Looking for a pair of Slammed reproduction lenses. Any of the 4 pairs he says he sold. Willing to pay $500 for a pair. ------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
[This message has been edited by Rodney (edited 01-20-2016).]
Lol that has got to be the most classless thing I have ever witnessed in my entire life. It's nice, having the comfort of knowing that when I'm 60 years old I won't be as pathetic as you.
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
Looking for a pair of Slammed reproduction lenses. Any of the 4 pairs he says he sold. Willing to pay $500 for a pair.
[This message has been edited by Slammed (edited 01-19-2016).]
Lol! The PFF Pompous Boor of the Year award competition is underway and the competition is fierce.
Most PFF members will recall one of the most prolific and helpful first responders to technical issues. While most of us were still reading and contemplating the OP's question or issue, Bloozeberry would be posting answers complete with drawings and pictures. We lost a great contributing member as he tired of the unrelenting lack of civility displayed by a minority of members. Being civil doesn't require much effort, except perhaps for... well... pompous boors. Even then, the effort is worthwhile; a lot more constructive progress can result.
Lol that has got to be the most classless thing I have ever witnessed in my entire life. It's nice, having the comfort of knowing that when I'm 60 years old I won't be as pathetic as you.
Changing my bank account - no big deal. Proving this is the biggest sham in the history of Fiero parts vendors - priceless.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
So I took a drive today to Hampel Thermoformed Plastics. http://hampelcorp.com I sat down with an 50ish in age engineer at Hampel Thermoformed Plastics and I showed him a GT lens. The first thing he said as he entered the conference room before he even sat down was "we can't make that" with a smirky smile on his face. So he sat down and we talked for a while. I told him how the original injection molded dies were lost. I asked him "is there any possibly way to vacuum form this?". I'll keep it short. The only way to vacuum form this is to have a multitude of holes in the die to pull the plastic down tight to the surface of the die. That in turn will show a multitude of dimples very visible to the eye as the plastic draws slightly into each vacuum hole. The second problem is that any clear plastic takes on a slightly milky color when heated and that milky white hue remains after the part cools. Probably something due to the reaction of the hot plastic and the surrounding air. He said the sheet of plastic is perfectly clear when they get it but will take on this milky white hue when heated and formed. He said you will never have that perfectly clear look of an injection molded automotive lens. I tried different questions trying to pick his brain. I asked about different types of plastic. I asked him if he has been to plastics forming trade shows. He said he has been to more than a few. I asked him if he has ever seen anyone form something like this with a vacuum die. He said no. Bottom line is you will never make this with a heated vacuum vacuum process and have a viable product eye appealing product. If it was colored plastic the defects are not that visible and is acceptable. The only thing he says works is gravity drapes. Some things are made with heated plastic sheets and the heated sheet is just set on the mold and gravity makes it settle down on the mold. But this is for something with very slow curves and something that does not have complex curves like motorcycle windshields. He says all snowmobile windshields are all made by injection molding.
I asked him about vacuuming it over a die with no vacuum holes. He said as the plastic draws down over the die it will, at some point, seal off pockets of air and you get bubbled up areas.
He suggested I drive down the road to a plastics injection molding company that makes lenses like this. He told me the cost to make injection molded dies would be easily over $50,000 for each side. Over $100,000 for the pair. I told him that would never happen in this small of a market and I did not go to this injection molded company. This engineer told me all I needed to hear.
I took my Ipad and showed him the pictures this Slammed posted and claimed to come out of a vacuum formed die. He said "I'm sure that is not the case".
All of this that I posted is easily verified. Any one of you can take a GT lens and visit any local plastic thermoforming company. Show them a GT lens and you should hear exactly the same as I have posted here. Anyone that wants to verify this is certainly very welcome to do so.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Thank you everyone for all the interest you've shown in my build over the past couple years... it's been a great fun listening to the advice, comments, and praise. But I've come to a crossroads with Cliff Pennock.
