I've been really wanting a Fiero as a project to play around with. I was on craigslist today and found two cars I really enjoyed. The first is a 1988 Fiero Formula with a leaky gas tank, and high idle, and the great price of $800. The second is an 86 that needs some gentle interior work, has a better paint job, new parts, and is half the mileage. However, it comes with an automatic transmission and twice the price tag.
First, the '88.
After chatting with the guy, he tells me that the motor has 100k miles on it, while the body has a whopping 220k, but what can you expect when the car is $800?
Of course, I'm still drooling a little bit with that price for an EIGHTY EIGHT. And its FORMULA. However, everything taken into consideration, this thing still has 220,000 miles on the body. Am I suspicious? Hell yes.
Here are the pictures from the ad.
One thing, I have considered is that Fiero bodies don't rust. That's just not a thing, so I won't have to worry about that. I'm worried that the secrets may be in the inner workings of the drive train, like its high idle issue.
Now, for the shinier competitor.
This is a 1986 Fiero GT. It sports 105k miles, has many new parts, and, after talking with the owner, only needs a little TLC with the interior.
Pics:
Now, the only real issue I see with this is that I want a manual transmission. From what I understand, the automatic transmission it has, turns to pudding if you do a lot of modification on the engine to increase its power. So if I got this car, I would have to go out and get a manual and swap it in, which frankly, sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.
Its also, twice the price of the 88, at $1600
I'm torn.
Both are running and driving. Cons: I'm concerned that the 88 will have more secrets than I anticipated, and the 86 will need a transmission swap. Pros: The 88 is AN EIGHTY EIGHT FORMULA, and has the transmission I want. The 86 seems to be in generally better condition than the 88.
TL;DR: Should I choose a well weathered 88 Formula, or a nicer 86 GT that will need a transmission swap?
I'd go for the 88 too--- AFTER I did a very through inspection for rust. You're not wrong to be concerned about the mileage, and chances are you will be dumping a decent bit of money into things like bushings, tie rods, and other suspension wear items, and that doesn't begin to address any potential engine issues. The "leaky fuel tank" has me worried that it may have a LOT of rust underneath.
Generally better condition? That '86 blows that Formula out of the water. If it is an '86 though it'd be a SE.
Avoid that Formula. You're right, while Fieros don't rust on the outside, rot and rust can form underneath, especially in the trunk and engine cradle areas. What's more like not to have rust? A Formula with 220,000 miles and a garbage paint job, or an '86 that's been maintained. Sure it's an '88 and even though they're generally considered the best of the bunch, it all depends on how well the car was maintained, and judging by those pictures of the Formula, it wasn't.
If neither of these tickle your fancy just wait or keep looking. If you want a good '88 you're looking at at least 3000 probably. That's what I paid for my Formula with 68,000 miles. If 1600 if your break the bank budget then go with that '86. A. Because you can get the price lower that 1600 just by making a cash offer and B. Because it looks to be in pretty good shape.
Don't get hung up on the Formula being an '88. You know what else it is? A piece of junk car that's been beat to hell its entire life. That's why it's $800. That's not even an amazing price for the condition it's in.
A car that's been maintained will bring you joy when you drive it, a car you have to sink money into because of all its gremlins will end up causing you nightmares.
Edit: I guess I'm the minority here, I still believe the '86 would be the better buy, as for the transmission, sure the 3 speed may not be the best after you start modifying things, that's mostly for engine swaps though at which point, yes most people swap the transmission as well, but for the stock 2.8 it's more than good enough to handle the mind boggling number of 140 horsepower.
[This message has been edited by Dylpro (edited 01-01-2016).]
I would be inclined to buy the 88, although you can expect to double or triple your investment, and spend a bunch of time, to make everything "right". This all wouldn't have to be spent right away, however.
