they're trying to sell something that I'm trying to decide how interested I am in it, but perhaps there is a legitimate concern giving that info out? CL even has a blank in the form that you can publish the VIN in so I'm not aware of anything I could do beyond possibly calling my insurance agent and getting coverage on it LOL
So tell me, is there a danger in giving out a vehicles VIN? I assume I could fill out a lost title form or something at the DMV but really can't imagine doing anything nefarious with the info...
No reason not to get a vin. Either they don't know, or they are scamming.
I even asked the seller why and he sent this response. At least he was nice enough to answer me:
"you can file for a vin claim and if no one answers it you can get 1 in your name"
I had thought the process at the DMV was a bit more involved then that. I think I should cover the VINs on my cars now when I park it at the mall. Anyone could copy down the number!
Maybe I'd be better off asking for a pic of the build plate or whatever it is on the wheel well. That's really what I was thinking about to figure out all the options as built. Don't think the VIN gives all that info so I was wrong in the first place it seems.
Eh guess I'll just see if I get promised pics in a couple days.
Originally posted by CavScout: I even asked the seller why and he sent this response. At least he was nice enough to answer me:
"you can file for a vin claim and if no one answers it you can get 1 in your name"
I had thought the process at the DMV was a bit more involved then that. I think I should cover the VINs on my cars now when I park it at the mall. Anyone could copy down the number!
Is a bogus answer. Could be poster is confusing vin and title but is a problem w/ that too in most states. Walk away from this unless you can gamble and accept any problems, including lost money and the car.
some examples: Is fake ad to rip you off. shop/owner w/o a good vin and/or title. Unknown title can have active liens and bank etc still "owns" the car. They know the Car is stolen and don't want provide a VIN.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Not to say the seller is being reasonable but some people are overly cautious with giving out the vin for their car. They usually think someone is trying to scam them somehow. I wouldn't think anything negative until I talked to the person on the phone or face to face. I've dealt with people like this before and they are nice and very honest just not well informed. I'd say if its something you really want to look at go ahead and look at it and check everything out in person, it could just end up being a waste of time (and that can happen even with everything going well looking at some cars). Jessica
Originally posted by 78_elky: I'd say if its something you really want to look at go ahead and look at it and check everything out in person, it could just end up being a waste of time (and that can happen even with everything going well looking at some cars). Jessica
Yeah, I know... that's the problem talking to someone that's over 4 hours away. I need a better idea if I want it prior to risking a day of driving to go look at something in person. I drive that far, I'd rather not come home empty handed.
Walk away from this unless you can gamble and accept any problems, including lost money and the car.
some examples: Is fake ad to rip you off. shop/owner w/o a good vin and/or title. Unknown title can have active liens and bank etc still "owns" the car. They know the Car is stolen and don't want provide a VIN.
Yeah good advice. I sent a pic of my build sticker with all the codes on it, but with the VIN blacked out (only took a minute to do on my phone) and he said that sticker is missing as well. But helpfully claimed his boss knew the original owner which is how he got it. Whole thing just strikes me as odd.
Why? If someone tried to report it as their stolen property they would be the ones in jail once you produced the title and/or registration in your name. As a buyer, I'd NEVER exen go look at a vehicle where the seller was protective of the VIN. More often than not it means something fishy is going on (stolen, title issues, crashed, year/model mismatch, etc)
You should never give out a vin to just anyone. It is also recommended that you cover the one on your car so it is not visible from outside.
Now granted this is rare and usually involves a car of great value but people have pulled some scams where they have reproduced a Corvette that may have rare options. So two cars end up being around and then they accuse each other of being fake. What they do is pretty much steal your car from you and you and it never leaves your garage. They then sell the fake and if the new owner finds out something is wrong then they come after you and the burden is on you to prove you have the real car.
I forget what magazine but they played out the exact scam and it could get ugly if it happens.
Now the odds of this happening on a Fiero are very remote but just something to consider if you do have a rare or very valuable car.
There are several variations of the VIN scam but here are just a couple and there are more variations.
You should never give out a vin to just anyone. It is also recommended that you cover the one on your car so it is not visible from outside. ... There are several variations of the VIN scam but here are just a couple and there are more variations. .
