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Engine Decarbinizing by 85fieroguy
Started on: 08-27-2015 09:00 PM
Replies: 38 (625 views)
Last post by: bmwguru on 09-07-2015 04:54 AM
85fieroguy
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Report this Post08-27-2015 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85fieroguySend a Private Message to 85fieroguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does it help, or is it " Vodoo mechanics" ????? Have anyone ever did this to their V-6 ????
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Gall757
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Report this Post08-27-2015 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can you tell us what exactly 'decarbinizing' is?
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85fieroguy
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Report this Post08-27-2015 10:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85fieroguySend a Private Message to 85fieroguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have a neighbor who used " DeKarbonizer-4", ran it thru his engine, lots of black smoke, then clearing. Supposed to loosen carbon inside the engine, especially valve seats. ' Voodo mechanics" ?????
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Report this Post08-27-2015 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wouldn't recommend this on a high mileage engine, unless it's been done regularly. I took an S-10 Blazer in to a shop for a warranty repair. They used that stuff, and it surely loosened up carbon deposits --into the main bearing. True, that was a Vortec 4.3 V6, but I'm guessing the same thing could happen. I got a crate ACDelco engine with a 10-year, 100,000-mile warranty on it, as a result, but I'm doubting you'll have that much luck with your Fiero.
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Grantman
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Report this Post08-27-2015 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Seafoam is also used. There is video on you tube comparing several of the decarbonizing products. they had a pinhead camera inserted before and after. not much carbon came off. It looks like it's doing something with all the smoke that comes out but older mechanics claim using water accomplishes the same thing.

the liquid is sucked in via the power brake booster hose. goes right to the intake manifold. good way to have a neighbor call the fire department!!
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Report this Post08-27-2015 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Can you tell us what exactly 'decarbinizing' is?


Doubtful Every Car And Red Bus Imply Needed Industrial Zoning In Gerogia.
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Report this Post08-28-2015 01:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I Seafoam everything i own on a regular basis although I have never heard of injecting it through the brake booster hose. How's it supposed to get in to the intake system that way??
Kit
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Report this Post08-28-2015 07:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROPHREKSend a Private Message to FIEROPHREKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:

I Seafoam everything i own on a regular basis although I have never heard of injecting it through the brake booster hose. How's it supposed to get in to the intake system that way??
Kit


The brake booster hose is a vacuum source for the brake booster. It's a straight shot right into the intake of the engine.

------------------

ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

12.3 is faster than a 13.2

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Report this Post08-28-2015 08:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does the vehicle run poorly? If not, leave it alone
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Report this Post08-28-2015 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you just can't pour it in or let it be sucked in too fast. there is a risk of hydro-locking, but it's pretty obvious if your pushing too much into the hose. engine will quit.
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dratts
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Report this Post08-28-2015 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
N*s had a problem with carboning up because older drivers never floored them. Cadillac recommended that the drivers do a heavy acceleration periodically.
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Report this Post08-28-2015 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bkw88Click Here to Email bkw88Send a Private Message to bkw88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Decarbonizing is a thing of the past. I used to upsell the top engine cleaning at shops I worked at. With today's fuels, specially the amount of ethanol that is in our fuels. It acts as the cleaner. You can use all the methods listed above to do this if you want. I do not recommend sea foam. It causes too many other issues, like fouled plugs, missfires, and can take out a oxygen sensor fast, one issue is that it does not clean out the most important thing.....the EGR passages. That is where most carbon lives in the motor. Hope this info is helpful
Brian
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Report this Post08-28-2015 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnyrottinClick Here to Email johnyrottinSend a Private Message to johnyrottinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...and remember what happened to Han Solo with all that carbonitizing.
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Report this Post08-28-2015 03:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I took my 88 duke apart at 200,000 miles to rebuild it, I didn't see a lot of carbon. I think it was more of a problem before electronic fuel injection, which more precisely controls the fuel-air mixture.
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Report this Post08-28-2015 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Can you tell us what exactly 'decarbinizing' is?


