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Run-flat tires.. ..tell me about them. by Kitskaboodle
Started on: 08-20-2015 01:17 PM
Replies: 30 (506 views)
Last post by: rogergarrison on 08-27-2015 05:44 PM
Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post08-20-2015 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 85 GT is in serious need of tires. I have been looking on Craigslist for used ones and I keep seeing several guys selling run-flats off of BMW's for 120-160 bucks. (usually around 70% tread life left) Most of these guys say in the ads that you can run them on regular cars but I know little to nothing about them. What is different about them and has anyone run them on a Fiero? Good or bad idea?
I'm looking for 225 45 17's.
Thanks, Kit

[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 08-20-2015).]

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Report this Post08-20-2015 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They have stiff sidewalls, otherwise, they work like any other tire

Personally, I would buy standard tires and keep a spare, as you have a better selection of tires and the prices will be better.
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Report this Post08-20-2015 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DKcustomsSend a Private Message to DKcustomsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
some run-flats actually have another metal donut around the wheel so that when the tire gets cut down, you essentially just ride on that donut for however many miles.

others just have stiffer sidewalls.

Both are said to decrease ride comfort.

https://www.youtube.com/res...query=run+flat+tires
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mrfred8
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Report this Post08-20-2015 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfred8Click Here to visit mrfred8's HomePageSend a Private Message to mrfred8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some (if not most) tire places will only install run-flats on cars that have pressure sensors in the wheels.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post08-20-2015 05:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Runflat tires are great for well they run flat.

Now here is the bad. The side walls are very stiff and they compromise ride and in some cars handling.

Second if you damage one and have to replace it they are very expensive.

Third Run Flats are much heavier than standard tires and cause more unstrung weight.

The truth is most companies anymore are just putting fix a flat in the trunk with a compressor to cut the weight of the tires and the spare.

To be honest I would not bother with them unless someone gave me a set cheap or free. Then I would only use them on a larger sedan not a light Fiero.

Note one of the best improvements many BMW owners do to their cars is to take off the run flats and sell them to someone on Craigs list. I am not kidding.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 08-20-2015).]

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hnthomps
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Report this Post08-20-2015 07:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had run flats on an armored vehicle in the Middle East and viewed this function as only a very short term fix to let me exit the immediate area. My tires had a central hard ring with a few rollers on it. The sidewalls were also fairly stiff even without the central ring and roller components installed. On a heavy armored Toyota Land Cruiser this did not make a lot of difference but I do not think that I would like these type of tires on a relatively light Fiero.

Nelson
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Report this Post08-20-2015 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scooter_86gtSend a Private Message to Scooter_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am looking into getting runflats as I don't carry a spare and the new bridgestone drivegaurd run flats look pretty good and are reviewed well. Maybe something to research in your search.
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tebailey
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Report this Post08-20-2015 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From the reviews I've heard is that most BMW owners that had the run flats, took them off and put regular tires on because they rode terrible.
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Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post08-20-2015 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, thanks for all the input. I had a suspicion about the harsh ride, heavy weight and high replacement cost.
In addition, I was getting suspicious of why they were coming off primarily Beemers and WHY people were having them removed after being only 30% worn. Now I know why....
Kit

[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 08-20-2015).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post08-20-2015 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One really has to ask how many flats do you get anymore if you care for your tires. Years ago they were very common but today I would be if you care for your tires you have not had one in decades. Even if you get a nail the leak is slow. I just carry a compressor and use it to get home to take off the tire if I have a nail. I have not used a spare in 20 years.
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Report this Post08-21-2015 12:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:

I had run flats on an armored vehicle in the Middle East and viewed this function as only a very short term fix to let me exit the immediate area. My tires had a central hard ring with a few rollers on it. The sidewalls were also fairly stiff even without the central ring and roller components installed. On a heavy armored Toyota Land Cruiser this did not make a lot of difference but I do not think that I would like these type of tires on a relatively light Fiero.

Nelson


Don't mean to hijack the thread but just got back from Ft. Jackson for my daughter's graduation. Fricken Macgruder's driveway tore the passenger side ground affect off my car! That hump must be a foot in the air!
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Report this Post08-21-2015 01:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Run Flat tires require the car to have Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) because you can't tell tire is low on air w/o checking w/ a gauge every time you drive.