I hadn't heard about this VIN cloning racket, but like any crime a determined thief is always looking for ways to get over on regular people. But new cars make it nearly impossible to hid the VIN unless you etch the windshield where the VIN is displayed.
Still if you are selling a car you have to share information about it to prospective buyers, including the VIN, that's part of the deal. If it's too risky then trade it in at a dealership. They will absolutely want to see the VIN and you will absolutely get the lowest imaginable price for the car. Choose your poison.
The potential buyer doesn't trust the seller but the seller is suppose to trust the potential buyer.
Like I said, you want it, show your face or don't waste either one of our time.
I'm sure if you were selling a Fiero, you'd have more than the bare minimum info in your listing. I was trying to get some more information from the buyer to even determine if what they had was even worth the drive to check it out. Asked for a VIN in a mistaken attempt to figure out what the car had / was. Hell, he had the year wrong and when I asked "are you sure that's an 86?" he corrected it. So yeah, if he was local sure I'd drive there for giggles. As he's not, and I explained I wasn't, if he was interested in a sale to someone that had CASH he'd answer a few questions. He explained why he wouldn't give out the VIN, ok, but he never answered basic questions like how's the interior? Tail lights? Sun roof or no? Etc etc. Asking for more pics, on a car he just posted, and was told he'd have time on Monday. (Even tho he had time to post the ad in the first place, but can't send any additional pics.)
So, if legit, probably too bad for me (or him depending on point of view) because his customer "service" was so bad. Maybe someone closer to him will put up with the game, likely not for what he's asking tho. GLWTS and all that the search continues LOL
I still don't get what trust is required here unless the car is ULTRA rare and ULTRA valuable. That kind of market is VERY different from the car market that the Fiero exists in. In our market I'd be more concerned about someone trying to bullshit me about what year the car is or what trim level than trying to steal the car via some elaborate VIN cloning scheme.
If he don't want to give you the vin just ask for pics of where you can see all the options you are interested in. He's probably being very cautious. Did you talk to him over the phone yet ? If not, offer your phone number and see if he will text you the pics. Giving him your phone number may settle him down a bit. By the way, hello neighbor. I'm in Buffalo too. Good luck
If he don't want to give you the vin just ask for pics of where you can see all the options you are interested in. He's probably being very cautious. Did you talk to him over the phone yet ? If not, offer your phone number and see if he will text you the pics. Giving him your phone number may settle him down a bit. By the way, hello neighbor. I'm in Buffalo too. Good luck
Solid advice ^ ^ ^
Text and internet has tons of nutjobs. Personal contact is what most sellers want to deal with.
Hey Adjustso, are you the guy that knows Richie at Union Auto?
Used car dealers post VINs on their ads so I don't see why this seller would be so vehement about not giving it to you. How can you run a carfax without the VIN?
If he don't want to give you the vin just ask for pics of where you can see all the options you are interested in. He's probably being very cautious. Did you talk to him over the phone yet ? If not, offer your phone number and see if he will text you the pics. Giving him your phone number may settle him down a bit. By the way, hello neighbor. I'm in Buffalo too. Good luck
I did ask for pics LOL and he said he wouldn't have time to take any until Monday.
As he only had email listed to reply, I was limited to that. So I did email him back again, and said if easier to text the pics or he'd like to chat let me know and I'd send him my number. We'll see. I'd feel better if he managed to answer any of the questions about the car in any of his emails LOL
I did ask for pics LOL and he said he wouldn't have time to take any until Monday.
As he only had email listed to reply, I was limited to that. So I did email him back again, and said if easier to text the pics or he'd like to chat let me know and I'd send him my number. We'll see. I'd feel better if he managed to answer any of the questions about the car in any of his emails LOL
No pics and he's evasive about the VIN? Stay away!
I hadn't heard about this VIN cloning racket, but like any crime a determined thief is always looking for ways to get over on regular people. But new cars make it nearly impossible to hid the VIN unless you etch the windshield where the VIN is displayed.
Still if you are selling a car you have to share information about it to prospective buyers, including the VIN, that's part of the deal. If it's too risky then trade it in at a dealership. They will absolutely want to see the VIN and you will absolutely get the lowest imaginable price for the car. Choose your poison.
Well there are intelligent ways around this.
First off if you are selling a car under $10K few people are going to be scamming.
