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What Shops are Still Performing Fiero Engine Swaps by fierojunky
Started on: 10-23-2015 04:41 PM
Replies: 26 (1194 views)
Last post by: fierojunky on 10-30-2015 12:09 PM
fierojunky
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Report this Post10-23-2015 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierojunkyClick Here to Email fierojunkySend a Private Message to fierojunkyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's been a long time since I was active on this forum. I still have my 1987SE that I bought when I was 16, 20 years ago now. I have to move it out of the garage I have been storing it in. Now the time as come to either fix it and enjoy it or say goodbye to an old friend. As I contemplate my next move, what shops are performing engine swaps these days and what are the popular swaps?
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Report this Post10-23-2015 05:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Popular?
3.4
3800sc
SBC
LS
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Report this Post10-23-2015 05:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for busa_poweredClick Here to Email busa_poweredSend a Private Message to busa_poweredEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I talked to a shop local here and they are going to do a LS4 transplant as soon as I get some more money!
That is all their shop does is LS conversions.

I am paying off a car this month and will use that money to help finance it!!!
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Report this Post10-23-2015 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by busa_powered:

I talked to a shop local here and they are going to do a LS4 transplant as soon as I get some more money!
That is all their shop does is LS conversions.

I am paying off a car this month and will use that money to help finance it!!!


You mean save up for it, right? I wouldn't recommend financing anything Fiero-related.

Wherever you choose to have a swap done, be very careful. Lots of places don't know how to work on a Fiero.
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Report this Post10-23-2015 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:


You mean save up for it, right? I wouldn't recommend financing anything Fiero-related.

.


Why not? People finance depreciating assets all the time. Most notably diamonds. Every try to sell a used diamond. It's worth about 5% of what you paid for it the moment you walk out the store.
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Report this Post10-23-2015 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Why not? People finance depreciating assets all the time. Most notably diamonds. Every try to sell a used diamond. It's worth about 5% of what you paid for it the moment you walk out the store.


Uh, and if you miss a payment, you have to go back to your fiancee and take the ring away? If it's only worth 5% of what you paid for it, who in their right mind would loan you the money? Sounds like a poor risk for the financier.

Besides, you can synthetically make whatever diamond you want for, um, very little, now with serial number & flaws. Now, if the bands were as easy.

I would've used the example of cell phones, rather than diamonds.

In any case, a diamond usually doesn't require costly repairs post purchase. If you finance a Fiero, how will you afford to fix it? It'll likely just sit and get worse. Fieros aren't very expensive. If you can't afford ond, you probably have other priorities that are more important. Not to offend anyone. Most Fiero owners aren't rich, and I applaud those Fiero owners who are able to maintain their Fiero on a limited budget. I just wouldn't wish for anyone to get in a fix where a choice had to be made to make the Fiero payment or make the grocery/utility/home payment.
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Report this Post10-23-2015 11:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Why not?


Because taking a loan to buy a Fiero or customize a Fiero is retarded.... I had my car on eBay recently, and I had 70 year old guy contact me who wanted to buy it. He is retired, and was trying to find a bank to loan him money to buy my car. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

These are toys, not an investment. If a person "must" borrow money, it should be for something worthwhile like a home or an education. Not for a 26 year old glorified Chevette.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 01:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LorenBatemanClick Here to Email LorenBatemanSend a Private Message to LorenBatemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
He said he was paying off a car,,not the car
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Report this Post10-24-2015 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Eh, financing is fine if you know what you are doing and come out with a better credit rating than you go in with. If you're trying to get more than about $5000-7500 though, and you don't have enough money in the bank or enough income, it might be difficult to manage.

Back to the OP's question, yes there are some shops that will perform swaps, though not many. How far are you willing to take your car to get the work done? You're going to spend plenty of money just to transport the car somewhere and back, if there aren't any shops near you that can do the work.

How much do you want to spend? If you can only spend $2K instead of $5K or $10K, your engine choices are much more limited. If you're paying a shop to do it, you're probably going to be paying at least $100/hr for labor. If it takes them a full 40 hours to complete it, that's $4000 just in labor. You'll have to add the cost of the engine and any parts, fluids, and tuning, on top of that labor cost.

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Report this Post10-24-2015 09:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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quote
Originally posted by LorenBateman:

He said he was paying off a car,,not the car


He said once another car is paid off, he'll be able to use the money (presumably the additional remaining income from not having to pay for the one car note) to help finance the swap in the Fiero.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The number of shops doing Fiero engine swaps is now pretty small but if you are willing to pay a fair price there are several forum members that still do them. I have done several but the value of the car relative to the cost of the swap is something that should play into your decision. Engine swaps require hours of installation, fabrication work, many new parts are needed and shops make more money doing repair work. If you do not mind paying $9,000-$17,000 for a swap , I am certain that you will find a source. The LS4 is one of the more expensive engine swaps. It all depends on what you want and what you are willing to pay.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:


Uh, and if you miss a payment, you have to go back to your fiancee and take the ring away? If it's only worth 5% of what you paid for it, who in their right mind would loan you the money? Sounds like a poor risk for the financier.
.


