What was done for the exhaust? did you use a Cat? If so was it a performance replacemnt part or a repurposed OEM unit. What size pipe? what gear was the the car in for the pull?
I thought the numbers were going to be a bit lower also.
No cat in the exhaust. Stock down pipe and matching smooth bent pipe to a factory style generic muffler. The outlets on the muffler are no more than 1 3/4.
As I remember it was a 4th gear pull. I would have to watch it to be 100% though.
My 3800 SC Series II (around 20,000 miles on it) dynoed at around 300 ft lbs of torque and 258 HP at the wheels. Totally stock engine with a 3.4 inch pulley and a decent sized exhaust/intake tubing. Note that dyno type can have some effect on the indicated parameters.
Nelson
[This message has been edited by hnthomps (edited 07-09-2015).]
My 3800 SC Series II (around 20,000 miles on it) dynoed at around 300 ft lbs of torque and 258 HP at the wheels. Totally stock engine with a 3.4 inch pulley and a decent sized exhaust/intake tubing. Note that dyno type can have some effect on the indicated parameters.
I do not remember what the boost was at the dyno since I was not present for the run. Under normal circumstances the boost gauge reads 7-8 psi but I do not trust any stock boost gauge to tell the truth. As for hitting 300 hp with a stock Series II SC engine, I do not think that is possible even with good intake and exhaust tubing.
I also have a modified Series III SC engine in another car with a N* TV, VS cam, intercooler, TOG headers, 3.4 pulley, as well as big bore intake and exhaust tubing. This vehicle dynoed about 295 hp and 300 ft lbs of torque at the wheels. Both of the vehicles are conservatively tuned for reliability and I am certain that I can get the Series III engine over 300 hp but do not think that the stock Series II engine with a 3.4 pulley can make it there without serious mods.
I do not remember what the boost was at the dyno since I was not present for the run. Under normal circumstances the boost gauge reads 7-8 psi but I do not trust any stock boost gauge to tell the truth. As for hitting 300 hp with a stock Series II SC engine, I do not think that is possible even with good intake and exhaust tubing.
I also have a modified Series III SC engine in another car with a N* TV, VS cam, intercooler, TOG headers, 3.4 pulley, as well as big bore intake and exhaust tubing. This vehicle dynoed about 295 hp and 300 ft lbs of torque at the wheels. Both of the vehicles are conservatively tuned for reliability and I am certain that I can get the Series III engine over 300 hp but do not think that the stock Series II engine with a 3.4 pulley can make it there without serious mods.
Nelson
It already laid 250 and 300tq with absolutely no mods. It will be close to 300 with the pulley change and a re-tune.
How much do they charge to do a dyno run? I'd love to get my car on one.
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
I'm no expert but those numbers are very high to me, brand new that setup only puts out 192 to the wheels. I'm aware the exhaust is less restrictive and you have a cold air intake but it also has almost 100k miles. Something added almost 60 hp to the wheels? Either that motor has some hidden modifications or that dyno needs to be recalibrated.
Dynos of the same brand will vary from shop to shop. Dynos of different brands can be very far apart on the same car. Dynos are best utilized by using the same dyno and shop to evaluate continuing upgrades to your car. Dyno numbers really shouldn't be used for comparison, unless two or more cars are dynoed at the same shop, same dyno to compare power output of those particular cars.
Dynos of the same brand will vary from shop to shop. Dynos of different brands can be very far apart on the same car. Dynos are best utilized by using the same dyno and shop to evaluate continuing upgrades to your car. Dyno numbers really shouldn't be used for comparison, unless two or more cars are dynoed at the same shop, same dyno to compare power output of those particular cars.
The owner put a new Mustang on his dyno as the first car then had it ran at another dyno in the area. His dyno read about 5% lower with the same exact car. His dyno is an All wheel drive set up.
I always thought 240hp was at the motor not the wheels on the 3800? I have quite a few mods and only hit 294hp on a mustang dyno.
Indeed the OE stated numbers are brake horsepower (power at the flywheel).
If the dyno in the video is correct, then this 3800 is making about 300hp at the flywheel already. Maybe it had a couple of small mods already, and the tune used to get it running in the FIero, combined to add the 60 HP?
By utilizing the same dyno shop as you make mods you will be able to accurately assess your gains.
Have fun!
Are you trying to explain this to me or what...I understand all of this.
I started this thread for all the Guys that just guess at their HP. A local friend with a highly modified 3.8 series 2 engine never had his car dyno'ed or dyno tuned.
Indeed the OE stated numbers are brake horsepower (power at the flywheel).
If the dyno in the video is correct, then this 3800 is making about 300hp at the flywheel already. Maybe it had a couple of small mods already, and the tune used to get it running in the FIero, combined to add the 60 HP?
I saw the car this engine came from and had the supercharger and oil pan off. It is completely stock..no ported heads, intake, supercharger, throttle body. Stock injectors and pulley at the time of that first dyno.
I always thought 240hp was at the motor not the wheels on the 3800? I have quite a few mods and only hit 294hp on a mustang dyno.
My stock 2000 GTP (3.8SC) had about that to the wheels. Pontiac said that the engine only put out 240HP to lower the cost of insurance. The motors are known to put out around 300HP at the flywheel.
Originally posted by zzzhuh: My stock 2000 GTP (3.8SC) had about that to the wheels. Pontiac said that the engine only put out 240HP to lower the cost of insurance. The motors are known to put out around 300HP at the flywheel.
That is a myth. They are rated at 240 HP at the crank, because that's what the average rating of the sample of engines tested on an engine dyno, put out, with stock tune. Otherwise all the bone stock Series II GTP dyno pulls I see on YouTube would be making closer to 240 HP at the wheels, and not 190-200 HP, which is what they make. And those numbers are right on the money for a 15-20% power loss through the drivetrain.