As others mentioned, check for rust. This is especially true for northern cars. Pull back the sides of the trunk carpet, and look at the upper sides of the compartment where the upper frame rails are welded. Look at the floors, especially around the tin plugs. Look at the rear engine cradle, and suspension mounting points and links. Look at the front suspension. If there are holes rusted in the metal, take a pass.
While you're looking under the rear of the car, grab one of the axle tripots (tulips) where they plug into the transaxle. Shake it up and down. If any of that "up and down" movement is transferred to the tulip on the other side, the differential bearings are worn, and can become problematic. When you drive the car, if it grinds when you shift into third, it's a common problem, and a (usually) expensive fix.
A high idle is frequently caused by a broken EGR tube. It's a relatively easy fix. With that said, if the car is rust free, everything else can be unbolted and replaced. Everything. Finding parts for an 88 is not as much of an issue as some people would have you believe. I have had just as much trouble finding parts for earlier cars.
Edit - The 86 does appear to be in much better condition, but again, you need to check it carefully for rust. I live in the south, and pretty much any rust will be a show-stopper for me. If it will be a daily driver, and your only car, I would go with the 86.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-01-2016).]
I love '88s and will never own any other year, but I will say this.....since it is your first Fiero I would go for the nicest one. In this case it is the '86 SE. Drive it, enjoy it, tinker with it and when the right '88 comes along sell it to finance the purchase. I have owned more than 65 Fieros and I can honestly tell you that everything can be fixed easily and cheaply EXCEPT for rust & paint. Always choose the one with the better paint job and less rust.
The only thing I see wrong with the '86 are the headlight motors, which is a common issue. Rebuild the motors or swap in the Gen 2 motors and you'll be good to go.
Of course, you aren't necessarily confined to just these 2 cars.....you could keep looking for a nicer '88.
If you are only ever going to buy one, get the 88. But I agree with the prior post - ideally, buy the 86, drive it, enjoy it, and then when you feel like you know the car inside and out, buy an 88 and do a full resto or restomod as you see fit.
Based on where you are you need to inspect any car up there very closely for rust, especially in the hidden areas (upper frame rails) that you cannot see easily. It's hard to tell just from pics which is the better car. Sure the 86 'looks' nicer' and 'looks' like it's been taken care off but again, it comes down to the details (rust) really. Leaky fuel tank and high idle makes me thing the 88 has more hidden problems. However you stated you wanted a manual so it's the 88 or keep looking. You 'can' swap them over but it's not something I'd want to take on and I've been playing with these things for 15 years now. I know my limits! Cheap cars are usually cheap for a reason. Fieros are pushing 30 years old now so unless you buy fro an enthusiast (IE someone on here or you get lucky) you are probably going to end up dropping money on the car just to get it to be reliable so paying a bit more up front for a car in decent condition as a starting point may be worth while. Of hand I'd say, take your time and find the car that you want (manual) in decent condition (no/minimal rust) and nothing major needing to be done to it, even if it costs a bit more up front.
------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
You've been given lots of (mostly) good advice, although it's difficult for any of us to properly judge a car from a few blurry pictures.
One point I'll elaborate a bit more on... Don't buy an automatic if your heart is set on buying a manual tranny car. I bought an '86 GT with an automatic to drive while I was resurrecting an '84 duke with a transplanted 5-spd (and I've since gone on to get a 5-spd '88 Formula). Although the '86 GT is probably the Fiero I have in the best overall condition... I have never enjoyed driving it.
Regarding swapping out an automatic for a manual tranny... Unless you have a donor car sitting right next to your project car, forget it. There is so much more to converting an auto to a manual than simply swapping the transmissions. Tons of little things you'll never even think about will need to be replaced!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-01-2016).]
If you can, get both. If you think you can afford the $800 car, you need to be able to afford both. Drive the '86 & work the '88 as you can. You'll see soon enough which one (or both) you want to keep.
I've had an '84 SE 4 speed since new. I've repaired a few areas like the trunk ends, the battery tray area, replaced the seats & dash & a few other interior parts, the front cross member, etc... I like it because it's my original Fiero & it still works at 371,000 km.
