Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  New Pontiac Story in Automobile

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
New Pontiac Story in Automobile by hyperv6
Started on: 12-21-2015 08:13 PM
Replies: 17 (572 views)
Last post by: hyperv6 on 12-24-2015 09:24 AM
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5520
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-21-2015 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.automobilemag.co...-1988-pontiac-fiero/

I got a advance issue of Automobile so it is not on the new stand but the story is online.

It is a fair story and one of the better ones. I already noted the Lotus reference is not true. Also I noted the fires were not all that common but spectacular when they did happen.

Also in the new Ponco Perfection Magazine they had a interview with Fred Simmons Ex Pontiac Motorsports director and he spoke of the 2.9 Turbo and how Chevy killed the Fiero.

I have noted of late more Ex GM people are speaking up about the Fiero. So many people were involved but were afraid to speak but now with GM now being more open and the old guard mostly gone many are speaking up. I expect we may learn a lot more on the car now. For decades many were afraid to speak in public about the car.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Thunderstruck GT
Member
Posts: 2634
From:
Registered: Oct 2015


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 97
Rate this member

Report this Post12-21-2015 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

So many people were involved but were afraid to speak but now with GM now being more open and the old guard mostly gone many are speaking up. I expect we may learn a lot more on the car now. For decades many were afraid to speak in public about the car.


Not a lot of people know this better than me and I've known it for a long time.
IP: Logged
Thunderstruck GT
Member
Posts: 2634
From:
Registered: Oct 2015


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 97
Rate this member

Report this Post12-21-2015 08:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think I've seen that '88 and met Bill Shannon a few times. Not many loaded red '88 GT's with gold wheels out of Michigan. Damn nice car.

Thanks for posting
IP: Logged
84fiero123
Member
Posts: 29950
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 325
Rate this member

Report this Post12-21-2015 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I worked at GM assembly plants back in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s and can tell you what I have been saying all along GM was run by idiots, management was a bunch of drinking buddies that didn't listen to anyone but their bottles of whatever it was they were drinking.

Dad worked in the company car garage and even at that level management was a bunch of drunken jokes. More than one company car came into the plant garage with a half empty bottle of peppermint shnops or vodka. I met Roger Smith back in the mid 80, he was a total dick, to put it nicely and I am lucky I didn't get fired that day.

Management had this idea if the people are buying it why change it, they never looked down the road at anything but their own private IRA.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-21-2015).]

IP: Logged
Thunderstruck GT
Member
Posts: 2634
From:
Registered: Oct 2015


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 97
Rate this member

Report this Post12-21-2015 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

I worked at GM assembly plants back in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s and can tell you what I have been saying all along GM was run by idiots, management was a bunch of drinking buddies that didn't listen to anyone but their bottles of whatever it was they were drinking.

Dad worked in the company car garage and even at that level management was a bunch of drunken jokes. More than one company car came into the plant garage with a half empty bottle of peppermint shnops or vodka. I met Roger Smith back in the mid 80, he was a total dick, to put it nicely and I am lucky I didn't get fired that day.

Management had this idea if the people are buying it why change it, they never looked down the road at anything but their own private IRA.

Steve


And that's part of the reason GM went under.

If the Government wouldn't have bailed them out they would have went completely under and came back a better company. GM didn't learn a damn thing.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5520
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-22-2015 07:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I had past family that was part of GM through most of it's history.

I know some people drank there but so did Henry Ford II. That was just the nature of business over the last 100 years.

What caused GM's issues were multiple issues on many levels that lead to a culture and systems that used to work years ago but in later years failed to adapt to changes in markets and society as a whole. The Idea was we do it this way and we are too big to fail. The machine got to the point it could not change as the culture inside would not let it happen.

GM has had some of the most talented people and skilled people working for them but they could not change the system. Often these people had to give in or go away.

While post bail out not all things are fixed they are now on the way to recovery and change. For once they are back on the right track but it will still take time to fix much of the past sins.

I would recommend the book by Bob Lutz about what he found at Chryseler and the one of what he found at GM. The first one was Guts the second about GM is car guys vs. bean counters. It really pulls back the curtain on what he found at GM and how damaged their culture really was.

I have been lucky to know many well placed people inside GM and I have heard quietly many of the complaints of just what went on or where they were failing. Today I hear a totally new story from most of them where they are finally happy with the direction of where their jobs and their products are going. Case in point just look at the new Camaro. It is the greatest jump in just one generation of nearly any vehivle on the market as claimed buy an editor at Automobile. He said he was never a Camaro guy but when he took his first drive he was shocked at the change in the car. GM is doing this all their products but it takes time and money to do it so change is not going to happen in less than 10-12 year just to get back to even.