Blow outs and other problems from running w/ low pressure can easily happen w/o TPMS. You often see truck tire threads on the highway? Most are cause by low tire pressure. Does happen to car normal and run flat tires too.

You can get TPMS for old cars but it does Cost money.
When getting new tires or if you rotate the tires, replace a wreck sensor, etc, then often have to relearn the system. Depending on system that can be a pain and cost money.
(Many wreck sensors happens when you buy new tires.)

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(Jurassic Park)


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Monkeyman
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Report this Post08-21-2015 06:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Run flats work well on the back of a motorcycle. I had one on the back of Victory Vision for a while but I liked the feel of a MC tire so I went back to one. It was only 1 tire (instead of 4) but it handled like it was on rails.
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Report this Post08-21-2015 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, you have to remember that some Bimmer (Beemer is for motorcycles) owners BELIEVE there is something wrong with run-flats. They can be their own worse enemy. I know a tire dealer who doesn't like them but the brands he carries do not carry run-flats, so... he pushes the non-run flats. It isn't about what is better, it is about what he has supplies of.

 
quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:

Ok, thanks for all the input. I had a suspicion about the harsh ride, heavy weight and high replacement cost.
In addition, I was getting suspicious of why they were coming off primarily Beemers and WHY people were having them removed after being only 30% worn. Now I know why....
Kit



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Report this Post08-21-2015 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scooter_86gt:

I am looking into getting runflats as I don't carry a spare and the new bridgestone drivegaurd run flats look pretty good and are reviewed well. Maybe something to research in your search.


I am pretty sure I have read (on here) that the Fiero spare is part of the front end crash protection. I still carry mine, even with it's 30 year old tire on it for that reason.

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Report this Post08-21-2015 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:
I am pretty sure I have read (on here) that the Fiero spare is part of the front end crash protection. I still carry mine, even with it's 30 year old tire on it for that reason.


I don't know why people keep saying this. How exactly is a stamped 14" steel wheel with a skinny hard tire on it, that's held in by a tiny metal rod, and isn't mounted perpendicular to the object of impact, going to provide any additional structural integrity?

Personally, I just avoid smashing into trees dead center at 50 MPH.

On the subject of run-flats, I had a Mini Cooper that came with them once. Never had any issues with the ride being too hard in that car. It used the wheel speed sensors to determine if a tire was low on air, so the requirement of direct pressure sensing is not true, at least for all models where they were available as an OE option.

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Originally posted by dobey:


I don't know why people keep saying this.


'Cos I read it on the internet (and on here) so it must be true LOL!



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Report this Post08-21-2015 10:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pcgoldSend a Private Message to pcgoldEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have run flats on my BMW and hate them. I also have winter snow tires on their own rims. The ride difference is phenomenal when I put the winter tires on. Thank goodness the run flats are almost at the end of their life. The run flats are like driving on wagon wheels. Hard, hard and hard. I am going to get rid of those and go to conventional tires and buy a spare.

In the future I shall avoid buying any car that comes with run flats.
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Report this Post08-21-2015 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pcgold:

...avoid buying any car that comes with run flats.


Except an H1 Hummer. Glue bricks around a pie tin and bolt them to the axles and I'd still drive one.

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Report this Post08-21-2015 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:

I am pretty sure I have read (on here) that the Fiero spare is part of the front end crash protection.



You are correct. It has nothing to do with structural integrity, and everything to do with crush zones. The tire absorbs energy when it gets hit and moves. Granted, it would be one terrible accident even to get the tire to move, but the position of the tire was established with crash testing in mind. There are some accident pictures on PFF that show what happens to the spare.
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Report this Post08-21-2015 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bjc 350Send a Private Message to bjc 350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had run flats on my 03 Cooper S when the car was new. No spare. I had a flat about 10K miles into the tire life. A famous Northwest tire supplier said it could not be repaired because I had driven on it? Owners manual says 50 miles at 50 m.p.h. is OK. I discovered the flat when I was on my lunch hour and drove about a mile to a service station to inflate the tire. After being reinflated, I then drove about 7 miles to the tire company. They wanted to sell me new tires. Well after a discussion, they loaned me a non run flat and put it on the front. Don't ever do that! Car was all over the place, until I drove to the local tire company who said there was no problem with the flat tire and repaired it for me. Later at about 22,000 miles I had the tires replaced with non run flats and the same Famous N.W. supplier broke one of my alloy wheels when dismounting/mounting the new tires. They didn't bother to tell me that they broke the rim. They did replace the rim after I pointed out the broken rim. I will never use run flats again, and will not use the Famous N.W. tire supplier , either! The run flats have too many disadvantages- I just carry a small compressor and tire Slime in case I have a flat out in the boonies! Sorry for the rant-you can tell it is still a sore subject even though it happened about 7 or 8 years ago.
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Report this Post08-21-2015 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You cant always count on a flat just being a nail hole. You can hit a curb and tear out the sidewall, or blow it out, even lose a tread. Run flat tires wont help you in any of those. I didnt have spares or jacks in my cars for many years. Now I consider one a necessity. Ill always have a flat tire 40 miles from town at 2am. I even occasionally check the air in the spare.