I got a Formula 5 speed in 2008 with 5200 km on it. Showroom condition. I like it because it's like new, even at 25,000 km now.
I got an '86 coupe 2.5L 5 speed in 2011 for $800. Driveable but with a head gasket leak evident half way home (1 hour trip). Needed lots of cosmetic TLC but the original paint is really good & the space frame is excellent. Fixed the broken head bolt, then it developed a rattle. Lived with the rattle (using Lucas oil) for 1.5 years, then swapped in an '87 2.5L from a donor car that I sold parts from past the point where the engine was free. I like it because I fixed it and it works! BTW, wheels, seats, various things etc. added about $1600. to the expenditure.
Moral of the story: doesn't hurt to have more than one Fiero! Drive & tinker at the same time!
So far, I'm leaning towards the 86. You guys have mentioned that I can always get a nicer one down the road to play with if I wanted to, and I agree with all of you. In fact, I didn't even think about it before mrfiero said it.
As for the 88, I see a lot of people talking about the trunk area being notoriously bad. How easy would it be for me to replace the trunk area with something like stainless steel? It can't be that hard, can it? Take the original trunk out with a sawzall, hack a similar design out of stainless steel sheet metal with a mig welder, and slap that in as replacement with the original carpet or something else covering it. No more rust, looks just as good?
Also, I am in Michigan, does anybody have advice on rust prevention? (And don't say never drive it in winter) I'm not looking for this to be my daily driver, but it doesn't hurt to have some good rust prevention. Especially up here.
So far, I'm leaning towards the 86. You guys have mentioned that I can always get a nicer one down the road to play with if I wanted to, and I agree with all of you. In fact, I didn't even think about it before mrfiero said it.
As for the 88, I see a lot of people talking about the trunk area being notoriously bad. How easy would it be for me to replace the trunk area with something like stainless steel? It can't be that hard, can it? Take the original trunk out with a sawzall, hack a similar design out of stainless steel sheet metal with a mig welder, and slap that in as replacement with the original carpet or something else covering it. No more rust, looks just as good?
Also, I am in Michigan, does anybody have advice on rust prevention? (And don't say never drive it in winter) I'm not looking for this to be my daily driver, but it doesn't hurt to have some good rust prevention. Especially up here.
Think seriously about your transmission preference. Drive both. Myself - I'll never buy an automatic Fiero. Or any model with the lower body trim pieces for that matter - the Roger Smith tacked-on bits like along the bottom of the doors... A barely used yellow Formula was available near me after I got my barely used Formula 5 speed but it was automatic so I didn't have to think about it! Lol!
If you're handy with sheet metal & MIG welder, you won't have any trouble fixing the trunk. Fixing the trunk is like trimming your nails. Changing from auto to manual is like doing your own heart transplant.
[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 01-01-2016).]
So far, I'm leaning towards the 86. You guys have mentioned that I can always get a nicer one down the road to play with if I wanted to, and I agree with all of you. In fact, I didn't even think about it before mrfiero said it.
As for the 88, I see a lot of people talking about the trunk area being notoriously bad. How easy would it be for me to replace the trunk area with something like stainless steel? It can't be that hard, can it? Take the original trunk out with a sawzall, hack a similar design out of stainless steel sheet metal with a mig welder, and slap that in as replacement with the original carpet or something else covering it. No more rust, looks just as good?
Also, I am in Michigan, does anybody have advice on rust prevention? (And don't say never drive it in winter) I'm not looking for this to be my daily driver, but it doesn't hurt to have some good rust prevention. Especially up here.
The '86 could be rustier than the '88.....you don't know until you examine, and the frames on both cars are identical. Rust in the trunk is only an indicator of trouble......the real problem would be the rear frame rails, which are harder to see. There are many threads on this topic with pictures. Keeping a car clean is the best rust prevention.
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 01-01-2016).]
