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Anyone have a 87-88 2.5 L4 lying around? by Rodney
Started on: 10-16-2015 04:06 AM
Replies: 19 (444 views)
Last post by: Rodney on 10-24-2015 05:30 PM
Rodney
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Report this Post10-16-2015 04:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm working on a replacement tensioner for this engine. The factory tensioner has been unavailable for a long time now. I could use some help with pictures to show some areas to check for clearance concerns etc. Wondering if anyone has a 87-88 L4 sitting around with the factory tensioner still on it.

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Report this Post10-16-2015 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Until very recently RA had them in stock.
RA suddenly ran out and TFS jack their price to ~$300 next day. Even at that seem to be gone now.

Note that tensioner is also WP hole cover/plug... hole there when engine use FWD and inline setups.
See my Cave, Serpent Belt

I have old dead one shown in cave page and a good used one I'm saving.
PM me and I see if I can help.

You have to match Shape of the whole part close...
Top must clear the head and maybe dog bone bracket
bottom area must clear timing cover and alt fan.

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Rodney
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Report this Post10-16-2015 04:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I pretty much know what I am trying to do will work. I just need some pictures to check for clearances concerns etc. And with that in mind anyone that has an 88 L4 Fiero could help me out.

I know there are no issues on the timing cover side (bottom). Just the top between the alternator and the spring loaded tensioner part. The picture I have of an 87/88 L4 shows the cylinder head is even with the engine block. If that is true and there is nothing else in that area that might get in the way I can make this and start to sell it soon.

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Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
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Report this Post10-17-2015 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
87-88 head have parts/brackets attach to the head above the tensioner.
If you picture only show the long block (block w/ head) then you missing this data.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi..._Duke_engine#Tech_IV
Picture shows Fiero setup but missing Dog Bone bracket. (click picture)

Don't sure if DB bracket goes over the T arm for the alt a bit. I don't have a picture of this.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/067852.html

Many FWD cars have PS pump where fiero alt is. Alt is on top of WP. WP has smooth pulley and spins "backward."
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Rodney
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Report this Post10-18-2015 07:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Worked on this yesterday some. I should have this kit available by the end of the year or so. Could use some pictures of the top of the idler assembly on the engine and some looking down showing the back side. I do not think there is anything in the way. Some pictures would let me know for sure.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post10-18-2015 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Only thing near idle pulley is timing cover when has installed a belt. wiki picture shows this but doesn't show how close they are.

Close enough when arm or pulley is worn/bad the pulley can eat a hole in the cover.
I didn't take picture of this issue when I change the motor last year. In my case pulley didn't cut quite thru yet.

OE tensioner have metal "spring" part attach to the tensioner body that, I guess, is to make noise when that happens. (Like a squealer on most brake pads.) It goes on metal "post" above bottom bolt. The metal is pointed left toward Timing cover and most have to remove this to remove the cover. is not a big issue... just the "spring" goes over the cover flange and you can't get cover off w/ spring on.
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Report this Post10-18-2015 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Too add
This shows most things attach to head...
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

From http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096021.html

DB bracket and factory hook point barely clears the tensioner.
Post for the"spring" in right below pulley mount point here. The spring itself is missing. (Many are lost for doing timing gear work etc which has be done for that motor.)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-18-2015).]

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Rodney
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Report this Post10-18-2015 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That picture helps a little. What I really need is a picture of the top and back side.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post10-19-2015 01:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Actually that "arm" pivot looks bad. Isn't centered to rest of body.

You can find FWD units but need to mod them to work in Fiero. FWD belt map is different as noted above and tensioner might not work at all.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-19-2015).]

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Report this Post10-19-2015 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSClick Here to Email Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have one. I am out of town right now but will get you some pictures this weekend.

[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 10-19-2015).]

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TopNotch
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Report this Post10-20-2015 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
PM sent.
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Report this Post10-20-2015 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tensioner front.


Tensioner back. A gasket fits in the circular recession.


It covers the hole shown in the front of the block.