One thing I notice with people who have run flats...theyll ignore all the warnings and still drive 70 mph for 200 miles on one. Most say like 55mph for not more than 30-40 miles.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-21-2015).]

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Report this Post08-22-2015 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Runflats require runflat wheels. They should NEVER be fitted to non runflat wheels. You can however fit normal tyres to runflat wheels, if you have a fitter who know's what he's doing.

All the other posts about runflat tyres hold true. Had them on a BMW, tested several with them fitted. I would never have them on a car again.

I would certainly never, ever, consider fitting them to a Fiero, even if somone gave me them, and a set of compatible wheels, for free.

[This message has been edited by Iain (edited 08-22-2015).]

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Report this Post08-22-2015 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bjc 350:

I had run flats on my 03 Cooper S when the car was new. No spare. I had a flat about 10K miles into the tire life. A famous Northwest tire supplier said it could not be repaired because I had driven on it? Owners manual says 50 miles at 50 m.p.h. is OK. I discovered the flat when I was on my lunch hour and drove about a mile to a service station to inflate the tire. After being reinflated, I then drove about 7 miles to the tire company. They wanted to sell me new tires. Well after a discussion, they loaned me a non run flat and put it on the front. Don't ever do that! Car was all over the place, until I drove to the local tire company who said there was no problem with the flat tire and repaired it for me. Later at about 22,000 miles I had the tires replaced with non run flats and the same Famous N.W. supplier broke one of my alloy wheels when dismounting/mounting the new tires. They didn't bother to tell me that they broke the rim. They did replace the rim after I pointed out the broken rim. I will never use run flats again, and will not use the Famous N.W. tire supplier , either! The run flats have too many disadvantages- I just carry a small compressor and tire Slime in case I have a flat out in the boonies! Sorry for the rant-you can tell it is still a sore subject even though it happened about 7 or 8 years ago.


Sounds like your problem isn't with the run-flats (they worked as they were supposed to), but the idiots you had to deal with that tried to scam you. Why blame the tires for the bad tire dealers?

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Report this Post08-23-2015 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tire places here have been refusing to work on tires with 'slime' in them. Apparently the stuff can explode if they dismount it. Just what I seen on news, not confirmed.

(excerpt)

"The Disadvantages of Tire Puncture Sealant
These sealants do not permanently repair the tire; the tire must still receive a traditional patch to be suitable for long term use. Many professionals dislike repairing tires that have been treated with a canned sealant for a number of reasons. These sealants may contain hazardous chemicals and removing it from the inside of the tire can be a time consuming process. More and more companies are using water soluble solutions for their sealants to aid in the removal of the product prior to performing a patch, so this is less of an issue than it was in the past.

The use of a canned sealant can create a high pressure environment inside of the tire that can be hazardous for the person repairing the tire. Additionally, using a canned sealant could also invalidate the warranty on your tire; be sure to examine the details of your warranty prior to using one of these products. Another potential disadvantage is that most tire sealants are not designed to be used with high-performance tires, meaning they are not a valid option for some drivers."

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-23-2015).]

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bmwguru
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I removed my runflats from my MINI at the first chance I got. They are heavy, ride quality is horrible and are pretty much pointless with the exception of getting a flat in a bad part of town.
If the TPMS sensors are not working correctly (at $200 each), you won't know if the tire is flat and it will eventually shred itself. I saw a prime example of this a few days ago when a customer got towed in with a BMW that had a runflat that shredded and he didn't know because the batteries went dead in his TPMS sensors.
Newer cars use the ABS wheel speed sensors to determine if the tires are low on air.
Basically, my advise is lose the runflats and get a good roadside towing plan...or buy an additional rim and tire if there is room to store it.
Dave
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hyperv6
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Report this Post08-25-2015 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Iain:

Runflats require runflat wheels. They should NEVER be fitted to non runflat wheels. You can however fit normal tyres to runflat wheels, if you have a fitter who know's what he's doing.

