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These pics say "safety" to me... Fiero VS telephone pole - Head on. by Rsvl-Rider
Started on: 04-29-2015 09:18 PM
Replies: 26 (984 views)
Last post by: hyperv6 on 05-06-2015 07:12 AM
Rsvl-Rider
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Report this Post04-29-2015 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rsvl-RiderSend a Private Message to Rsvl-RiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I saw this 88 coupe at Pick N Pull today. Looks like a straight on shot to a telephone pole at high speed. Look at how far the damage extends into the front trunk / mechanical area and then look at the passenger compartment. I didn't think to measure the intrusion. Wish I had, but you can see from the pics it is extensive. In the passenger compartment the steering wheel collapsed (as I suppose it was designed to) but the whole floorboard up to and including the firewall on both sides was intact. The seats were firmly attached, the foot pedals did not appear to be disturbed from their normal position and both doors were operational. The dash cluster had a broken lower mount and was jammed up to the tilt lever a bit but other than that it was in surprisingly good condition. (the dash was actually closer to it's true position than the pic shows, but I had already taken the bolts out and jimmied it around a bit before the picture was taken). The windshield was broken but I don't think it was an impact from the inside.

I could almost believe the driver might have walked away from this one (no, there was no blood to be found) It gives me a good feeling to think that he did. I don't have any idea who that might be, but I sent out a personal thought of thanks to Hulki.










------------------
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Report this Post04-29-2015 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, I find that seeing cars at the wreckers in that kind of condition to be be rather sobering.

 
quote
Originally posted by Rsvl-Rider:

The windshield was broken but I don't think it was an impact from the inside.




Looks like that's where the driver's head would hit in a straight-on collision (if it was going to). What makes you suspect that this isn't what occurred here?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-29-2015).]

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Rsvl-Rider
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Report this Post04-29-2015 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rsvl-RiderSend a Private Message to Rsvl-RiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It was a pin-point impact and off-center from where the drivers head would normally be. Speaking from experience, the human head makes a more dish shaped impact point and protrusion.

[This message has been edited by Rsvl-Rider (edited 04-29-2015).]

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Report this Post04-29-2015 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The spare tire was actually part of the front-end collapse calculation. You can see why on that car.
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Report this Post04-29-2015 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rsvl-Rider:

It was a pin-point impact and off-center from where the drivers head would normally be.




 
quote
Originally posted by Rsvl-Rider:
Speaking from experience, the human head makes a more dish shaped impact point and protrusion.


Ouch...
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Slammed
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Report this Post04-30-2015 05:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Look at the steering wheel. Guy at least broke his arms from locking them straight against the steering wheel.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post04-30-2015 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Having a similar crash myself. I hit a van not a pole but head on like this.

I can tell that the driver had no belt on as the wheel is bent. Odds are there were no broken arms as I bent my wheel over the turn signal with nothing but bruises.

Now I expect that he went forward hard enough that the break in the windshield was from his head. The dash pod is also broken and bent up.

The poles looks mostly centered with a slight offset. The car may have been it is in the middle with a slight offset to the drivers side in motion from going off the road. The van I hit it did a similar hit. Just more flat but I was more to the right side as I was trying to turn to the left as far as I could with out going into the ditch.

My neighbor used to have a towing company and we used to go over the cars to figure out what happened.

This may not have been a very high speed impact either but you can tell in a Fiero as the roof will deform a little right at the top of the curve and the roof will push up. Hitting in the middle absorbed much of this too so that may have masked it. If he had hit a little more off to the side the folding may have been worse.

By the way since my crash I use my belt. I got lucky once.

Note too the wheels may have been turned as the wheel is bent on one side as mine was. When you go over the top what ever part of the wheel is up gets bent. In this case it was not on center and that may account for the slight offset in the impact.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 04-30-2015).]

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Report this Post04-30-2015 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wonder how fast it was.