I asked him to rule on the permissibility of threads that focus on a third party's car either for the sole purpose of ridiculing it, or its owner, or threads that degenerate into the same. He has apparently reserved the right not to make such a decision since he stopped responding to my PM's. That doesn't sit well with me. Of course my frustration with this website isn't limited to this issue. This is only the straw that broke the camel's back. The false, defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, and threatening nature of threads and posts permitted in Totally Off-Topic reflect one of two things or both: the administrator's unwillingness or indifference to enforce his own terms of use. The reasons don't matter much to me.
A forum where blatant racism, hatred, and abusive content aren't actively moderated is like a garden overtaken by bad weeds where the gardener prefers the look of any plant over just having good crops. So my only option is to uproot myself. I wish the many friends I've made on this site over the years good luck and happy motoring. Please do not PM me since I won't be monitoring my mail any longer. No doubt I'll pop up on some other forum in the near future.
A forum where blatant racism, hatred, and abusive content aren't actively moderated is like a garden overtaken by bad weeds where the gardener prefers the look of any plant over just having good crops.
I could not agree more. People seem to completely overlook the fact that off topic is just that, not on topic with Fieros.
Something Off Topic would be: Did anyone see the new Camaro, and the way they did the exhaust routing?
NOT: So and so bought a Camaro, he is such a prick and I hope he gets killed in it.
.................. I took my Ipad and showed him the pictures this Slammed posted and claimed to come out of a vacuum formed die. He said "I'm sure that is not the case".
All of this that I posted is easily verified. Any one of you can take a GT lens and visit any local plastic thermoforming company. Show them a GT lens and you should hear exactly the same as I have posted here. Anyone that wants to verify this is certainly very welcome to do so.
There are 2 large thermoforming companies here and 2 injection ones too (Plastiver Inc, IPL , Begin Charles Plastique Inc and Itek Mouler-Maitriser-Innover Inc I will bring them my fastback lenses and get from them a written quote to see what canadian prices and also the other two to see if they can be done on a thermoforming method .. will post my findings here in two weeks or so ... stay tuned
I retired from one of the major airlines after 40 years and was pretty sure that I had seen various clear aircraft lenses that looked like they were thermoformed out of clear Lexan.
A quick Google search confirmed that my old timers disease hasn't progressed that far.
Wing Tip Lens
Solid state LED lighting technology provides major benefits to the field of aviation. In addition to providing significantly longer life for critical exterior lighting on aircraft, it also reduces power consumption. At Reliable Formed Plastics, we engaged with a client in the aerospace industry for the production of a polycarbonate lens for an LED retrofit light assembly on the aft of Boeing’s MD88 airplane.
Our technical competencies enabled us to reverse engineer the lens cover and create the drawing for a new version that was fully interoperable with the existing lighting fixture. After finalizing the design, we used the solid model to program our CNC milling machine to produce the custom vacuum thermoforming mold. We also designed and built custom gauges and other measuring equipment to ensure that the thermoformed lens covers were dimensionally accurate.
We constructed the lens cover from a 3/16” thick sheet of water-clear Lexan™ 9034. In addition to being light in weight, this polycarbonate also featured important material properties, including the flame resistance and high impact strength needed to withstand harsh aviation environments. When completed, the lens cover featured dimensions of 5.9” in length x 3.00” in width x 4.25” in height. Our technicians carefully monitored all phases of production to ensure we upheld the required ±0.030” tolerances. Quality assurance involved both visual inspections during forming as well as in-process dimensional verification using the dedicated fixtures and gauges we had built for this product.
Ongoing production of this lens continues at the rate of approximately 200 units annually. This aircraft retrofit helps operators reduce maintenance time and cost by minimizing downtime associated with light bulb outages. To learn more about this project or our many industrial capabilities, contact us today.
When completed, the lens cover featured dimensions of 5.9” in length x 3.00” in width x 4.25” in height.
I don't know anything about the process... but this might be an apple and orange thing comparing the creation of lenses that size to the relatively large Fiero GT tail light lenses.