All the other posts about runflat tyres hold true. Had them on a BMW, tested several with them fitted. I would never have them on a car again.

I would certainly never, ever, consider fitting them to a Fiero, even if somone gave me them, and a set of compatible wheels, for free.



Not all run flats require special rims. Bridgestone and a couple others in the past did but most today can use a regular wheel.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post08-25-2015 07:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The truth is most tires today are not easy to repair or save based on some of the standards people have in place and the liability that surrounds them.

#1 Most tires can be repaired wit a plug but too often many places do not want the liability. In years past also many cars were speed limited and today most come with a speed rated tire and even if you do not plan to drive 150 MPH no one wants to take the chance with liability.

#2 Too often even if you drive a short ways on a flat it will damage the side walls inside. I have scooped handfuls of chewed up rubber from tires with only a few blocks on them flat. It depends on the wheel and tires but too often one city block can destroy a tire flat.

#3 Fix a flat or slime works fine and it does generally what it is meant to do get you to your home or shop to remove the tire. It does make a mess when trying to find a leak as if there is no nail often it will seal up a small leak make it impossible to find. Most shops hate the stuff as it make their job more difficult and keep them from a fast easy repair.

Today while you can repair tires it is becoming more rare that shops want to do it more and more. To be fair though it is more and more rare you also see a flat anymore. The old bias tires may have had 2 flats just driving from Detroit to Orlando in year past.

Today the liability of tires has closed many windows to many people. I have done many tire repairs over the years and most tires can be repaired but more places would rather just sell you a new tire. Trust me I have done things that should have never been done and gotten away with it on my own tires so the margin of error is not as close as you may think but it does decrease.

Lets face it not long ago most cars could only do 115 MPH at best and today many are speed limited due to the tires. Even those vehicles not speed limited will go much faster even ones you would not expect. Example my HHR SS Turbo with the upgrade will go 160 MPH if you are crazy enough to do it with a little rounded box. I have no plans to test that limit but companies have to be willing to accept the liability to those few brave but stupid souls who will say watch this.

Just look at the many cases GM has paid out on for the ignition issue. While GM did have ignition failures that were their fault the truth is many people died because of other factors like they were drunk. on drugs, Speeding etc. GM still was held liable alone even if these folks would have dies air bag or not with the ignition failure. Lets face it you hit a tree at 70 MPH the odds are the bag will not save you anyways. Liability rules today hold most drivers fault less and companies will just not take the chance anymore even on thing they could do just because of what could happen.
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Report this Post08-26-2015 04:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We still patch tires for our customers. We never use plugs. If a customer with a runflat comes in with a nail in the tire, we sell them a tire. You legally (in my state) cannot patch or plug a runflat tire.
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Report this Post08-26-2015 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TXOPIEClick Here to visit TXOPIE's HomePageClick Here to Email TXOPIESend a Private Message to TXOPIEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Had a set of run-flats on the G37 when I purchased it with 18K miles on it already and the original owner had them already installed.

I couldn't get them off the car quick enough! Just make sure you have a spare and skip the run-flats....IMO!
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Report this Post08-27-2015 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tire place I deal with will plug a radial in the tread, but not the sidewall. They will do a round puncture, but not a cut. If you cant carry a spare, make sure to keep your cell phone charged and have a service like AAA. I even check the spare on the motorhome. It and my van both have spares mounted underneath. I make sure I have all the tools and jack to make a change. I make sure the handle is there and it cranks down the spare once a year...and oil it down good so it dont rust. The only flat Ive had in decades was from hitting a curb on a dark street that ripped a 6" hole in the side.

BMWs, Jags and Mercedes alloys have a problem with age. As they get old, the rims get porous and will leak air. Ive had a bunch of those. One BMW had the problem on all 4 wheels. If you sprayed soapy water on them, bubbles were all over the barrel of the wheel that showed. The only fix was new wheels, or put radial tubes in them.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-27-2015).]

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