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Seems legal reproduce a Fiero now. by lou_dias
Started on: 01-20-2016 04:05 PM
Replies: 7 (421 views)
Last post by: Napoleon_Tanerite on 01-21-2016 08:42 AM
lou_dias
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Report this Post01-20-2016 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.yahoo.com/autos/...stead-145837081.html

So now, in theory, someone could 3D scan the frame and reproduce it in carbon fiber or aluminum...and sell a complete car.
Won't have to comply with Federal safety standards.

Flawless victory!
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84fiero123
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Report this Post01-20-2016 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
is manufactured under a license for the product configuration, trade dress, trademark or patent for the motor vehicle that is intended to be replicated from the original manufacturer, its successors or assignees, or current owner of such rights, unless there is a preponderance of evidence that such rights have been abandoned for at least three years.

https://www.govtrack.us/con...ills/114/hr2675/text

The full bill is at the link, we were talking about it last year in OT, I think I even started the thread about it, but with my memory who knows

Steve


------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-20-2016).]

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Napoleon_Tanerite
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Report this Post01-20-2016 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Napoleon_TaneriteSend a Private Message to Napoleon_TaneriteEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

is manufactured under a license for the product configuration, trade dress, trademark or patent for the motor vehicle that is intended to be replicated from the original manufacturer, its successors or assignees, or current owner of such rights, unless there is a preponderance of evidence that such rights have been abandoned for at least three years.

https://www.govtrack.us/con...ills/114/hr2675/text

The full bill is at the link, we were talking about it last year in OT, I think I even started the thread about it, but with my memory who knows

Steve



And don't think for a second that just since Pontiac is gone that GM doesn't want their taste of anything with an arrowhead on it.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post01-20-2016 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Napoleon_Tanerite:

And don't think for a second that just since Pontiac is gone that GM doesn't want their taste of anything with an arrowhead on it.


That was the reason for posting that part I am sure their are others like that in there that will make virtually impossible for the average person or even bunch of people to do something like this, or making it so costly that only people like Carol Shelby could afford.

Steve
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Report this Post01-21-2016 03:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jmbishopClick Here to Email jmbishopSend a Private Message to jmbishopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not only would you run into legal issues but the proposed manufacturing by the OP isn't realistic. The frame was designed to be made from steel, making it in other materials makes no sense, they have different properties and would need to be engineered differently to suit the material. Tooling would be so expensive, it's just unattainable to even reproduce the steel.

The body mounts are important, other than that as long as the structure underneath fits under the body pannels and everything mechanical fits you're good, tube frame is easier to engineer and an obtainable build. Carbon fiber and aluminum both would have their own unique challenges.

Theoretically you could design a frame that is engineered from flat laser cut carbon fiber epoxied together. Without the right engineering you could easily be sacrificing rigidity and safety as well a not actually making a weight improvement. And it still wouldn't be cheap.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post01-21-2016 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:

Not only would you run into legal issues but the proposed manufacturing by the OP isn't realistic. The frame was designed to be made from steel, making it in other materials makes no sense, they have different properties and would need to be engineered differently to suit the material. Tooling would be so expensive, it's just unattainable to even reproduce the steel.

The body mounts are important, other than that as long as the structure underneath fits under the body pannels and everything mechanical fits you're good, tube frame is easier to engineer and an obtainable build. Carbon fiber and aluminum both would have their own unique challenges.

Theoretically you could design a frame that is engineered from flat laser cut carbon fiber epoxied together. Without the right engineering you could easily be sacrificing rigidity and safety as well a not actually making a weight improvement. And it still wouldn't be cheap.
]


Ah No, not engineers ! Have you ever read about the minor engineering mistakes I have seen at GM?

1. 80s rear window, we called it the back light for that olds that had a almost square back window. the company, PPG or who ever it was GM contracted to make the windows hand a 95% rejection rate at the glass factory. then when we got the windows the engineers made the opening to large, we dropped pre urethaned glass right threw the hole, the engineers said it would fit in.

2. 80s door pads that got redesigned that the carrots were in places there where no holes, that all the repairmen including me on the line after the door pad install were given a bottle of super glue, (The size of a large bottle of Elmer's glue, that's how bad the problem was, not to mention the ones before they gave us the super glue to bandage the mistake until we got new doors made. instead of drilling a new hole where it needed to be. we had an entire line filled with those doors and door pads all the way from the body shop to the trim department where we put the back light and windshield in as well as the door pads.

I have seen literally dozens of engineering mistakes made by GMs engineers. Can you imagine a small car manufacturer even being able to absorb mistakes like that, that every car maker has made over the years?

It is a nice idea, but between start up costs, licencing fees to the original company for all those things they have like emblems, sure the emblems could be made by them, but at what cost between all those little fees, which wouldn't be small by any means.

GM still owns all those things even if they did dump the Pontiac brand.

Hey I would love to see new Fiero's as well, I just don't think anyone but a huge company or someone like I said before Carol Shelby or other rich folks could even attempt that.

First cars off an assembly line cost hundreds of thousands of dollar each to build just to pay the line workers for any car company because it takes time to get it right.

Just my opinion, so unless trump or some other rich guy did this it ain't ever going to happen, and then just how much are they going to charge for them if they did make them?

You don't really think they are going to sell them at the cost they were back when they were made originally ether now do you?

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-21-2016).]

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cam-a-lot
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Report this Post01-21-2016 08:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nobody in their right mind would even think of doing this for a mass produced, common economy car that is still widely available. If someone had the deep pockets and resources to do this, they would do it for a worthy car such as a Shelby Cobra, Gullwing Mercedes, any number of rare Ferraris, Super Bee... etc.

As others have stated, making new panels is the easy part. A new frame,mounting points, etc.. that's where the fun would start and there is zero chance of this ever becoming economically viable for a car easiily purchased for $5-10k even now
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Napoleon_Tanerite
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Report this Post01-21-2016 08:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Napoleon_TaneriteSend a Private Message to Napoleon_TaneriteEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you're going to design a car from the ground up (which even if you're trying to reverse engineer an existing Fiero, that's exactly what you're doing) why would you bother with a Fiero? Despite our biased opinion on these cars, they're not generally well regarded by the public, so your sales would be minimal. They're not widely considered to be a "classic car" despite meeting the definition in the law.

If I was going to clean sheet design a car, and I wanted a nifty mid engine toy car, the finished product would look a whole lot more like a Factory Five GTM or something along those lines. The Fiero is neat FOR WHAT IT IS, but not beyond that. There have been LOTS of advances in technology that you could incorporate in a clean sheet design that are impossible to do starting with a Fiero. Even if you started with a bare space frame that you could modify, you are still limited in things like fuel tank placement (so a drive shaft for AWD would be difficult or impossible), engine size and configuration (so you have to stretch the frame if you want to mount an in-line drivetrain) and so on. I'm not trying to bash the Fiero-- it's a neat little car. I wouldn't have one if it wasn't, but I'm also realistic about it.
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