How far are you willing to go to try to drag someone through the mud?
Even if Slammed was a troll, I'd still be on her side after all of this, she would still be the lesser of the dirtballs in these threads.
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
So I took a drive today to Hampel Thermoformed Plastics. http://hampelcorp.com I sat down with an 50ish in age engineer at Hampel Thermoformed Plastics and I showed him a GT lens. The first thing he said as he entered the conference room before he even sat down was "we can't make that" with a smirky smile on his face. So he sat down and we talked for a while. I told him how the original injection molded dies were lost. I asked him "is there any possibly way to vacuum form this?". I'll keep it short. The only way to vacuum form this is to have a multitude of holes in the die to pull the plastic down tight to the surface of the die. That in turn will show a multitude of dimples very visible to the eye as the plastic draws slightly into each vacuum hole. The second problem is that any clear plastic takes on a slightly milky color when heated and that milky white hue remains after the part cools. Probably something due to the reaction of the hot plastic and the surrounding air. He said the sheet of plastic is perfectly clear when they get it but will take on this milky white hue when heated and formed. He said you will never have that perfectly clear look of an injection molded automotive lens. I tried different questions trying to pick his brain. I asked about different types of plastic. I asked him if he has been to plastics forming trade shows. He said he has been to more than a few. I asked him if he has ever seen anyone form something like this with a vacuum die. He said no. Bottom line is you will never make this with a heated vacuum vacuum process and have a viable product eye appealing product. If it was colored plastic the defects are not that visible and is acceptable. The only thing he says works is gravity drapes. Some things are made with heated plastic sheets and the heated sheet is just set on the mold and gravity makes it settle down on the mold. But this is for something with very slow curves and something that does not have complex curves like motorcycle windshields. He says all snowmobile windshields are all made by injection molding.
I asked him about vacuuming it over a die with no vacuum holes. He said as the plastic draws down over the die it will, at some point, seal off pockets of air and you get bubbled up areas.
He suggested I drive down the road to a plastics injection molding company that makes lenses like this. He told me the cost to make injection molded dies would be easily over $50,000 for each side. Over $100,000 for the pair. I told him that would never happen in this small of a market and I did not go to this injection molded company. This engineer told me all I needed to hear.
I took my Ipad and showed him the pictures this Slammed posted and claimed to come out of a vacuum formed die. He said "I'm sure that is not the case".
All of this that I posted is easily verified. Any one of you can take a GT lens and visit any local plastic thermoforming company. Show them a GT lens and you should hear exactly the same as I have posted here. Anyone that wants to verify this is certainly very welcome to do so.
[This message has been edited by slicknick (edited 01-20-2016).]
So I took a drive today to Hampel Thermoformed Plastics. http://hampelcorp.com I sat down with an 50ish in age engineer at Hampel Thermoformed Plastics and I showed him a GT lens. The first thing he said as he entered the conference room before he even sat down was "we can't make that" with a smirky smile on his face. So he sat down and we talked for a while. I told him how the original injection molded dies were lost. I asked him "is there any possibly way to vacuum form this?". I'll keep it short. The only way to vacuum form this is to have a multitude of holes in the die to pull the plastic down tight to the surface of the die. That in turn will show a multitude of dimples very visible to the eye as the plastic draws slightly into each vacuum hole. The second problem is that any clear plastic takes on a slightly milky color when heated and that milky white hue remains after the part cools. Probably something due to the reaction of the hot plastic and the surrounding air. He said the sheet of plastic is perfectly clear when they get it but will take on this milky white hue when heated and formed. He said you will never have that perfectly clear look of an injection molded automotive lens. I tried different questions trying to pick his brain. I asked about different types of plastic. I asked him if he has been to plastics forming trade shows. He said he has been to more than a few. I asked him if he has ever seen anyone form something like this with a vacuum die. He said no. Bottom line is you will never make this with a heated vacuum vacuum process and have a viable product eye appealing product. If it was colored plastic the defects are not that visible and is acceptable. The only thing he says works is gravity drapes. Some things are made with heated plastic sheets and the heated sheet is just set on the mold and gravity makes it settle down on the mold. But this is for something with very slow curves and something that does not have complex curves like motorcycle windshields. He says all snowmobile windshields are all made by injection molding.