The Fiero program is an example where GM was their own greatest enenmy and how they fought between divisions more than they did with Toyota or Honda.

I would also recommend the book On A Clear Day You Can See GM. By John Delorean. He later regretted the book but today it really shows how far back the damaged culture went even back to the 50's.

The GM we have today is much diffetent. They still have work to do but we will see them continue to grow in strength and profitability with even better cars in a very difficult age to do both.

The one story that is very telling of the damaged culture was when Lutz asked why they could not make panel gaps like Hyundai? He was told they could but were never told to do so. It appears that unless engineers were not permited to do anything unless told. The engineer fixed the panels on the 08 Malibu in 2 months at a cost of around $200K for new dies and they had class leading fit. That is just one of many stories of internal failure.

I wish we could peg all this because they were just drunk but that is not it. In the big picture there was a lot of internal competition and a major lack of money in the late years. It was just plain old incompetence and poor management nothing more.
IP: Logged
Jason88Notchie
Member
Posts: 1687
From: Elyria, Ohio, USA
Registered: Oct 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-22-2015 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see you corrected them on the Lotus suspension. Why did they remove your first post?
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5520
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-22-2015 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jason88Notchie:

I see you corrected them on the Lotus suspension. Why did they remove your first post?


Not sure.
IP: Logged
Formula88
Member
Posts: 53788
From: Raleigh NC
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 555
Rate this member

Report this Post12-22-2015 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A reasonable and fair article, IMO. Even given the common Lotus error, it seemed very accurate.
The Fiero was special. It may not seem that way to most people today but just the fact that it existed in the market at the time it did was an achievement. The poor GM policy of releasing a car that's not quite ready and then "fixing" it in later years did a lot of damage to the marque. But it was an example of something special compared to the typical car. The space frame design, the SMC body, mid engined, even down to the higher output 2.8V6 with the engraved intake and valve covers. That was revolutionary engineering and styling touches that said this was no run of the mill car. You had to buy something comparable to a Vette in price to get anything approaching it.

And historically, it's a great example of 80's kitsch and style. Like the Member's Only jacket hanging in your closet - you still like it, but don't wear it anymore because it's not "in fashion" anymore.
IP: Logged
Jason88Notchie
Member
Posts: 1687
From: Elyria, Ohio, USA
Registered: Oct 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-22-2015 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

A reasonable and fair article, IMO. Even given the common Lotus error, it seemed very accurate.
The Fiero was special. It may not seem that way to most people today but just the fact that it existed in the market at the time it did was an achievement. The poor GM policy of releasing a car that's not quite ready and then "fixing" it in later years did a lot of damage to the marque. But it was an example of something special compared to the typical car. The space frame design, the SMC body, mid engined, even down to the higher output 2.8V6 with the engraved intake and valve covers. That was revolutionary engineering and styling touches that said this was no run of the mill car. You had to buy something comparable to a Vette in price to get anything approaching it.

And historically, it's a great example of 80's kitsch and style. Like the Member's Only jacket hanging in your closet - you still like it, but don't wear it anymore because it's not "in fashion" anymore.


Great post. Totally agree.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5520
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-22-2015 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

A reasonable and fair article, IMO. Even given the common Lotus error, it seemed very accurate.
The Fiero was special. It may not seem that way to most people today but just the fact that it existed in the market at the time it did was an achievement. The poor GM policy of releasing a car that's not quite ready and then "fixing" it in later years did a lot of damage to the marque. But it was an example of something special compared to the typical car. The space frame design, the SMC body, mid engined, even down to the higher output 2.8V6 with the engraved intake and valve covers. That was revolutionary engineering and styling touches that said this was no run of the mill car. You had to buy something comparable to a Vette in price to get anything approaching it.

And historically, it's a great example of 80's kitsch and style. Like the Member's Only jacket hanging in your closet - you still like it, but don't wear it anymore because it's not "in fashion" anymore.


Actually it was a case where like Pontiac did in the past they defied GM and tried to do their own thing with little money and no support from GM. Then the infighting left the car under developed and under funded. Pontiac went to market when they did the way they did because it would never have happened if they had waited.

GM did not want it because of Chevy not wanting it. Pontiac went ahead and made many mistakes too. They put it out there less than what they wanted and built too many in the first two years to sustain stable sales in later years once the GM 80 was canceled. There is still even more to all this but all parties made a lot of mistakes here and this is why GM and Pontiac failed.