Just another thing to think about, while the '86 is twice the price, how much will it cost to get the '88 even comfortably driveable. My friend had a leaky fuel tank on his Accord which cost him $300 dollars to get a new one put in. Granted if you do the work yourself then you'll save some big bucks.
You say this won't be a daily driver, in which case maybe you should go for a car that needs some work, but as others have said you can hold out for a better one. I just hate the though of putting money into a 220k mile car. An '88 that even costs twice as much but still needs work can easily be found. I just think there's too many things I wouldn't want to deal with with that Formula. Consider the engine, he says it has only 100k on it. Does he have receipts to prove this? Who did it? Did he do it? Was it some hack job or did they know what they were doing? Does he have proof it only had so many miles when he put it in?
If you're looking for a car to tinker with that isn't a daily driver then by all means go for a car that needs some work. I just think one with lower miles and maybe even better shape can be found for a price close to $1600
Lets hypothetically say I went with the 86. What mods can be put on the car to make it more powerful without replacing the transmission or turning it into sawdust? What are the limits on that 3 speed auto?
Edit: OR, what are some stronger auto transmissions that can be swapped in?
[This message has been edited by Addition (edited 01-01-2016).]
#1 rule in buying a Fiero. Buy the best one you can afford. The time and money spent to bring it up to condition generally will cost you more in many cases than to just buy the better car out right.. Lower miles, no rust, better interiors are all must to find. They are out there just do not get in a hurry.
The fact you had to come here and ask tells me you don't really love either car enough to make the decision. The truth is the 86 is a much better car but you appear to want a manual. The 88 needs work and it will cost you more than to find a better car.
I own an auto and at the time I bought it new I had to have it as it was a daily driver and I was not wanting to have to deal with the issues of a clutch change later on. My auto has been no issue accept for a Lock up solenoid but I changed it myself and we are good. I could change my Chevelle clutch at home but I did not have the ability at the time to drop the transaxle to do a clutch. But if you want a manual get one in good shape and now one that needs a clutch, linkage or other needed rebuilds. Why by broken when you can buy working.
As for Rust. the first thing to do is pull down the carpet in the trunk. If the sides are rusted there is more under the body. I see you are in Michigan. There will be lots of rust there. Try to buy a car that was used in the summer or low miles. If not travel south. It will save you a nightmare later.
I would recommend based on your post you want a manual 88 V6. I would wait and keep looking the web has opened the door to many areas and you just need to be persistent and patient. Besides the longer you wait the better car you can afford.
This info is not just for Fiero but any collector car. The better one you buy the better off you will be in the long run. The only reason to restore a basket case anymore is if the car has some personal meaning or if it is one of 5 in the world. Other than that there are better options and you just need to take the time to find it.
Life is too short to buy crap and try to fix it up. I have seen too many people lose their shirts polishing a turd.
I would also keep your options open as to different years etc. You never know what you may find. Someone may have a older car with a suspension kit already on it and it will handle much like an 88. I have a Herb Adams kit on mine and it is very neutral. I was not the only one who bought one of these and there were other kits offered over the years.
Note a lot of people have been sitting on low mile Fieros for years. Now that the prices are getting closer to what many paid they are now selling them. You can often find one with less than 50K miles in good condition for a reasonable price.
Lets hypothetically say I went with the 86. What mods can be put on the car to make it more powerful without replacing the transmission or turning it into sawdust? What are the limits on that 3 speed auto?
Edit: OR, what are some stronger auto transmissions that can be swapped in?
The Auto is not going to self destruct. Generally they can hold up well as long as you do not put slicks on the car and try to do a hole shot ever stop light. Now if you are looking to add a lot of power then you can have a tranny build. Also folks have gone with newer tyranny's that have higher limits.
Note even the 4 speed autos are limited to 320 HP and Torque. After that they can break in the diff. The new cars like in my Turbo Ecotec keep it alive with engine management. The 6 speeds are stronger as is the Caddy transaxles.