Second if you have say a Ram Air GTO you would have it documented by Pontiac Historical Services anyways if you were reaching for top dollar. Same for most other cars.
Third you could also share the vin less the production number so the engine and model options could be documented.There is enough there to give them what they need.
As for a Fiero I would just go look a the car and just see what it is. If the price is low it really matters little if it is a GT now and now before. Also if you are that serious you would see the title before you exchange the money.
There is a matter of trust and it is difficult in some deals but generally you can work most out if you really want to buy or sell a car.
I sold my old Chevelle SS and I told the guy up front since he was young I would take him for a ride and not let him drive it. I really did not think he had the money. The idiot got a loan to buy the car and then bought it with never driving it.
Then I sold my SSEI and the guy came from Florida to Ohio to buy it. I asked him to take it for a test drive and he said no it looked good? His test was going back to West Palm Beach.
The bottom line is you can most times work out a deal if you work with each other. As for a $1500 Fiero as long as it looked good after my inspection and had a clean title I would hold little worry over Vin either way.
Most times $1500 cars are parts cars anyways anymore.
Used car dealers post VINs on their ads so I don't see why this seller would be so vehement about not giving it to you. How can you run a carfax without the VIN?
Exactly. I like to see a carfax report of a car before I buy it. So either the seller needs to give me the VIN or provide me with a current carfax report for that car. If the seller refuses to do either of those, I walk. Period.
Second of all, used car dealerships typically put the VIN in the ad... so people can run carfax checks!
I also refuse to buy a car sight unseen. Photos help me decide if I want to take the time to drive out and see the car. No photos = not wasting my time.
That said, seller may have misinterpreted your email. It happens. My advice would be to contact the seller again and explain why you're asking for the VIN. Try to be as polite as possible. If the seller still gives you grief, walk away.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 02-28-2016).]
That was the problem guys. Car 4 hours away. Not running. One bad pic in ad it was obviously pushed back into the weeds. Pic wasn't of the whole car, the top wasn't in the pic, just a front angle shot, and a poor one at that. Asked for more pics, was told Monday. Then I asked for the VIN in a mistaken attempt to try to figure out what exactly he had.
Was told I was dreaming.
Asked about interior, options, sun roof, etc etc and told it needed a fuel pump to run. Asked for a pic of the build sticker and sent him a copy of MINE and was told the one on his car is missing.
All of this without answering ANY questions about the car. And yet, I still offered to send him my cell number if texting would be easier.
Now come on guys. It's $1000 POS and I'm not wasting a day just to look at something and figure out how to drag it home without having the slightest idea if I really want it.
And trust me. I was polite. I used full sentences and punctuation. I explained myself. Told him where I was, that I had cash, and WOULD drive there and buy on the spot if I liked it. You'd think a couple questions may have been answered? But I was told how I could apply for a title if I had a VIN and somehow swipe his POS.
It'd be easier to bring cash and a trailer.
I'm not gonna waste a dime on a car fax for a thousand dollar car. Does it have a clear title? Good enough. I was just trying to figure out if the car was even worth his asking price and my time.
That was the problem guys. Car 4 hours away. Not running. One bad pic in ad it was obviously pushed back into the weeds. Pic wasn't of the whole car, the top wasn't in the pic, just a front angle shot, and a poor one at that.
I just bought a '67 Olds 442 the same way, only it was 3 hours-45 minutes away.
I drove there with cash in hand and trailer in tow.
I just bought a '67 Olds 442 the same way, only it was 3 hours-45 minutes away.
I drove there with cash in hand and trailer in tow.
That's what makes a "serious buyer".
Or stupid. Not calling you stupid, but you were pretty sure you were at least going to see a 67 442. If the price is what you want to pay, and you could care less about the condition, and more importantly, have the time to gamble and risk making a trip for nothing, be my guest "serious buyer".
Yes, there are some cars rare enough to justify that.
87 GT's don't exactly fall into that category, for me anyways.
There are 2 on this site now, in better condition, for about the same money. (Blue GTs.) This car is hardly a "steal" at the price, but it is closer which is why I inquired. Both here are in better condition.
How long were you looking for a 442?
I envy you that you have the time, and equipment to gamble to show how serious you are. That's fine.