I asked him about vacuuming it over a die with no vacuum holes. He said as the plastic draws down over the die it will, at some point, seal off pockets of air and you get bubbled up areas.
He suggested I drive down the road to a plastics injection molding company that makes lenses like this. He told me the cost to make injection molded dies would be easily over $50,000 for each side. Over $100,000 for the pair. I told him that would never happen in this small of a market and I did not go to this injection molded company. This engineer told me all I needed to hear.
I took my Ipad and showed him the pictures this Slammed posted and claimed to come out of a vacuum formed die. He said "I'm sure that is not the case".
All of this that I posted is easily verified. Any one of you can take a GT lens and visit any local plastic thermoforming company. Show them a GT lens and you should hear exactly the same as I have posted here. Anyone that wants to verify this is certainly very welcome to do so.
Edited:
Awesome post that gave way too much detail including pictures that made Rodney look incredibly stupid
[This message has been edited by Slammed (edited 01-21-2016).]
I suspected Slammed knows whereof she speaks. I hope she doesn't incur any grief for divulging 'secrets'. It's certainly no surprise that her company wouldn't want her taking and posting pictures of process progress...
Nothing like those famous words "it can't be done" to motivate an innovator and inventor eh?
[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 01-20-2016).]
I've visited this thread a few times now and I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents FWIW
I'm the guy who makes the clear PETG headlight lenses with a vacuum forming process (home built machine)
Millions of clear plastics are thermoformed each day, and will remain clear. I'm not familiar with how the clarity is graded, but I'm pretty sure automotive lenses have molds with surface quality grades that are top notch. I have no idea if you can match that quality with thermoforming, but I think for the purpose of reproduction tail lights it doesn't matter. As long as there are no major defects people will be happy to replace their delaminated or cracked lenses.
Slammed seems to be going through the trial and error process which is good. The shape definitely isn't easy to vacuum form but I hope he can pull it off. I don't even have a GT but I'd like to see an option for these lenses. I tried to track down the original injection molds using my contacts in the injection molding industry. I received confirmation a long time ago that they are gone, probably for scrap.
Best of luck to Slammed, I really hope you can pull it off
Originally posted by Rodney: Changing my bank account - no big deal. Proving this is the biggest sham in the history of Fiero parts vendors - priceless.
quote
Originally posted by Rodney: That's fine but in my opinion some things needed to be said before we leave this person alone.
Hell, someone a couple pages back called you "Shawna", as no one can tell the difference lately between yours and his posts!
Can't make up your mind there Rodney... this is just comical! ! ! ! LOL!
quote
Originally posted by Rodney: This is just an ongoing fabricated lie.
quote
Originally posted by Rodney: Post some pictures to show us this is in fact real.
quote
Originally posted by Rodney: I have no doubt in my mind that the pictures you posted are in fact pictures of (slightly modified) OEM GM lenses.
quote
Originally posted by Rodney: Now that you have shown everyone this is all real are you going to help us track down the new owner of the molds so more lenses can be made?
quote
Originally posted by Rodney: My opinion now is this is all a scam. Prove me wrong Slammed.
I will say it outright, Rodney, you sir are a troll! Enough is enough! Are you just bored, and looking to stir crap on the forum?! You have bashed, name called, and run down Slammed almost since day one. Till a picture is posted, then you get in line and offer support, for a week or so and start all over again. Man, enough is enough already! You have acted like a small spoiled child in this thread, the original one, (The one you trashed so bad that this one had to be started).
To anyone that is sitting here saying "Don't talk to Rodney that way, he makes parts!" Read back in this thread and the original one and then be totally honest, remain unbiased, and tell me that any one that acts like this on the forum, no matter who they are, deserves ANY respect from the fine people on this forum.