Removing all the assault rifles from it.
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Report this Post08-28-2015 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When cars had carbs, I did it all the time by trickling coke into it while holding the throttle a littlle open to like 1500 rpm. I backed off a bit if it started to stall, they poured more in. I dont know how you would do it to a FI engine though. It blew out smoke and chunks of carbon thru the exhaust.
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Report this Post08-28-2015 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85fieroguySend a Private Message to 85fieroguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys for the posts. Did not intend to do it with the L44 V-6, but you hear stuff and wonder if your missing something.
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Report this Post08-28-2015 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BHall71Send a Private Message to BHall71Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a cylinder on my 2.8 that burns oil and fouls the plug about every 2000 miles. Used to pull the plug & clean it up for another good 2k. Started using Seafoam and don't have to pull the plug anymore.

On a good running engine with no oil burning issues I don't think it would be needed.

Brian
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Patrick
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Report this Post08-29-2015 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

When cars had carbs, I did it all the time by trickling coke into it while holding the throttle a littlle open to like 1500 rpm.


It was supposed to go up your nose!

All kidding aside, I assume you're referring to a beverage and not to a white powdery substance... but why would you have used a sugary liquid? IMO that would be the last stuff I'd want sucked into my engine.
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Report this Post08-29-2015 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joesfieroClick Here to Email joesfieroSend a Private Message to joesfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The GM top engine clean was some powerful stuff, would melt through stuff if left saoking too long. The method of using the booster hose for any of these products is sketchy at best especially with anyone who doesn't know exactly what they are doing. Its also not the best method on some cars considering the vacuum source could be on one side of the intake and only cleaning one bank of cylinders. Not to mention you could hydrolock the motor and bend a rod if not careful.

The best way to clean the inside of the motor is with a pressurized spray bottle and nozzle specially made for this application, placed before the throttle body to allow the best dispersement across all cylinders.

Also as said before the N* motors would clog up in the EGR ports real bad, when I worked at Cadillac we had a decarbon service that we performed, had to actually take the intake off and get into the ports on the heads to properly clean them.

-Joe
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Report this Post08-29-2015 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

N*s had a problem with carboning up because older drivers never floored them. Cadillac recommended that the drivers do a heavy acceleration periodically.


My N* definitely is low risk for carbon build up due to lack of flooring the accelerator
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post08-30-2015 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

It was supposed to go up your nose!

All kidding aside, I assume you're referring to a beverage and not to a white powdery substance... but why would you have used a sugary liquid? IMO that would be the last stuff I'd want sucked into my engine.


Everyone did it, even seen it at dealerships. It def blew the carbon out. How about when Chevy first came out with the 265 V8 in 1955. They notoriously burned a lot of oil new because of the way they were made. The 'recall' fix was the dealers ran Bon Ami cleanser thru the running engine to score up the rings and cylinder walls to fix it. ....followed by a rinse and oil change. They stopped burning oil.

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Report this Post08-30-2015 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

How about when Chevy first came out with the 265 V8 in 1955. They notoriously burned a lot of oil new because of the way they were made. The 'recall' fix was the dealers ran Bon Ami cleanser thru the running engine to score up the rings and cylinder walls to fix it. ....followed by a rinse and oil change. They stopped burning oil.


I've heard many times of Bon Ami being used in this manner... and it sort of makes sense (not that I would try it).

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Everyone did it, even seen it at dealerships. It def blew the carbon out.


"Everyone"??? Sorry Roger, I don't believe it. I have never heard of anyone purposely sucking Coke or Pepsi or whatever cola drink into their engine before. How was Coke supposed to do anything more than any other liquid would've? If it was the acidity of the Coke that might've helped to dissolve carbon deposits, surely there's something else without sugar in it that would've worked a whole lot better.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-30-2015).]