Delorean broke rules like this on the GTO and got away with is because it was a hit that kept on giving. But yet he paid the price on other issues that he tried to force like his own 2 seater. He later was put in charge of the Vega a car he did not do or want and they crucified him over it. Pontiac did the same on the 455 SD TA till GM shut them down. Pontiac also did the 421 SD for as long as they could till GM again shut them down.

Pontiac was the division that took risk and was an engineers division. But the infighting prevented them from being what they could have been because GM management had no idea how to deal with them and Chevy feared them.

The Fiero styling still holds up well today. Look at most other cars of the era {Z24, Dodge Charger, Ford EXP, Mercury Capri} and few have done as well. I still bet people who look at my car and still do not believe it is a Pontiac let alone a 30 year old Pontiac.

I think this car is not so much a Members Only Jacket but more like AC/DC Back in Black Album. No matter how long it has been around it still looks and sounds good even if it was never perfect. It is an affordable classic.

To be honest with a modern engine, better panel gaps and small changes to the styling I think today it would sell very well even if no one had never seen one before.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-22-2015).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Thunderstruck GT
Member
Posts: 2634
From:
Registered: Oct 2015


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 97
Rate this member

Report this Post12-23-2015 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Actually it was a case where like Pontiac did in the past they defied GM and tried to do their own thing with little money and no support from GM. Then the infighting left the car under developed and under funded. Pontiac went to market when they did the way they did because it would never have happened if they had waited.

GM did not want it because of Chevy not wanting it. Pontiac went ahead and made many mistakes too. They put it out there less than what they wanted and built too many in the first two years to sustain stable sales in later years once the GM 80 was canceled. There is still even more to all this but all parties made a lot of mistakes here and this is why GM and Pontiac failed.

Delorean broke rules like this on the GTO and got away with is because it was a hit that kept on giving. But yet he paid the price on other issues that he tried to force like his own 2 seater. He later was put in charge of the Vega a car he did not do or want and they crucified him over it. Pontiac did the same on the 455 SD TA till GM shut them down. Pontiac also did the 421 SD for as long as they could till GM again shut them down.

Pontiac was the division that took risk and was an engineers division. But the infighting prevented them from being what they could have been because GM management had no idea how to deal with them and Chevy feared them.

The Fiero styling still holds up well today. Look at most other cars of the era {Z24, Dodge Charger, Ford EXP, Mercury Capri} and few have done as well. I still bet people who look at my car and still do not believe it is a Pontiac let alone a 30 year old Pontiac.

I think this car is not so much a Members Only Jacket but more like AC/DC Back in Black Album. No matter how long it has been around it still looks and sounds good even if it was never perfect. It is an affordable classic.

To be honest with a modern engine, better panel gaps and small changes to the styling I think today it would sell very well even if no one had never seen one before.



Well put especially the AC/DC reference.
IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 41376
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 179
Rate this member

Report this Post12-23-2015 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


IP: Logged
jscott1
Member
Posts: 21674
From: Houston, TX , USA
Registered: Dec 2001


Feedback score:    (15)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 415
Rate this member

Report this Post12-23-2015 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
...
GM did not want it because of Chevy not wanting it. Pontiac went ahead and made many mistakes too. They put it out there less than what they wanted and built too many in the first two years to sustain stable sales in later years once the GM 80 was canceled. There is still even more to all this but all parties made a lot of mistakes here and this is why GM and Pontiac failed.



Old GM, brought half baked products to market all the time. The Firebird in 1982 with the iron duke as the standard engine? The Fiero in 1984 with the same boat anchor for an engine. The GTO in 2004 with a nice power train, but so-so looks? The Solstice in 2006 with that ridiculous gas tank taking up 90% of the trunk.? It makes you wonder what were they thinking.

I am a GM guy from 30 years back but I admit their products were half baked for whatever reason. New GM is a lot better, but I haven't bought a new car since 2007 so I'll have to wait and see if new GM is a lot better.

IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5520
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-23-2015 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


Old GM, brought half baked products to market all the time. The Firebird in 1982 with the iron duke as the standard engine? The Fiero in 1984 with the same boat anchor for an engine. The GTO in 2004 with a nice power train, but so-so looks? The Solstice in 2006 with that ridiculous gas tank taking up 90% of the trunk.? It makes you wonder what were they thinking.

I am a GM guy from 30 years back but I admit their products were half baked for whatever reason. New GM is a lot better, but I haven't bought a new car since 2007 so I'll have to wait and see if new GM is a lot better.


