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Tired of 1000HP Mustangs & Vettes by pgackeman
Started on: 12-10-2015 09:40 PM
Replies: 31 (762 views)
Last post by: solotwo on 12-15-2015 10:17 PM
pgackeman
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Report this Post12-10-2015 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pgackemanClick Here to Email pgackemanSend a Private Message to pgackemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Almost everyday I see something about a 1000+ HP Vette, Mustang, Hellcat, or 1973 Dodge on MSN.com or some other news site. My question is what's the most HP recorded on a Fiero?

Next question, does that much HP cause enough torque steer to suddenly put your rear wheels were your front wheels use to be? In other words, spin you around faster than you thought possible?

And last, would longitudinal engine positioning fix the torque steer?
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Report this Post12-10-2015 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im not sure on the max HP you could put into a Fiero. But, this guy built a fully modified drag car.

Fiero Draggster

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Report this Post12-10-2015 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why does it matter how much peak HP something makes?

You can make as much as you want to spend the money to make, whether it's in a Fiero, Corvette, Mustang, or Charger.

Of course you see videos about people with too much money street racing 1000+ HP Corvette/Mustang/Hellcat/Whatever, because they are new cars and that's what people with too much money buy. Drop a 1000 HP LS3 into a Chevette and nobody will care, because it's an old car that nobody cares about. Same with a Fiero. Nobody is going to care if you have 1500 HP in a Fiero.

Peak HP is a relatively meaningless number.
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Report this Post12-11-2015 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Peak HP is a relatively meaningless number.




I've always seen it as, torque wins races and horsepower sells cars.
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pgackeman
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Report this Post12-11-2015 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pgackemanClick Here to Email pgackemanSend a Private Message to pgackemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Why does it matter how much peak HP something makes?

You can make as much as you want to spend the money to make, whether it's in a Fiero, Corvette, Mustang, or Charger.

Of course you see videos about people with too much money street racing 1000+ HP Corvette/Mustang/Hellcat/Whatever, because they are new cars and that's what people with too much money buy. Drop a 1000 HP LS3 into a Chevette and nobody will care, because it's an old car that nobody cares about. Same with a Fiero. Nobody is going to care if you have 1500 HP in a Fiero.

Peak HP is a relatively meaningless number.



I (mostly) agree. But the Fiero community would benefit if someone wanted to get their mega-HP Fiero on MSN/CNN/FOX/etc.
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Report this Post12-11-2015 07:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pgackeman:
I (mostly) agree. But the Fiero community would benefit if someone wanted to get their mega-HP Fiero on MSN/CNN/FOX/etc.


Benefit? How? Raise the prices of used ones so making buying more expensive? The Fiero was not designed as a drag strip/muscle car. It is really a sports car. Good handling, good performance. Nah... keep the fiero out of the news, so we can enjoy them
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Report this Post12-11-2015 07:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How much power you have is worthless.

How much power you can get to the ground is what matters.

Big numbers to not make for fast cars but cars that can transmit the most power to the ground do.

You would be surprised how little power some of the fastest cars hold because they are the complete package. Just something to consider then putting a car together. An old street racer who always won taught me that years ago as he drove a fairly normal looking 9 second car all over town while other has more radical cars that struggled on the street and in races with him.
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Report this Post12-11-2015 10:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pgackeman:
I (mostly) agree. But the Fiero community would benefit if someone wanted to get their mega-HP Fiero on MSN/CNN/FOX/etc.


I don't know what it is you're watching, but a car doesn't need 1000+ HP to get featured on television. Heck, multiple members cars from this forum have even been in feature length movies.

What exactly would the benefit be to one car being on whatever show it is that you're watching? You want to see a fast Fiero? Here:


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Report this Post12-11-2015 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't forget: Power to Weight

Dropping weight makes what power you do have more effective, plus can help to improve handling.
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Report this Post12-11-2015 12:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


I don't know what it is you're watching, but a car doesn't need 1000+ HP to get featured on television. Heck, multiple members cars from this forum have even been in feature length movies.