I am sure someone can give you more info but the fact is any transaxle is not a Turbo 400 or M21 so you will need to get the better axles and may need to do some extra work if you want to wail on it.
I take that back the Transaxle in the Vette is good but I have not seen anyone use it in the Fiero. Not sure if you could.
87 GT. 4 Speed manual. 115k miles. Optioned to the max. $2k Price tag. I think I'm in love. Only immediate problem I see is that worn out driver's seat.
I bought an 86 similar to you last one shown, still plenty to fix but I don't mind. Hopefully you have a garage and a understanding wife if you have one. I also thought I would not change out the engine for quite sometime, I now have a 3800Sc setting next to it. My list keeps growing after looking thru this forum which included needs and wants.
The '87 could be a good option, but no matter which of the 3, it's not an investment. It's an expense. Just don't buy a money pit.
If you're adding more power, the stock tranny should be fine for any mods to the stock engine. If you're swapping the engine, swap the tranny to match.
Buy a car as close to what you want as you can. Then you can enjoy having it and spend money (mostly) on what you want; otherwise, you'll come to hate the car, and spend money on problems and making the car what you wanted to begin with.
The seats are just an order from Mr. Mike away from being perfect--but do those after all the dirty work is complete.
[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 01-02-2016).]
There are other Fieros in the background around #3 so whoever owns it is into Fieros. Probably a good sign that the car is in decent shape. Still need to look VERY closely, esp at upper frame rails but I am sure such an owner would understand. The seat is a common problem, just something you have to live with or address. A seat cover works until you can replace or fix. ------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
87 GT. 4 Speed manual. 115k miles. Optioned to the max. $2k Price tag. I think I'm in love. Only immediate problem I see is that worn out driver's seat.
Be careful with this one......the 87 GT had a 5 speed and different wheels. With all those other Fieros lying around, this car could be a frankenstein.
Be careful with this one......the 87 GT had a 5 speed and different wheels. With all those other Fieros lying around, this car could be a frankenstein.
87 GT. 4 Speed manual. 115k miles. Optioned to the max. $2k Price tag. I think I'm in love. Only immediate problem I see is that worn out driver's seat.
Lol! In love? Now it's clear - you're very anxious to get a Fiero! And you're not limited to $800 or $1600. That's all good.
The $800 one may easily cost that again to get it on the road. Maybe more... The $1600 one may be good to go, but you'll regret that auto trans every time you drive it, if you prefer a manual. The $2000 one looks funny with the Turbo-Tech wheels... Correct Fiero wheels (or custom) will cost some $$$ too...
Decide what you want, then look for it. It's quite likely that you'll be glad you did. There are lots to choose from.
Lol! In love? Now it's clear - you're very anxious to get a Fiero! And you're not limited to $800 or $1600. That's all good.
How long have you been looking?
I haven't been looking too long, per-say. I am only 18, so my options are limited and I'm willing to wait for the right car for me, which also explains my budget.
But why am I interested in a Fiero? Its kind of a long story, but first you need to know a few things about me. WARNING: Long
1: I have always loved things that are unique. I'm by no means a hipster, far from it, but if I am going to buy something as big as a car, I want it to be a minority. I want it to be weird. Unique. Something I love. I've ALWAYS loved that feeling of "I'm the only one here with this." I built my own computer with a specifically white case because almost nobody goes for the white case. I love music produced by Monstercat because its unique and enjoyable to me. I want a Fiero, because nobody I know has one, and they have a very unique style. Especially Notchbacks.
2: My dad owns the loudest, dust collector I've ever seen. As in the good kind of loud too, not 100% sure what's under the hood, but its packing something BIG. It is a 1995(?) Mustang GT. It has been sitting for a while, but I don't think he'd ever get rid of it. Thing was awesome when he had it out and used it. He still turns it on every once in a while and it shakes the whole house. He's always loved cars, and now his baby is our 2006 Toyota 4Runner, which he keeps in nearly mint condition, even with it being his daily. I loved helping him rebuild the suspension on it. I get a lot of it from him. The do it yourself attitude and a love for older, louder cars.