I know but the reason most were half bakes was due to the fact they underfunded most of their projects.

The truth is GM was broke for a lot longer than most of you realize.

When I had the F body manager tell me why the power windows would fail because they ran out of money before they ever got inside the car in the 4th gen that is very telling.

The simple fact is since the 70's they did not fund most cars to the point they were ever finished with all areas.

GM generally pumped money into the engine and chassis but would simply not fund projects to get all they could get or all they needed. Reusd older parts and engines were utilized often.

As for the GTO that is a whole different story. Bob Lutz came in and saw Pontiac the performance division with out a RWD car? He had little time and no money so the best that could be done was bring the Holden in. It was a simple import as all the plastics had to be redone and the fuel system redesigned and tested. The money was so tight on that project they did not have enough to add the hood scoop and left and right exhaust till the second year. That came to me direct from Fred Simmons from Pontiac Motorsports.

I fully agree that their products lacked in areas and there were things they should not have done but not all of them were from one simple reason or issue. But they all could be traced back to the lack of money for decades. GM did not just fail in the last 10 years leading up to 2008.

To really understand this you really have to dig into the meat of the problems. The damaged culture of GM really played a big roll to the waste and mismanagement. The many things that were wrong could have been fixed but the system prevented it.

Lutz started the culture change when he arrived and Mary is continuing it today. Things at GM are no like they used to be. Most of the people Lutz called part of the problem are now gone and people are enabled to do their jobs as they are able. GM has generally had one of the best engineering department and tech staffs in the world but they were too often shackled by lack of money and authority to fix things they could or do what they could.

I had a GM engineer tell me Lutz came to them and said I have your back. Take the LS engine and do what you can to it. We got the ZR1 engine because of this and now the Z06 LT4.

Look at the new Camaro as it was done finally properly funded and not under duress. Same for the new Malibu. Just to save 300 pounds in a car like the Malibu is an engineering marvel as so few have been able to do it.

At this point there is n o reason to avoid GM product. With anything that is a post chapter 11 vehicle they are now done right. Even the early products like the 08 and later Malibu, Nox, Terrain and Cruze are all cars that have done well and were an improvement.

The new D2XX and Alpha platforms are world class and each product on them have really stepped things up. GM has still got some work to do yet as Buick is just now getting new product and the Cadillac line got the proper funding and management about a year and a half ago and what we have now is good but they want better and have $12 billion to do it with.

I know many people that have been at GM and today they are now glad they stayed as it is no longer the same company. I would recommend the books I pointed out by Lutz and Delorean so you can really see what really was going on and this is only the stuff they told. I have heard other horror stories from others.

I had family in GM and they were part of the old Sloan thinking and I knew how they believed. That worked in the old days but it failed GM in the later years. That is now in the past and I figure they have 5-10 years to get where they want to be. But in the mean time they will continue to build better products and will continue to make money and head in the right direction.

In other words no more W bodies sold for nearly 2 decades and engine kept alive for 4 decades with product underfunded and unrefined.

Yes it will continue to take time as the changes are continuing and no company can fix it all at one time.

My 08 Bu built under Lutz the first real car to see a fix has been a fine car. The Terrain has also been trouble free other than a rear strut replaced under warranty. It is the same strut most other MFGs use too.

My HHR other than the cheap interior has been a blast. The Turbo Eco engine and GM Performance group tuning is a blast. That car is every thing I hated with FWD and a 4 cylinder but once I drove it that thing is a blast with 300 HP at 23 pounds of boost with a full GM warranty. I do still wished it was RWD but that car is a blast to drive and will handle better than my Fiero.

But again the problems GM had were in so many areas and it was just more than not finishing a car. Read up and it is an eye opener. The Lutz book has been at Book A Mlllion from time to time at $5 and is worth the read.

IP: Logged
jscott1
Member
Posts: 21674
From: Houston, TX , USA
Registered: Dec 2001


Feedback score:    (15)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 415
Rate this member

Report this Post12-23-2015 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


I know but the reason most were half bakes was due to the fact they underfunded most of their projects. ...



I totally agree with everything you said... I was just bringing up a few examples... I will continue to buy GM and eventually will get to enjoy a new GM car. I've driven a few as rental cars and they seem fine. The Malibu with start/stop was cool, the old GM never would have pushed that as hard as they did. The fact that the Malibu is getting refreshed so often is good too. And the fact that a second gen Volt is coming is awesome. Old GM would have killed it after 5 years.