What exactly would the benefit be to one car being on whatever show it is that you're watching? You want to see a fast Fiero? Here:



This is Scotts (Darkhorizon) Fiero. I have got to give him credit as he developed a formula for building a 9 second turbo Fiero on a budget. In doing so he captures the fastest Fiero title and is among the fastest group running the 3800 engine in the 1/4 mile. His car is far more go than show but it gets the job done. Its quite an achievement for a "backyard mechanic" who is not a member of a big bucks drag race team.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
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" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 12-11-2015).]

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Report this Post12-11-2015 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I always liked the look of this one...



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My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-11-2015).]

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Report this Post12-11-2015 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

How much power you can get to the ground is what matters.



Yeah..
torque
traction
and unbreakable parts.
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Report this Post12-11-2015 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rcp buildersSend a Private Message to rcp buildersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
JEEZ...... op ask a couple simple questions and not a 1 of you answer a single 1???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M13KrXYxE2k

Edit to add video.

[This message has been edited by rcp builders (edited 12-11-2015).]

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Report this Post12-11-2015 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
John Tinay had that Blue Monster.

I don't remember the exact numbers as it has been years but I believe it was in the 500's.

That car was not really drivable in my opinion.

Case in point. At the WestFest Truckee California he tapped the gas and it happened to grab traction for a split second and ended up through a fence.
He looked a might bit embarrassed to say the least.

For a street Fiero I just don't see really using(EVER) over 300 HP. That depends on the torque of course.

I had a 3.4 DOHC that was cammed and while it was just ok on the bottom end the top end was just stupid. The fiero even with the suspension and dropped to the ground isn't safe over 150mph.

I know we all really love power. I know I do, but I think having the right power in the right places is really the ticket.

I never had anything powerful enough to have longitudinal torgue steer that made much difference.

[This message has been edited by pokeyfiero (edited 12-12-2015).]

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Report this Post12-11-2015 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pgackeman:


Almost everyday I see something about a 1000+ HP Vette, Mustang, Hellcat, or 1973 Dodge on MSN.com or some other news site. My question is what's the most HP recorded on a Fiero?

Next question, does that much HP cause enough torque steer to suddenly put your rear wheels were your front wheels use to be? In other words, spin you around faster than you thought possible?
...


All new cars have traction control which can help people that do not know what they are doing. Bottom line is Fieros do not and really it doesn't take too much torque to flip the Fiero around.
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Report this Post12-11-2015 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pffft!

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Report this Post12-12-2015 12:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I guess I've been an engineer too long, I don't understand the appeal of building a drag car. All you are doing is proving that F = MA... Doesn't really require any more proof at this point.
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Report this Post12-12-2015 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for R RunnerClick Here to visit R Runner's HomePageClick Here to Email R RunnerSend a Private Message to R RunnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Several good points in this thread. My 2 cents:

- Knowing the GOAL of your changes is key. Anyone can build the most this or the most that. Depending on the intent of the car, who cares.
- The DYNAMIC tire contact with the ground is king. This is where the "total package" part comes in to play. You can make a killer 1000 hp vehicle with all the torque in the world. Now put motorcycle tires on it. Worthless.
- After all that is satisfied, HP to Weigh ratio is your friend. You actually can build a vehicle that is too light and that will affect the wheel grip. Depending on the competition, down force can be used to improve this.

Just the basics....


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Paul

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Report this Post12-12-2015 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for painandgain99Click Here to Email painandgain99Send a Private Message to painandgain99Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im tired of them being tempted to try to race me. As if my lil fiero has a chance. Although i did beat a lancer yesterday 😏

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Report this Post12-12-2015 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
I guess I've been an engineer too long, I don't understand the appeal of building a drag car. All you are doing is proving that F = MA... Doesn't really require any more proof at this point.


What's the appeal of building any race car then?

It's a race car. The appeal is racing it to win. As for drag racing, my favorite description is "If you've got time to turn, you're not going fast enough." Granted, Fieros aren't the greatest layout for building a drag car, so I wouldn't use a Fiero for one.
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Report this Post12-12-2015 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

I guess I've been an engineer too long, I don't understand the appeal of building a drag car. All you are doing is proving that F = MA... Doesn't really require any more proof at this point.


 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Granted, Fieros aren't the greatest layout for building a drag car, so I wouldn't use a Fiero for one.


If I have to explain it, neither of you would understand.

[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 12-12-2015).]

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Report this Post12-12-2015 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT:
If I have to explain it, neither of you would understand.