3: I go to Kettering University. If you haven't heard of it, it used to be called the GM Institute. The school is built around two things. Experience and cars. Every student takes 6 months out of their year, split into 3 month terms to be in co-ops, which are essentially paid internships. So at the age of 18, I'm already an engineer. I'm in A-Section, which means that I attend school during the summer and winter, and I'm on my co-op term during the spring and fall.
4: Being a school with a big automotive presence, it draws gearheads. LOTS of gearheads. So, as you can imagine, some kids bring/buy some sweet vehicles. I am not currently one of those kids, although that doesn't bother me too much since cool cars are still a minority and I get to ride in some every once in a while, which is fun. But all the same, I can't count myself as a gearhead. Even growing up helping my dad a little, I want to know more about vehicles so I can not only build something worthy of praise, but gain a better knowledge of the world I currently live in.
5: I'm joining a fraternity too. And one of the guys who recently graduated was not only really cool, he owned FOUR of the most beautiful European cars I've ever seen. Beautifully painted, one bright green, two wonderful shades of red, and an orange VW. The best part? He got almost all of them during his time at the university. On his work term money. Which told me one thing....
It was possible for me to do such things too.
I've always wanted a cool car of my own. I always wanted something unique. And, for the first time in my life, it was possible.
So I started looking. I gave myself a $2000 budget to work with. I'm a persuasive person, so I figure I can take things down a few notches in price. At first I wanted something older. Always loved 50's-70's style cars, but after meeting with a few owners and looking at their cars I realized that there were no great classics in my price range. Back to the drawing board.
With the same budget I began to look at (relatively) newer vehicles. Searching out the unique and weird. I want a 2 door. I don't like the boxier style of European BMW's and such, and Japanese cars are at most kinda meh. But then I stumbled on a Fiero. Nice paint job, a nice bright blue color. It was $500, and easily fixable. I decided that whatever I get, I want to get it just before or during school term. Unfortunately, the blue Fiero was sold about 4 days ago. However, while waiting, I began to look at more Fiero's. I began to like them more and more and more. Everything from the unfortunate GM story, to the incredible interior, to all the people hating on the car for really no reason. And the best part?
They're an amazing slate to work with. You want to slap some crazy engine in there and eat Camaro's alive? Its been done. Want more power and the ability to impress your friends? Here's like 87 guides on how to put a 3800SC in it, and without busting the bank. Do you really just want a Lambo without the cost? Yep, being done as well. The possibilities with the car are endless.
Its basically the perfect car for me. Its unique. Its fun. Its cheap. It sounds great. It can be modified. Its classic. Oh, and did I mention the leg room? I'm 6'5", that's a big deal for me.
So yeah. I want a Fiero. I want it to be mine. I want it to be me. I want it to be beautiful. I want it to be shown off at Fraternity rush events. I want to drive it to and from that great local diner with friends at midnight. I want to go on road trips with my lovely girlfriend. I want to inspire other Freshman just like that senior with the fleet of candy colored Euro's did to me.
So am I dedicated and anxious for a Fiero? Yes. Yes I am.
1) Beware of Fiero's that show neglect. Fiero's tend to be abused animals. 2) Before you consider buying any Fiero, get your noggin under the car and look closely for dings, dents, hits, etc. (this kind of damage is a huge sign as to how the car was treated and driven) 3) Buy with your head, not your heart. 4) Buy the best condition & lowest mileage Fiero. You will save yourself money & time in the long run. 5) Don't be in a hurry to get your Fiero. Kit
What mods can be put on the car to make it more powerful without replacing the transmission or turning it into sawdust? What are the limits on that 3 speed auto?
The best power for the buck is usually an engine swap, at which time you could also install a 5-speed manual transmission.
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