Reminds me of this faster one, cant rememebr ever finding the story about it though.



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Report this Post04-30-2015 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Wonder how fast it was.

Reminds me of this faster one, cant rememebr ever finding the story about it though.





The driver actually posted here. It was probably ten years ago. He had a cast on his lower leg, but was otherwise pretty much okay.
I forget if he hit a pole (I think) or a tree.
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Report this Post04-30-2015 11:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rsvl-RiderSend a Private Message to Rsvl-RiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Now I expect that he went forward hard enough that the break in the windshield was from his head. The dash pod is also broken and bent up.



As I said earlier, the dash pod is out of position because I jimmied it up there. I removed the supporting bolts and pushed it up there to get access to some parts.

The damage to the windshield was not the result of a head impact. I sat in the car before I took the seats out and the position is completely wrong. There is no way the driver would have impacted the glass at that spot. With or without seat belts. And there is no way the drivers body could have broken the steering wheel - and- impacted the windshield in the area of the broken glass. And again, the damage to the glass is pin-point. If you actually saw the damage, as I did, you would see that it was the result of an external force that initially stuck the glass in a very finely focused way.
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Report this Post04-30-2015 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Wonder how fast it was.

Reminds me of this faster one, cant rememebr ever finding the story about it though.



I am somewhat confident in saying that was Fie Ro's car after reading it somewhere, after the re-posts in the thread I link to below.. I hear mention that it was at 60-70MPH at the time of impact.

There is another thread HERE that covers a LOT of Fiero accidents with analysis and photos.

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Report this Post05-01-2015 06:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting thread... though how safe the car absorbed the impact is hard to judge without knowing the speed at which it hit the pole. This damage at 55 MPH would be far more impressive than this damage at 30 MPH for example
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hyperv6
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Report this Post05-01-2015 07:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rsvl-Rider:


As I said earlier, the dash pod is out of position because I jimmied it up there. I removed the supporting bolts and pushed it up there to get access to some parts.

The damage to the windshield was not the result of a head impact. I sat in the car before I took the seats out and the position is completely wrong. There is no way the driver would have impacted the glass at that spot. With or without seat belts. And there is no way the drivers body could have broken the steering wheel - and- impacted the windshield in the area of the broken glass. And again, the damage to the glass is pin-point. If you actually saw the damage, as I did, you would see that it was the result of an external force that initially stuck the glass in a very finely focused way.



I will accept the dash damage since you did it but not the wheel.

Having broken the wheel in my Fiero in a worst fashion it is easy to do unbelted. As for the glass I will take your word since you were there but unbelted drivers generally hit the windshield. I know at times it is hard to understand but the G forces of a crash can make a human body do some amazing things.

Note when I hit and broke my wheel I did not hit the glass with my head but my Radar detector and hand did and broke it in two places. My Impact even as bad as it was did not break the radiator and I drove it home. But it did mash the batter internally enough to short it out and it no longer would hold a charge.
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Report this Post05-01-2015 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Yup, this was mine, I hugged a tree at +/- 50mph....
And just like hyperv6 I bent my steeringwheel severly with my body, no seatbelts. Since then I always wear seatbelts, even for a real short drive around the corner.


edit: found interior pics

[This message has been edited by Fie Ro (edited 05-01-2015).]

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Report this Post05-01-2015 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I was pulling some parts off a Fiero at a local place I asked the guy, it was just a parts car at a persons house who was parting it out. he said the car had been run over by an 18 wheeler, but the passenger compartment was intact and no blood anywhere.