Clearly you are the one who failed to understand my statement.
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Report this Post12-12-2015 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


What's the appeal of building any race car then?

It's a race car. The appeal is racing it to win. As for drag racing, my favorite description is "If you've got time to turn, you're not going fast enough." Granted, Fieros aren't the greatest layout for building a drag car, so I wouldn't use a Fiero for one.


I guess.

I enjoy watching racing but drag racing I just don't get it. My favorite form of racing was IROC where identically prepared cars were raced and all variables were pretty much eliminated except driver skill.
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Report this Post12-12-2015 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
I guess.

I enjoy watching racing but drag racing I just don't get it. My favorite form of racing was IROC where identically prepared cars were raced and all variables were pretty much eliminated except driver skill.


Well, I don't really like watching any of the racing. Much more fun if you participate.

Drag racing is mostly driver skill, except for heads up shootout racing with cars where there isn't much in the way of regulations beyond safety things like a roll cage and diaper under the trans/oil pan. Most NHRA/IHRA classes are pretty well regulated, but the faster the car is, the more driver skill it takes to keep it straight and not blow up an engine or trans going down the track. Bracket racing may not seem like it takes much skill, but the car with the slower dialed in time will get a head start of the difference with the faster car's dialed in time, such that they should both reach the line at the same time, and it balances the race back out mostly to driver skill.

In pro classes, the trick is to keep the car under control better than the other guy and cross the line first. Occasionally the crew might find a tiny edge here or there, by changing the size of an oil galley by 0.001" or getting slightly better flow, or higher boost pressure, on the blower dyno. But for the most part, the cars are pretty equal and it's up to driving and track conditions. Likewise, in sportsman classes, the general goal is to go down the track no faster than a certain time, consistently. Wins are often by a few thousandths of a second, between the reaction time and the time it takes to get down the track. Once you've built a car that complies with the rules of the class, and have it able to run consistently down the track, it's pretty much driver and track conditions.

There's a lot more math to winning in drag racing, than simply F=MA though.
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Report this Post12-12-2015 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
my opinion is all forms of racing comes down to driver skills and car set up and the lighter you have the car the better it is going to go no matter if you are throwing it into a turn at 100 mph on dirt or going down the 1/4 mile and like other have said 1000 hp is not as important as power to weight ratio
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Report this Post12-13-2015 05:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pgackemanClick Here to Email pgackemanSend a Private Message to pgackemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have more fun going 0-speed limit in my (mostly stock) Fiero than other sports car owners have in their cars.

I'm not a horse power nut, but HP is what sells. Hence the desire to find a high HP Fiero posted on MSN, etc. When Fieros become more popular, yes they'll become more expensive but, they'll also have more aftermarket parts available. Two-edged sword, I know.

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Report this Post12-13-2015 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pgackeman:

I have more fun going 0-speed limit in my (mostly stock) Fiero than other sports car owners have in their cars.

I'm not a horse power nut, but HP is what sells. Hence the desire to find a high HP Fiero posted on MSN, etc. When Fieros become more popular, yes they'll become more expensive but, they'll also have more aftermarket parts available. Two-edged sword, I know.


One short ride in my car will warp your mind. The only real issue with putting a lot of HP/Torque into a Fiero, it that is going to get expensive on the wallet, with shorter life of parts.

------------------

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Report this Post12-14-2015 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
\m/ \m/
http://www.1320video.com/po...urbo-v8-lsx-swapped/

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Report this Post12-14-2015 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pgackemanClick Here to Email pgackemanSend a Private Message to pgackemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:


One short ride in my car will warp your mind. The only real issue with putting a lot of HP/Torque into a Fiero, it that is going to get expensive on the wallet, with shorter life of parts.



I'll be in the Detroit area this summer.
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Report this Post12-15-2015 09:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

...

There's a lot more math to winning in drag racing, than simply F=MA though.


Thanks for that well thought out answer that gave me some interesting things to think about.... GREAT POST!!

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What about a Fiero that put out over 2000lbs of torque to the ground?
See the answer Click for the answer
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Report this Post12-15-2015 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:




I've always seen it as, torque wins races and horsepower sells cars.


Yes! Being a past Medium Duty truck salesperson, Torque is more important.
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