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Report this Post08-30-2015 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We pull the intakes and "walnut blast" most direct injected engines. The other stuff like seafoam makes little difference on those. The first walnut blast tool we had was an aftermarket made one from ECS Tuning. It was so frustrating to deal with because it was always temperamental. I bought the factory tool from BMW and it was worth every cent.
As for the Fiero.....there is no need to walnut blast because the fuel injector sprays fuel prior to the intake valve. I don't think I have seen a non direct injected engine with a properly working pcv system ever to actually need decarbonizing to the point of causing a noticeable power loss or fuel economy loss.
Dave
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Report this Post08-30-2015 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

"Everyone"??? Sorry Roger, I don't believe it. I have never heard of anyone purposely sucking Coke or Pepsi or whatever cola drink into their engine before. How was Coke supposed to do anything more than any other liquid would've? If it was the acidity of the Coke that might've helped to dissolve carbon deposits, surely there's something else without sugar in it that would've worked a whole lot better.



We used to do it with straight water. Poured in the same way. It did a great job of steam cleaning everything as it flashed off through the intake. Not required anymore with the new, cleaner fuels.
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Patrick
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Report this Post08-30-2015 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:

We used to do it with straight water. Poured in the same way. It did a great job of steam cleaning everything as it flashed off through the intake. Not required anymore with the new, cleaner fuels.


Neil, I built a simple water injection system for my big block Chevy back about 1975, so I know all about using water. However... I never ever ever EVER heard of anyone using Coca-Cola.

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Report this Post08-31-2015 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

"Everyone"??? Sorry Roger, I don't believe it. I have never heard of anyone purposely sucking Coke or Pepsi or whatever cola drink into their engine before. How was Coke supposed to do anything more than any other liquid would've? If it was the acidity of the Coke that might've helped to dissolve carbon deposits, surely there's something else without sugar in it that would've worked a whole lot better.



I dont know where the idea of coke started...maybe because it eats stuff up. But all my friends did it occasionally to their cars. I had a Chevy, Dodge and Lincoln dealership all do it at times. I watched the Lincoln dealer do it to my 77 Town Car when it started pinging. Stopped it right away. Maybe cold water would do the same thing, dont know. I watched another mechanic trying to fix a sticking valve with some concoction that included auto trans fluid down the carb of the running engine. Some old school mechanics had all kinds of little tricks.

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Report this Post08-31-2015 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for danscrazymodshopClick Here to Email danscrazymodshopSend a Private Message to danscrazymodshopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've used water, sea foam, Berrymans, and wire wheeling. My 86 SE had a gallon of water run through the throttle body. Consequently when had the car smog tested at Planet Hyundai (where I worked at this time) the lead tech told the smog tech about my car "Hey get a load of this, his Fiero which sat in a field abandoned for 18 years which I thought for sure would be automatic fail ran a cleaner smog test than any other car on our lot and that includes the new cars." So don't underestimate the power of steam cleaning the innards of your engine. I did mine just buy using a plastic spray bottle pointed at the throttle body. Spray slowly and don't worry as your engine will sputter and letting you know if you spraying too fast. Don't be in a hurry. This is the best way as water flashes into steam in the cylinders and leaves no chemical residue behind like commercial cleaners. This is of course after I precleaned it with Berrymans and before that even running the intake manifold sections in my dishwasher while the wife wasn't home. The heads were wire wheeled and piston tops wire wheeled. The coca trick is for cars with rings that are stuck. You pour coke down the spark plug holes and let the phosphoric acid eat away the rust or carbon build up on the rings.
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Report this Post08-31-2015 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for danscrazymodshopClick Here to Email danscrazymodshopSend a Private Message to danscrazymodshopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some Corvair guys had a bottle that sat next to engine which injected Marvel Mystery Oil as a "Upper cylinder lubricator" Early VW guys I seem to recall had this also. I personally recommend pouring 1 bottle of ATF into your gas tank with a fill up every once in a while as it keeps your fuel tank and lines from rusting plus it prevents your injectors from getting varnished up for cars that sit. Don't do it just before smog time as it could cause it to smoke slightly until you run the tank clean but you can see how it would help everything else. It's the same as running Marvel Mystery oil in the gas but much better because ATF cleans better because of all the detergents in it.
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Report this Post08-31-2015 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85fieroguySend a Private Message to 85fieroguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm a little new, whats ATF ????
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Report this Post08-31-2015 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85fieroguy:

I'm a little new, whats ATF ????