You ever heard of an unsecured loan? They loan you money with no collateral. If you don't pay they come and break your legs... I mean ruin your credit score.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cam-a-lot:


Because taking a loan to buy a Fiero or customize a Fiero is retarded.... I had my car on eBay recently, and I had 70 year old guy contact me who wanted to buy it. He is retired, and was trying to find a bank to loan him money to buy my car. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

These are toys, not an investment. If a person "must" borrow money, it should be for something worthwhile like a home or an education. Not for a 26 year old glorified Chevette.


BTW it's not politically correct to say "retarded" anymore.

And this is slightly off-topic, but people finance "toys" all the time, like vacations, and mink coats, diamonds and jewelry. Not because they are investments, but because they don't have the cash and they want to buy whatever it is they want to buy.

I say if you have good credit, it's not our business if you want to finance an engine swap or not. This cash only notion of engine swapping is not logical to me.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 02:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Popular?
3.4
3800sc
SBC
LS


4.9

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Report this Post10-24-2015 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierojunkyClick Here to Email fierojunkySend a Private Message to fierojunkyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Back to the OP's question, yes there are some shops that will perform swaps, though not many. How far are you willing to take your car to get the work done? You're going to spend plenty of money just to transport the car somewhere and back, if there aren't any shops near you that can do the work.

How much do you want to spend?


Transport is the least of my concerns. I have a truck and trailer and would be willing to incorporate transport into a vacation. Cost of the swap is a consideration; however, at this point I'm mainly interested in researching any reputable Fiero shops. I remember how much of a hassle it was to find a local garage willing to do routine work on it.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Can anyone name a shop (or member)? It seems to me that a lot of the big players are now out of the game i.e. Archie, Fiero Factory, and there was a place in Central PA that I can't remember the name of.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


4.9


I assume Olejoedad is still doing this swap, and I would recommend him.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierojunky:


Thanks everyone for the replies. Can anyone name a shop (or member)? It seems to me that a lot of the big players are now out of the game i.e. Archie, Fiero Factory, and there was a place in Central PA that I can't remember the name of.


BTW Archie is no longer doing turn-key swaps but his kits are still available for sale. If you want to go that route maybe you find a mechanic that can use his kit?
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Report this Post10-24-2015 04:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierojunky:
Transport is the least of my concerns. I have a truck and trailer and would be willing to incorporate transport into a vacation. Cost of the swap is a consideration; however, at this point I'm mainly interested in researching any reputable Fiero shops. I remember how much of a hassle it was to find a local garage willing to do routine work on it.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Can anyone name a shop (or member)? It seems to me that a lot of the big players are now out of the game i.e. Archie, Fiero Factory, and there was a place in Central PA that I can't remember the name of.


Outlaws Rod & Custom in Norfolk, VA is not a "Fiero shop" but they do good work, and have done a Fiero or two in the past. One of the three LS3 swaps in the local club had his swap done there. http://www.outlawsrc.com/

Sinister Performance in Fort Wayne, IN area also does good Fiero swaps. I think they have a pretty long wait list though.

For any place doing quality swaps, you're probably going to find there is a wait list to get a swap done.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 05:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
BTW it's not politically correct to say "retarded" anymore.

And this is slightly off-topic, but people finance "toys" all the time, like vacations, and mink coats, diamonds and jewelry. Not because they are investments, but because they don't have the cash and they want to buy whatever it is they want to buy.

I say if you have good credit, it's not our business if you want to finance an engine swap or not. This cash only notion of engine swapping is not logical to me.


Soon, it won't be politically correct to use full words or spell them correctly, because it may hurt the feelings of those who can't spell and can't read/understand big words.

Just because [other] people do it doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just because an entity has good credit doesn't mean it should be maxed out. Compound interest is a b**ch to pay back.

The Fiero Factory did swaps, last I spoke with them, but they seem to mainly want to do 4.9 swaps. I can't speak as to the quality of the swap, or the cost.

There was a Meineke that posted on here about swaps, but that thread seems to have been forgotten by its OP.

The big problem isn't just getting the swap done, or the transportation to have it done, or even proper documentation of the swap. The problem is maintaining it afterward. It's hard to find a place that works on Fieros--particularly those with an engine swap. And it isn't just Fieros. My boss has a vehicle with a custom 454. He took it in for some issue, and they replaced the fuel pump with the stock one, which wasn't adequate. Many mechanics are whatever you want to term it, but they apparently need their hands held through the simplest tasks.
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Report this Post10-24-2015 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

...

The big problem isn't just getting the swap done, or the transportation to have it done, or even proper documentation of the swap. The problem is maintaining it afterward. It's hard to find a place that works on Fieros--particularly those with an engine swap. And it isn't just Fieros. My boss has a vehicle with a custom 454. He took it in for some issue, and they replaced the fuel pump with the stock one, which wasn't adequate. Many mechanics are whatever you want to term it, but they apparently need their hands held through the simplest tasks.