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Report this Post10-20-2015 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Above pictures are missing the gasket...
To view the gasket... Lookup 87 olds cutlass cierra 2.5l, belt tensioner.
Bracket end is made for FWD cars as noted above. Bracket hold PS pump.

many outlets have them in stock under "External Engine"

I'm not sure you can use FWD units even when moded the bracket end. Could be FWD idle pulley w/ a belt is too close or hits WP pulley on Fiero. (FWD moves idle arm and points to WP.)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-20-2015).]

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Rodney
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Report this Post10-20-2015 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a OEM GM tensioner here. I need a picture of it installed in a car from the top and back side.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post10-20-2015 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

I need a picture of it installed in a car from the top and back side.



Sorry, I can't do that on my car. The over-sized SD4 valve cover I have on my duke, along with the fuel lines and a cable, block the view from the top.
I guess I should have taken a picture from the top while it was like this...

[This message has been edited by TopNotch (edited 10-20-2015).]

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Report this Post10-20-2015 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
I have a OEM GM tensioner here. I need a picture of it installed in a car from the top and back side.

Top ok but from the back? Back relative to what?

Alt, Dog bone, Intake Manifold and WP blocks most viewing angles.
tensioner fills up most off space between block and belt.

Main fail is "bearing" on the "arm" not the pulley bearing. Bad arm bearing makes arm to tip then pulley tracks bad and that can eat the belt.
(If you have a dead pulley bearing, can get the pulley w/ bearing for ~$18 at most stores. It's a Very common part and many local stores have them in stock.)

As noted above the tensioner must clear the head and parts attach to it. The big plug hole in the head is Tstant outlet for use on inline setup like trucks. (WP pulley is not installed on spare engine.)
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE


In the car you can't see or get access to the back of tensioner. You have to remove the DB and more from the top. Oil Filter at minimum from the bottom. Just installing a belt is a pain because you only get a very small space to rotate the idle pulley down. Even then is how I broke the battery plastic.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE


(And likely can't use FWD tensioner... looks like will hit the Fiero WP pulley. I look at this for a bit while taking above pics. I'm not spending $ to get a FWD unit to find out.)
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Rodney
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Report this Post10-21-2015 07:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Someone about 30 miles from me is parting out an 88 L4 coupe. I can see I need to drive over there and look at this. I can see pictures are not enough. Thanks for posting the pictures.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Rodney
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Report this Post10-23-2015 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looked at this 88 L4 today. Everything looks good. I'll make up a few prototypes. This guy I went by will install one once I have one ready. Maybe this weekend I can make up a few of them. So if anyone needs one let me know. I can maybe make one up if someone is desperate. If you are not desperate and can wait I'll have them finished in maybe 3-4 weeks.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post10-24-2015 02:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is this going to be a manual idle pulley sim to v6 ones?

Likely can fix old ones w/ bad "arm" pivots but you need to find parts and just doing the job is dangerous and why the warning under the pulley.
Why? They preload the spring by winding up around 1 full turn and can easily send parts/tools flying. In general, Tensioners have 80-150 pound of load to keep the belt tight. (I don't have a scale to measure exact force.) I've took "dead" units apart... Getting the parts apart are bad w/o adding more damage but together again is dangerous too because you have to wind up the spring.

As installed from Pontiac... Many/most units, the Pivot just have Al arm on steel bolt/axle and why so many died.
All later units use plastic "bearing" in the arm pivot. These hold up allot better.
(These were made by Dyneer corp for GM and sold thru other parts brand.)
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Rodney
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Report this Post10-24-2015 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finished a prototype today and I'm sending it out to gtxbullet to try out. I'm quite sure it will work. Once Steve installs it and we know for sure it is going to work I'll post some pictures and such. I should have some on hand in a few weeks. I made up enough pieces to make 10. Once I know all is OK I'll send the pieces out to be laser cut. Making 10 of them manually is OK to start but it took me all day. Part of today was spent pondering different designs.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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