Steve

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Report this Post05-01-2015 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:

edit: found interior pics



Thanks for the pics anfd info Fie Ro!
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Report this Post05-01-2015 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know a guy who wrapped his Fiero around a tree at about 40 mph. The front end did the accordion collapse and he didn't break any bones or sustain any body injury.......BUT......it had a factory sunroof that shattered on impact, came down and sliced his face open. He needed about 50 stitches to stop the bleeding. While Fieros are safe cars, I am not so sure how the sunroof figures into the equation.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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Report this Post05-02-2015 03:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I know a guy who wrapped his Fiero around a tree at about 40 mph. The front end did the accordion collapse and he didn't break any bones or sustain any body injury.......BUT......it had a factory sunroof that shattered on impact, came down and sliced his face open. He needed about 50 stitches to stop the bleeding. While Fieros are safe cars, I am not so sure how the sunroof figures into the equation.



That is an interesting question. Did he wear seatbelts? In my occasion the windshield, sidewindows and sunroof shattered but my body went forwards so I had lots of glass on the top of my head instead of right in my face. I wonder now if the sunroof is made of regular or safety (laminated) glass.
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Report this Post05-02-2015 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:


That is an interesting question. Did he wear seatbelts? In my occasion the windshield, sidewindows and sunroof shattered but my body went forwards so I had lots of glass on the top of my head instead of right in my face. I wonder now if the sunroof is made of regular or safety (laminated) glass.



Only the windshields in all cars a laminated for safety.

Some side window today now have the lamination for sound and to contain the air bags but no to the degree the windshield it. Back then just safety glass

The sunroofs are all safety glass.

How many here have started wearing a belt after their crash? After doing that myself I highly recommend them as you have no idea how hard you get tossed till you hit something at speed. You are not going to hold yourself in place trust me.

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Report this Post05-02-2015 04:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Seat Belts for the most part are insurance you won't get beat up too bad. But keep in mind that there are circumstances where they can cut through a major artery in your neck, or in high speed collisions, cause permanent paralysis from the waist down. It is highly recommended that wrap around sleeve be put on the belt at the neck location for you protection. It is also highly recommended that due to the very old age of your vehicle, that you test your seat belts to be sure they are functioning properly (go into lock mode when strap is jerked). Also inspect for any slight fraying of web material, because tears will occur at that location.

The best insurance is pay attention to the road/traffic and do not drive above your limits (and don't test those limits on public roads).

For it's time the Fiero fantastic crash protection.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 05-02-2015).]

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Report this Post05-05-2015 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:


That is an interesting question. Did he wear seatbelts? In my occasion the windshield, sidewindows and sunroof shattered but my body went forwards so I had lots of glass on the top of my head instead of right in my face. I wonder now if the sunroof is made of regular or safety (laminated) glass.


Can't say for sure. After running into him with his face stitched up, I didn't ask all the details. His car had after-market racing seats so maybe his position behind the wheel had something to do with it. If you claim that you were not cut when your sunroof shattered then I guess that in an Fiero accident, cuts become a roll of the dice.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post05-05-2015 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Laminated windshields have been around a while.
" Henry Ford solved the problem of flying debris by using the new French technology of glass laminating. Windshields made using this process were two layers of glass with a cellulose inner layer. This inner layer held the glass together when it fractured. Between 1919 and 1929, Ford ordered the use of laminated glass on all of his vehicles"
-wiki
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Report this Post05-05-2015 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:

I wonder now if the sunroof is made of regular or safety (laminated) glass.


At an autocross event last summer, I had removed my sunroof (for ventilation and weight reduction) and had placed it on the tarmac with my other stuff. Even though my stuff was easy to see, and was placed where it was supposed to be... some dolt ran over my sunroof. I was about 100 ft away and it sounded like a gun had gone off. It was pretty loud. I wouldn't have recognized my sunroof except for the fact that I could see the latch assembly amongst the thousands of little tiny pieces of glass.
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Report this Post05-05-2015 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well.....that means it is made of tempered glass....some call it 'safety' glass, but it is not laminated.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post05-05-2015 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:

Seat Belts for the most part are insurance you won't get beat up too bad. But keep in mind that there are circumstances where they can cut through a major artery in your neck, or in high speed collisions, cause permanent paralysis from the waist down. It is highly recommended that wrap around sleeve be put on the belt at the neck location for you protection. It is also highly recommended that due to the very old age of your vehicle, that you test your seat belts to be sure they are functioning properly (go into lock mode when strap is jerked). Also inspect for any slight fraying of web material, because tears will occur at that location.