IP: Logged
84fiero123
Member
Posts: 29950
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 325
Rate this member

Report this Post12-24-2015 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
GM of the 70s, 80s and 90s was from what I saw just business as usual. take pay from the workers and give bonuses to management. I was there I saw it, every time there was a gas shortage they would go to the union and say we need to cut pay of the rank and file to continue to be profitable, yet they would always give the bosses bonuses during those years we gave back.

Buy the cheapest parts they could find from China, Taiwan, Japan and others, outsourcing was their work to places they had no control over. Most recent example is the Takata airbag BS. but cut pay for all workers except those at the top, those got yet another bonus.

I will however say that knowing what I do about how cars are made, keeping a car with many similar parts the same for 4 or 5 years back then was the norm for all of the automotive industry. It cost a lot more to redesign a car than it does to just change maybe one or 2 things inside or outside. So management just said, like they always did, ya more money for the people at the top.

We, the UAW members took benefit cuts over the years yet everyone says we didn't, they were not there, I was. I was there for the wildcat strike we did in the late eighties when we were scheduled to get the new Lumina minivan. they reneged on that and gave it to another plant, hey it was in our newest contract that our plant was supposed to get that van, we went so far as to get the Fiero superstructure, that the Lumina was built like. GM even put a state of the art paint shop in our plant in the mid 80s, robots, robots everywhere. They then decided we weren't going to get it, they were going to make it at another plant.

We had even had a big meeting in the early 80s that had a prototype of the van at our plant for a plant wide meeting to show us what we had to look forward to, sign the papers old man, (in other words sign the contract, we will make it there).

They told us for a decade before that van was made that we had the quality work other plants didn't. We would get the van.
we never got the van and they closed our plant down after lying to us, signing a contract and then reneging on it.

But no one believes me, they say we (The UAW members) always asked for more money anytime we were due a new contract, we didn't but you can't tell union haters that know everything about unions. They don't have a clue.

The stupid things the management of GM did, cutting pay from line workers who made the product and giving bonuses to management because, well they disserved it. What management disserved was a good swift kick in the ass. You don't keep a company healthy that way, if they really wanted to keep the company profitable they would not have given bonuses to upper management.

But then what do I know, I was just a lowly line worker, UAW member and in just being that I didn't know anything. Well I knew there was something wrong when we all took pay cuts during times when GM made record profits and management got yet another bonus. Yet they said we needed a pay cut to make sure they stayed profitable, Ayup right. And the next contract with even more record earnings they wanted to cut our pay yet one more time. It didn't work that time.

I have worked for company's over the years that treated their workers like people, GM treated us like number and a way to get their next bonus at the top. But hey I don't know anything, I haven't seen anything over the last 60 years, that's what many say about the auto industry, you don't know you were just a pisson in the cogs of the corporation. I know a lot more than most, because I was there, were they?

Steve


IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5520
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post12-24-2015 09:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


I totally agree with everything you said... I was just bringing up a few examples... I will continue to buy GM and eventually will get to enjoy a new GM car. I've driven a few as rental cars and they seem fine. The Malibu with start/stop was cool, the old GM never would have pushed that as hard as they did. The fact that the Malibu is getting refreshed so often is good too. And the fact that a second gen Volt is coming is awesome. Old GM would have killed it after 5 years.



If you want a taste of the new GM drive a new Camaro. The editor of Automobile Magazine said he was never a Camaro guy. He said he expected a little more this and a little more that when he drove the new one but when he drove the new one he said the car was the greatest change in a car he has ever experienced in just one generation. He said it drove like he took someone else's BMW M car.

The start stop has been around for a while on the Present Bu and the Regal. The hybrid was there but not as impressive as the new one price or performance wise. But this stuff takes time to develop as suppliers have to evolve the technology. GM has been spending a lot on this area and much of it is coming from the Volt. While they did not make money on the first gen it has given a line that has developed much more for other models.

GM has had the people to do this just not the management and the money to invest to do this.

People may hate it that Pontiac, Saturn and Olds are gone but the billions used to duplicate cars there was going to waste while they were making cars that were never refined to the degree they should have been.

I have seen the change and heard about it from those inside.

Watch Buick as they will become what Pontiac never was. They announced the White Space initiative. This will bring us things we never though possible at GM. The sharing of Buick China, Opel, Holden and Vauxhaull will bring cars that globally will carry volume but in each market provide those lower volume models you only could wish for in the past. My feeling is Buick will become Fantasy land
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock