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2.2L EcoTec swap?? by FieroWillie
Started on: 07-08-2015 09:06 PM
Replies: 16 (1570 views)
Last post by: Lunatic on 09-04-2015 06:39 AM
FieroWillie
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Report this Post07-08-2015 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWillieClick Here to Email FieroWillieSend a Private Message to FieroWillieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The fiero I recently bought, engine seize. And I got to thinking, the, EcoTec engine that is in my 2005 Malibu has good powe, light weifht, and great MPGs. What I'm wondering is if that engine wil! Bolt up to the 88 5 spd trans? Has anyone attempted this swap before?
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Raydar
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Report this Post07-08-2015 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Several people have done Ecotec swaps.
It will not, however, bolt to a stock Fiero tranny.
There are F23s that will bolt right to the Ecotec, however. (Or just buy the entire drivetrain.)
The F23 is arguably better than the Getrag, anyway.
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FieroWillie
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Report this Post07-08-2015 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWillieClick Here to Email FieroWillieSend a Private Message to FieroWillieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How will the F23 bolt into the car? Will I need custom axels?
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pHoOl
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Report this Post07-09-2015 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think I've read on here that stock fiero axles fit the f23. You'll want to google Roger Thelin and give him a call. I ended up talking to him for almost an hour one day about an ecotec swap I was just beginning to research. He makes the kit to attach to the subframe.
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pHoOl
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Report this Post07-09-2015 11:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

pHoOl

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Member since Jun 2000
Also, this thread will give you some good reading material.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000029.html


BTW, welcome to the forum!

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FieroWillie
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Report this Post07-10-2015 03:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWillieClick Here to Email FieroWillieSend a Private Message to FieroWillieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After reading through that thread it is really making me reconsider even wanting the swap. It looks painfully complicated
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pHoOl
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Report this Post07-13-2015 08:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The sc3800 swap is pretty well documented on here too. I have no idea which would be easier. The camaro 3.4 is too... almost bolt in but you need to drill and tap for the starter. The good thing about fieros is you have lots of options
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2tone86gt
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Report this Post07-13-2015 09:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2tone86gtClick Here to Email 2tone86gtSend a Private Message to 2tone86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would stick to a pushrod motor, those ecotecs are high maintenance and they like to eat valves when the timing belt goes. It is an interference engine. OHV engines are more reliable ten fold.
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wftb
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Report this Post07-13-2015 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ecotec cams are chain driven , no belts to break.Early 2.2's had defective cam chain oilers and a failure prone cam chain tensioner .This only affected 2002 and some 03 engines and they all got fixed under warranty . Ecotecs are very reliable motors .As far as being a complicated swap , it all depends on your level of expertise and how much money you want to spend .There are now lots of stand alone harnesses and ECM's that solve the wiring issue .You can buy mounts and shift converters from Roger Thelin . I made all this stuff myself to save money .I actually had one of Rogers shift kits but did not use it because I really like the way my car shifts now . The work I am doing now is just stuff I want to do , totally unnecessary but fun for me .
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Report this Post07-14-2015 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2tone86gt:

I would stick to a pushrod motor, those ecotecs are high maintenance and they like to eat valves when the timing belt goes. It is an interference engine. OHV engines are more reliable ten fold.


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pHoOl
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Report this Post07-14-2015 01:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wftb, if one was using Rogers kit, getting welded somewhere professionally, and using standalone ECU, how difficult would you say the swap is?
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wftb
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Report this Post07-14-2015 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
pretty easy , only because then you are paying someone else to do most of the work .When I got mine running , it took me 6 weeks from the time the ecotec stuff was in my garage to the time I took it for a drive .The advantage to the way I did it was that I found a wrecker willing to sell me the engine ,tranny , clutch hydraulics , entire car wiring harness , ecm bcm and the steering column with ignition switch and the keys all from the same donor car .If you understand new car electronics , it is all plug and play .
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-16-2015 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Aftermarket stand alone Ecotec plug and play harnesses and PCM's are available for some versions of the engines.
http://www.alphafabindustri...-road-engine-harness

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Heddman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-16-2015).]