I agree with you 110% on this... how you maintain the car after a swap is a good question. Unless your builder is local or answers his or her phone 24/7 how are you going to fix it when something breaks? Local mechanics that want to work on it will be hard to find. In this case an older more basic engine would be easier to maintain, but the custom wiring is going to be a challenge for anyone other than the builder to troubleshoot and diagnose.
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Report this Post10-27-2015 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I still do swaps, I have mainly done 3.4s about 30+, about to start my first 3800 swap, I have done a Quad 4, an 87 duke into an 84, rebuilt many dukes and 2.8s, (doing a 2.8 now) we never stopped, just ran out of customers, my bad though, when I fix a car it usually doesn't brake. We are still a full Fiero shop/parts yard/club yard. No one ever seems to hear of us though. I only really work on Fieros as it is my hobby and I hate seeing people get ripped off by other shops, we have over 190 club members and I keep their Fieros on the road, and help put more back one the road as well. We used to have over 100 Fieros in the yard at one time, due to downsizing we are down to about 30 ish. I even tried to sell the "rust free" frames on here, sold one, the rest got scrapped cause no one wanted them. The Fiero business is dwindling.

Edit to add:Who the hell charges $9,000 to $17,000 for a swap? and can sleep at night?
------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined '87 Duke (Sold)
'87 Quad 4 H.O.
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-28-2015).]

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Report this Post10-28-2015 06:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SilvertownClick Here to Email SilvertownSend a Private Message to SilvertownEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


BTW it's not politically correct to say "retarded" anymore.

And this is slightly off-topic, but people finance "toys" all the time, like vacations, and mink coats, diamonds and jewelry. Not because they are investments, but because they don't have the cash and they want to buy whatever it is they want to buy.

I say if you have good credit, it's not our business if you want to finance an engine swap or not. This cash only notion of engine swapping is not logical to me.


I never thought I would see a day when Texas became a bastion of political correctness and Canadians expressing their 1st amendment rights. How retarded is that. Let's ask mongo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10
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Report this Post10-28-2015 07:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I still do swaps, I have mainly done 3.4s about 30+, about to start my first 3800 swap, I have done a Quad 4, an 87 duke into an 84, rebuilt many dukes and 2.8s, (doing a 2.8 now) we never stopped, just ran out of customers, my bad though, when I fix a car it usually doesn't brake. We are still a full Fiero shop/parts yard/club yard. No one ever seems to hear of us though. I only really work on Fieros as it is my hobby and I hate seeing people get ripped off by other shops, we have over 190 club members and I keep their Fieros on the road, and help put more back one the road as well. We used to have over 100 Fieros in the yard at one time, due to downsizing we are down to about 30 ish. I even tried to sell the "rust free" frames on here, sold one, the rest got scrapped cause no one wanted them. The Fiero business is dwindling.

Edit to add:Who the hell charges $9,000 to $17,000 for a swap? and can sleep at night?


See? Who knew you did swaps? What is a good price for a swap?
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post10-28-2015 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Who the hell charges $9,000 to $17,000 for a swap? and can sleep at night?


I guess that it all depends on what type of powertrain and features that you want. The notorious Fast Fieros charged $13.000 for a 3800SC swap, Ed Parks at the Fiero Factory was getting $8- $9K for the 4.9L swaps towards the end of when they were doing them. I believe that when Archie was doing the LS3 swaps he was near the high end of the price range above. I would venture to say that the LS4 swaps are also costly. Factor in the demographics, labor, options and cost of all of the extra parts and swaps could run in the range above.
An engine swap requires a new harness, custom exhaust system, custom axles (or flywheel and clutch) , engine mounts/brackets, ignition wires, fuel pump, gasoline lines, hoses, belts, tensioner, cradle bushings, alt bracket, custom dog bone mount, re-programmed PCM/ECM, some new sensors, air hose coupling/CAI, trans hose (auto) , water outlet, deck lid strut, hose clamps, a few new gaskets/seals, possibly new hubs, new battery cables, and some other fabricated parts, then add in your engine cost and a week or two of labor. I believe that the engine swap business is soft due to a the high cost and a very weak economy .


------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 10-28-2015).]

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Archie
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Report this Post10-28-2015 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageClick Here to Email ArchieSend a Private Message to ArchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Actually, that's not 100% correct.

It is correct that I don't have me former crew but.....

I've got a pretty good former customer here that did a great job on his fiero Fiero swap.

He has a small shop doing V-8 swaps to early chevy pick-ups.

Him & I get together on my Fiero swaps. We are working on the 3rd. one right now.

In fact we are working on it today.

Thanks

Archie

 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


BTW Archie is no longer doing turn-key swaps but his kits are still available for sale. If you want to go that route maybe you find a mechanic that can use his kit?


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Report this Post10-30-2015 01:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:

Actually, that's not 100% correct.

It is correct that I don't have me former crew but.....

I've got a pretty good former customer here that did a great job on his fiero Fiero swap.

He has a small shop doing V-8 swaps to early chevy pick-ups.

Him & I get together on my Fiero swaps. We are working on the 3rd. one right now.

In fact we are working on it today.

Thanks

Archie



Cool I didn't realize that, thanks for the update.
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Report this Post10-30-2015 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierojunkyClick Here to Email fierojunkySend a Private Message to fierojunkyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


4.9


Thanks for the PM. I sent you one back.
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