Rodney I just read your summary of the discussion and From personal experience we never had results like he says.
We practiced extensively with different plastics and while we had numerous problems never did we get any milky coloring.
Final outcome was using Acrylic with 30/30 green tint and that never had any discoloring either. I think we probably applied a lot more heat and pressure plus we used Preheated moulds.
The trick to keeping the shape was to damn near make it liquid without burning it up. The ones we got to hot turned burnt and bubbly instantly no milk.
And people wonder why we don't see many new products for our cars....
I cannot figure out why so many people here feel they deserve answers from Slammed. Slammed didn't take money from anyone, didn't make any promises to anyone, she owes absolutely nothing to everyone here, so to act as if you've been crossed or wronged or cheated by her is insane. Do i agree with her approach to everything? No, but its irrelevant. To me it appears Slammed has had nothing but good intentions but situations and schedules change, I'm sure anyone who has a Fiero project can understand that. Of all the people with negative responses how many of you are prepared to actually buy them anyway? 10% maybe?
Sitting online and bitching is easy, actually doing something about your problems is not. Slammed has gotten closer than anyone else to making these lenses, so a huge plus to her. Slammed i hope you got a few sets for your own car out of the deal.
OUT F#CKING STANDING! You perfectly state what any rational human would think having seen this thread. Why the hell would anyone want to do ANYTHING for a bunch of prima-donna cheapskates?
[This message has been edited by timcha (edited 01-20-2016).]
Unfortunately, Rodney, your reputation is completely shot with me. Your behavior was completely unprofessional. No doubt that other potential product manufacturers will steer clear of this market now. I'm happy to say that I've never purchased anything from you...something that is unlikely to change now.
Blah, blah, bla....I like to harass people.... Blah, blah, blah
I've never done vacuum forming but I have used Petg in 3d printing. If I can print a part at 100% infill, polish it and come out with a very thick, very transparent part, there's no reason you couldn't do it with with thermo/vacuum vacuumed forming.
You're either lying about your talk with the "engineer" or you came across the one "engineer" working for a thermo/vacuum forming company that doesn't actually know what he's doing.
Your response to this is insanity, I don't know your age but I'm assuming your up there in your years. I'm being completely serious when I say you probably need to get yourself checked out. I've never seen this behavior from you before on this forum and this could be a sign of of an age related disease.
In my opinion, I think it's safe to say if someone were to make a product for the Fiero, it should be announced when it's ready to be sold. This would eliminate any negative comments and the customer can make his/her choice to purchase it or not. If anything was learned from this thread is no matter what you do you can't make everyone happy and there will always be negative people and positive people. Hopefully there will be announcements in the mall section for new products.
The acrylics are going up on ebay. Before I post them, does anyone want one? They are not tough like the PETG ones would be, about as hard as the originals with slightly better scratch resistance. These do not have nubs for clips or alignment.
I have two drivers as well. I'll get pictures of them tomorrow when I'm at work
quote
Originally posted by Slammed:
If someone had needed better pictures, I would have taken them. It didn't seem to be an issue. .
I would like to see more pictures of these lenses. Side and backs. Close ups. Good resolution. Also: where are these 4 pairs of lenses? I did not see them go up on eBay nor have I seen anyone here say they bought a pair and can't wait to get them. Just asking.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Rodney, I seriously think it's about time for you to phuck off
You keep coming back and posting more shitt and then acting like I'm going to do things for you. Every action I take, every post I make is very carefully thought out. I can shut you down at every step and love every moment of it. But you are making an enemy. Nobody wants that, right?
[This message has been edited by Slammed (edited 01-21-2016).]
Rodney, I seriously think it's about time for you to phuck off
So yeh or ney on my picture request?
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
We lost a great contributing member as he tired of the unrelenting lack of civility displayed by a minority of members. Being civil doesn't require much effort, except perhaps for... well... pompous boors. Even then, the effort is worthwhile; a lot more constructive progress can result. 