I could see an intake, exhaust, and tune adding a bit, but 60 HP is a big jump for just those changes. Maybe some got produced with higher ratio rockers by accident or something? Or maybe a basic tune to make it run right in a Fiero, and the exhaust and intake really do free up that much power.
Are you trying to explain this to me or what...I understand all of this.
I started this thread for all the Guys that just guess at their HP. A local friend with a highly modified 3.8 series 2 engine never had his car dyno'ed or dyno tuned.
That is a myth. They are rated at 240 HP at the crank, because that's what the average rating of the sample of engines tested on an engine dyno, put out, with stock tune. Otherwise all the bone stock Series II GTP dyno pulls I see on YouTube would be making closer to 240 HP at the wheels, and not 190-200 HP, which is what they make. And those numbers are right on the money for a 15-20% power loss through the drivetrain.
I could see an intake, exhaust, and tune adding a bit, but 60 HP is a big jump for just those changes. Maybe some got produced with higher ratio rockers by accident or something? Or maybe a basic tune to make it run right in a Fiero, and the exhaust and intake really do free up that much power.
Hmm... I will have to get mine dyno'd again and see what I get.
Here is a dyno of another stock 3800 SC Series II engine. The only mods to this engine are a 3.4 pulley, tune, and three inch intake/exhaust tubing.
The next dyno is for a 3800 SC Series III engine with several mods. The mods that I currently remember are a tune, N* TV, 3.4 pulley, VS Cam, TOG headers, intercooler, and a three inch intake/exhaust tubing.
Both of these engines are tuned for long term reliability and not maximum potential performance.
Nelson
[This message has been edited by hnthomps (edited 07-19-2015).]
I have many mods. Custom 3" exhaust, Intense stage 2 cam, ZZP heads, full size intercooler, ported gen3 and intake. trq peak is at 4200-ish peak HP 6200-ish on 10.4 lbs boost. this is on a Mustang dyno and was tuned by Shane Hinds @ Craven Performance in St Charles MO
[This message has been edited by Drew-py (edited 07-25-2015).]
Well something is going with my car now. Got it re-tuned and the knock sensor is going crazy. Almost no knock before. Now it's hitting a high degree of knock. Only got the car up to 262hp and 311tq with an extra 5lbs of boost. Was slightly bothered, for sure.
Going to change the throw out bearing and the knock sensor and see what happens. When the pulley was pressed on the guy pushed the bearing out a little bit also. He got back into place but maybe that's causing it.
Going to need 1.9:1 rockers or a cam and a smaller pulley yet (around 3.0") to break 300 hp. Need good fuel and/or an intercooler to be able to make that kind of power. I wouldn't expect much more than you have now with what you have for mods, I'd actually be pretty happy. I'd say your engine is what used to be refered to on ClubGP as a factory freak. Some cars made more power stock than others, running quicker than average.
When I was stock cam/heads with 1.9 rockers, ported exhaust manifolds and throttle body, each pulley drop from 3.4 to 3.3 to 3.2 to 3.1 to 3.0 was worth about 10hp, less the smaller you go. A 3.0" might get you close to 300hp, but without some supporting mods ( ported exhaust, throttle body and likely rockers) it's going to be tough to get the airflow through the engine to make the power.
I'd put some race fuel in it or a bottle of "NOS" brand octane boost in the tank and see if your knock goes away. If it does it's real knock, if not, then start looking at throw out hearings etc for false knock. The tune likely increased timing which will increase the likelihood of KR.
------------------ 10.132 @ 131.69MPH - 1.42 60' Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 140lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, stock L32 bottom end and heads.
Going to need 1.9:1 rockers or a cam and a smaller pulley yet (around 3.0") to break 300 hp. Need good fuel and/or an intercooler to be able to make that kind of power. I wouldn't expect much more than you have now with what you have for mods, I'd actually be pretty happy. I'd say your engine is what used to be refered to on ClubGP as a factory freak. Some cars made more power stock than others, running quicker than average.
When I was stock cam/heads with 1.9 rockers, ported exhaust manifolds and throttle body, each pulley drop from 3.4 to 3.3 to 3.2 to 3.1 to 3.0 was worth about 10hp, less the smaller you go. A 3.0" might get you close to 300hp, but without some supporting mods ( ported exhaust, throttle body and likely rockers) it's going to be tough to get the airflow through the engine to make the power.
I'd put some race fuel in it or a bottle of "NOS" brand octane boost in the tank and see if your knock goes away. If it does it's real knock, if not, then start looking at throw out hearings etc for false knock. The tune likely increased timing which will increase the likelihood of KR.
I was happy with the numbers it laid stock. I am not happy with adding boost and not getting the 30 or 40 I thought It was going to get. The tuner didn't change anything with the first pull and the knock was going nuts. So something else happened. I'll get it figured out and get the hp up.
Those dyno numbers are looking pretty great. Ive got a 3800sc 328 replica thats on track to have it back on all four and turning the key over gor the first time since the motor and tranny swap. I got the 3.4 pulley, pace setter headers, afterburner muffler, and a tune from sinister. Im hoping my numbers look that good.
Hoping when the key is turned it starts. Right now a section of the trunk is being removed to fit the exhuast. I will have it on the dyno just dont know when yet.
My stock 2000 GTP (3.8SC) had about that to the wheels. Pontiac said that the engine only put out 240HP to lower the cost of insurance. The motors are known to put out around 300HP at the flywheel.
Lay off the meth. Don't kid yourself. 240 at the crank. Just about 200 to the wheels factory. Little under.
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