However, there is nothing wrong with trying to get some details from anyone trying to sell something. It's not so rare that if I let this one pass me by, I'll "never find another and regret the day".
At any rate, this began because I wondered if there were legitimate concerns sharing VIN info. Turns out there can be. I didn't know.
There are strokes & jokes out there and there are sellers that simply will not deal with them. I am one of those sellers.
Although this Fiero is not mine, the seller isn't doing anything I wouldn't do.
You can call me a jerk, scammer, whatever, but I can also say the same about a buyer that screws the pooch plus I can add that he/she is a stroke and a joke too.
Yes, there may be others out there for sale but as a seller I can tell you that there are more "serious buyers" with money than there are sellers with what a buyer/dreamer is looking for.
A person can play the game however they like but when it come to buyers and sellers, the seller always wins.
This is what's wrong with society today, consumers with their nose in the air (and their head up their ass) saying "what are you going to do for me today".
This is what's wrong with society today, consumers with their nose in the air (and their head up their ass) saying "what are you going to do for me today".
That encapsulates what's wrong with society today? I can't find how to do the little smiley face rolling around laughing his ass off, but if I could, I'd insert it.
I had a PFF member over here yesterday buying some things.
He PM'd me asked me if I had what he needed, I gave him my address, he showed up with cash in hand and left with most of what he needed and then some. No back 'n forth emails, no pic of this or pic of that, no let me sleep on it. He was a "serious" buyer. Easy... Peasy!
Here's the deal, if you want something, go there. If you won't (not can't) there then you really don't want it anyway.
Here's the deal, if you want something, go there. If you won't (not can't) there then you really don't want it anyway.
The problem is that many out there are dis-honest sellers. They hide, lie or just mis-represent what they have. Also, how hard it is to take good pictures? It isn't like one has to hire a professional photographer. I don't mind checking something out in person if it is a short drive, but if it is 3-4 hours. I want good pictures and description. Otherwise, the seller really isn't interested in selling.
There are strokes & jokes out there and there are sellers that simply will not deal with them. I am one of those sellers.
Although this Fiero is not mine, the seller isn't doing anything I wouldn't do.
You can call me a jerk, scammer, whatever, but I can also say the same about a buyer that screws the pooch plus I can add that he/she is a stroke and a joke too.
Yes, there may be others out there for sale but as a seller I can tell you that there are more "serious buyers" with money than there are sellers with what a buyer/dreamer is looking for.
A person can play the game however they like but when it come to buyers and sellers, the seller always wins.
This is what's wrong with society today, consumers with their nose in the air (and their head up their ass) saying "what are you going to do for me today".
There is a hassle on both sides. I've done business with a lot of people on this forum. There were some people whom, after a phone call or some pictures, I decided the item wasn't quite what I wanted. Sometimes pictures help, sometimes not. My dream Fiero was available in Indiana, a few years ago. 5 hours' drive time, each way. Maybe a bit more. Anyway, I asked for a few pics, and the model of the transmission. The seller didn't come through. Apparently, it wasn't my dream Fiero, after all. I see sellers on here frequently complaining about their car not selling. If the seller doesn't offer what I want, I'll keep my money, and they can keep their car. Maybe they'll make someone else happy, maybe not.
As a buyer, I expect to be treated like a king. Too often, I've gone to Best Buy, or MicroCenter, and the salespeople don't kniw what they sell, where it is, or the most basic things about any of their products. Fortunately, I'm literate and can read the box, but apparently, they aren't. Some items are locked up. If I bring the tag, and they can't bring me the correct item in 3 attempts, I walk. As car dealerships, I tell them what I want. They usually take me to what they want to sell, instead. I walk. When buying houses, I make a reasonable offer. If they make a ridiculous counter, I walk. Bottom line, I don't have the time or patience for idiots or people playing games. They often beg me to give them another chance. I'm done.
If a seller can't email me a few pictures, then I guess he isn't very serious. If he doesn't want my money, I'm sure I can find someone else to take it off my hands.
If a seller can't email me a few pictures, then I guess he isn't very serious. If he doesn't want my money, I'm sure I can find someone else to take it off my hands.
Yup... "don't have a camera"... but they are trying to sell a $10K vehicle. Hmm... $50 for a camera. Or just talk to any kid and they can snap some pics with their "phone".