The best insurance is pay attention to the road/traffic and do not drive above your limits (and don't test those limits on public roads).

For it's time the Fiero fantastic crash protection.



Belts main reasons are to keep you off the windshield and in the car.

So many times when a car rolls over the driver is ejected and the damage done is much worse than being paralyzed or bleeding out.

You can pay attention all you like but some idiot can end your life with a move you can do nothing about.

I had it happen twice with people pulling out in front of me and no where for me to go. The one I hit the other I was able to lock down the brakes till I got into stones at a intersection the antilock could not handle and went nose first into a ditch. If I had hit him in the side I would have killed him and done a great deal of damage to may self. The state trooper was amazed I missed him. He was texting by the way.

The fact is you are at risk anytime you are on the road and you cut the risk with every safety device you use but the fact is there is nothing at times and nothing is 100%.
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Report this Post05-05-2015 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
HyperV6, no offense, but I don't know why you chose to quote me, neither of us has really said anything wrong.

I've had many years in Automotive Engineering, a great many regarding seat belt systems, IP Design. and Vehicle Crash Worthiness regarding occupant protection. I know what the systems can and can't don't under various crash conditions.

I will correct you on one item though, the "main purpose" of the Seat Belt in the Fiero was not to prevent you from hitting the Windshield, that was a secondary item. The main purpose was to keep the body from hitting the Steering Wheel, IP, and A Pillars, or a least slow the energy of impact to prevent serious injury. If you are hitting the windshield that would mean you've already made previous contact with one or more of these items.
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Report this Post05-06-2015 07:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:

HyperV6, no offense, but I don't know why you chose to quote me, neither of us has really said anything wrong.

I've had many years in Automotive Engineering, a great many regarding seat belt systems, IP Design. and Vehicle Crash Worthiness regarding occupant protection. I know what the systems can and can't don't under various crash conditions.

I will correct you on one item though, the "main purpose" of the Seat Belt in the Fiero was not to prevent you from hitting the Windshield, that was a secondary item. The main purpose was to keep the body from hitting the Steering Wheel, IP, and A Pillars, or a least slow the energy of impact to prevent serious injury. If you are hitting the windshield that would mean you've already made previous contact with one or more of these items.


I know who you are and what you do and was a little shocked at how you pointed out two things that the odds of probability are very small at happening as to the big picture of what will happen.

It was not to correct you but more to prevent the anti seat belt people [You know the guy that would rather be thrown clear or I do not want to be trapped in my car as it sinks in the lake guy} with using that as an excuse. There is always someone who will try to take the lowest odd case and try to change the support for the most obvious. Lets face it the rupture artery is not something that is very common and the odds small.

Sorry if you took it that way but it was not directed at you.

Actually the belts main purpose is to keep the occupant in the seat and not hit anything. If you are the driver the wheel, the passenger the windshield, a rear seat occupant the front seat and passengers and in extreme cases the windshield or anything else in the way. The secondary is to remain in the car. I just love the crashes on TV and you see the body get tossed out as it flips. They too often show the ones that get up and walk away. I saw one from the Middle East where they were tossed out and the bodies were torn apart as they cam out as the roll was so violent. It was only a Toyota too.

As you said neither are wrong but I just did not want to let someone try to use a rare case as an excuse.

You do not need to be an engineer to understand the cause and effect here but yet many think they can hold on and do not understand the power of G forces unless you have been there.

My point was just not to give any excuses as I was stupid and learned the hard way and do not want anyone to have as bad or even worse happen. I was young, strong and dumb before the crash and after I was lucky to be bruised battered, bloody and smarter.

Sorry if it came out the wrong way I hope you understand where I was going.
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