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dobey
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Report this Post07-17-2015 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2tone86gt:
I would stick to a pushrod motor, those ecotecs are high maintenance and they like to eat valves when the timing belt goes. It is an interference engine. OHV engines are more reliable ten fold.


Eh. Anything will eat valves if timing chain/belt goes. All engines require maintenance. Ecotecs don't generally require more than any others. Sure, the timing belt has to be changed every 100K miles or so. Replace it when you swap the engine in, and assuming nothing else is wrong with the engine (buying junkyard engines are always a risk, no matter what they are), and you've got 100-120K miles to go before you have to do it again.

There are literally millions of Ecotec engines in the wild at this point, all over the world. Parts are abundant. They are cheap and relatively easy to maintain. Timing belt might be a pain to replace in an Aveo, due to chassis design, but can be made easier when swapping into a Fiero, as you have more freedom on how to route things, where to place accessories, and so it can be engineered to make that an easier job. But you're not going to have to do it for a long time unless you are putting 10K miles every month on the car.
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FieroWillie
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Report this Post09-03-2015 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWillieClick Here to Email FieroWillieSend a Private Message to FieroWillieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is there any real difference between a 2.2L Ecotec and a 2.4L? I keep finding forged internals online for the 2.4 and im wondering if that would be a better option. Also should I just run a stand alone aftermarket ECU to run the Ecotec or use the factory system? I dont want to squirrel the igntion cylinder into the glove box like ive seen a few people on here do.
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Report this Post09-03-2015 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWillie:

Is there any real difference between a 2.2L Ecotec and a 2.4L? I keep finding forged internals online for the 2.4 and im wondering if that would be a better option. Also should I just run a stand alone aftermarket ECU to run the Ecotec or use the factory system? I dont want to squirrel the igntion cylinder into the glove box like ive seen a few people on here do.


No. The problem is that many places misreport the internals as being forged, when they are sintered (often referred to as sinter-forged).

The factory ECU should be fine for running either the 2.2, 2.0, or 2.4 engines. The main issue is if you wish to use any SIDI engines, where the factory ECU has not been sufficiently reverse engineered to program, and after-market ECUs lack direct injection support.
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Lunatic
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Report this Post09-04-2015 06:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LunaticClick Here to Email LunaticSend a Private Message to LunaticEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWillie:

Is there any real difference between a 2.2L Ecotec and a 2.4L? I keep finding forged internals online for the 2.4 and im wondering if that would be a better option. Also should I just run a stand alone aftermarket ECU to run the Ecotec or use the factory system? I dont want to squirrel the igntion cylinder into the glove box like ive seen a few people on here do.


No offense but it seems like you need to do way more reading on engine internals and swaps before you begin. I don't mean to be harsh but it sounds like you lack information and experience. Why are you thinking of forged internal parts at this time? From the sounds of it, I think you should get a stock, normally aspirated Ecotec, install it and get it running first. In my opinion, buy yourself a complete Ecotec powered donor car. Keep the driveline, wiring, PCM, etc. Mock up the engine and trans on the cradle, make (or buy) some mounts and use the stock PCM. If the stock PCM is good enough for GM, then it's good enough for us. There are workarounds for the ignition and you don't need to "squirrel it into the glove box", like one member did. That was a temporary thing he did while working on the swap and he now has only the stock Fiero ignition. Speed shops with HP Tuners can turn of VATS in the stock Cavalier/Sunfire PCM's for little money. Ignition squirreling averted!

While we're all here to help each other out, many questions can be searched and found in this great forum.

-Ecotec has a unique bellhousing and must use an Ecotec transaxle.
-If using the matching Ecotec F23 manual transaxle, the stock Fiero axles fit right it.
-Roger Thelin used to offer a complete bolt-in swap mount kit. I believe it was for manual transaxle's only.
-If using a manual trans, proper shift cables may be necessary. California push-pull offers custom made cables that fit.
-Wiring is easy. Use the PCM that came with the donor car and marry it to the Fiero harness.
-Stock Fiero cooling system is also kept.

There it is in a nut shell. Have fun with your swap! Be sure to document everything, take many pictures and we look forward to your build thread.
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