Alternator Toning Fluid.
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Report this Post08-31-2015 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by danscrazymodshop:

The coca trick is for cars with rings that are stuck. You pour coke down the spark plug holes and let the phosphoric acid eat away the rust or carbon build up on the rings.


Okay, that helps explain it a little... but I'd think a purer form of phosphoric acid (without sugar!) might be little better for the engine internals.

 
quote
Originally posted by danscrazymodshop:

I personally recommend pouring 1 bottle of ATF into your gas tank with a fill up every once in a while as it keeps your fuel tank and lines from rusting...


Don't know how good that would be for the O2 sensor when done on a regular basis?
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Report this Post09-01-2015 11:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85fieroguy:

I'm a little new, whats ATF ????


Automatic Transmission Fluid.

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Report this Post09-01-2015 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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Member since May 2007
Decarbonizing to some folks means getting on the gas hard, up in the RPMS, "Blow the carbon out".
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Jason88Notchie
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Report this Post09-01-2015 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by johnyrottin:

...and remember what happened to Han Solo with all that carbonitizing.


Vader took his pizza away!
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Report this Post09-03-2015 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadProfessor8138Click Here to Email MadProfessor8138Send a Private Message to MadProfessor8138Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Back in the good old days of leaded fuel......rice was also a good choice for knocking the carbon off the valves...just bring the rpm's up a bit and drop a little at a time down the carb.
It's hard enough to bust the carbon loose but soft enough not to interfere with the valves seating.
And no,that's not why they came up with the term (rice burner)....lol

Water down the carb doesn't work because of the steam cleaning principal so much as it works because of the cold water hitting the hot valve and fracturing the carbon deposits due to the sudden temperature change....the carbon is busted off of the valve.
Many of the old cars actually had a water injection bottle factory installed specifically for this purpose.

With today's cleaner fuel....nothing more than a bottle of Marvel Mystery oil (it truly is a mystery as to why it works so well) in the fuel tank every once in a while and a bottle in the crankcase oil about 500 miles before the next oil change should be all that's ever needed.
ATF is also an acceptable substitute.....

[This message has been edited by MadProfessor8138 (edited 09-03-2015).]

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Report this Post09-03-2015 11:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadProfessor8138Click Here to Email MadProfessor8138Send a Private Message to MadProfessor8138Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since we are talking about carbon and what not.....might as well have some fun and see if you guys can answer this question.
What are the 3 reasons that engines have exhaust's on them?
The old timers should know this fairly well......youngsters,probably not so much...lol
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Report this Post09-06-2015 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru: We pull the intakes and "walnut blast" most direct injected engines. The other stuff like seafoam makes little difference on those. The first walnut blast tool we had was an aftermarket made one from ECS Tuning. It was so frustrating to deal with because it was always temperamental. I bought the factory tool from BMW and it was worth every cent.

I bet you love cleaning the intakes on older TDI engines.
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quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

I bet you love cleaning the intakes on older TDI engines.


Those intakes got to be very inexpensive, so we just replace them now.

These are the valves of a 2008 Volkswagen 2.0t with 50,000 miles on it. I took both of these pictures myself.



This is after walnut blasting the valves.



We walnut blast about 1-2 cars a day. Using the original ECS Tuning tool, it would take about 30-40 minutes per cylinder after the intake was off. It kept clogging and would take two people to do it. Using the factory BMW tool takes about 3 minutes per cylinder and there is absolutely no mess and takes one person to operate it. The price difference was more than $1000 though.

As for Fieros....they will never see this much carbon buildup, so there shouldn't be a worry. The first generation direct injected engines would get so bad that they would misfire and have a noticeable power loss.

Dave
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