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California Emissions by DavesRedFiero
Started on: 03-23-2015 10:57 PM
Replies: 15 (437 views)
Last post by: Notorio on 03-28-2015 12:09 PM
DavesRedFiero
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Report this Post03-23-2015 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavesRedFieroClick Here to Email DavesRedFieroSend a Private Message to DavesRedFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hello everyone. I was hoping some of our California members might be able to help me. I am retiring back home to California in the near future, but I'm not sure if I will be allowed to register the Fiero due to emission standards. It's an 85 GT with a 92 4.9. I kept the EFI and the cat. Is this going to be a big headache to register it in CA? Thanks!
David
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dratts
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Report this Post03-23-2015 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think the requirement is that the engine has to be newer than the car it is going into with all the engines original smog equipment. Probably has to pass the tailpipe test too.
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cyrus88
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Report this Post03-23-2015 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cyrus88Send a Private Message to cyrus88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What dratts said

plus your exhaust manifolds have to be stock to the engine (or have an E.O number). If the 4.9 donor was from an automatic only transmission car, you probably will not be able to use a manual transmission. Contact the California BAR referee and ask them what you need to get it approved.
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thesameguy
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Report this Post03-24-2015 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
it will be a minor headache. The engine needs to be newer than the car and the engine has to retain all of its factory emissions equipment - though you are allowed some leeway for packaging considerations. You'll need to take the car to a BAR Referee who will inspect it and smog test it and then issue a sticker saying it's a-ok. After that, you can register it. Bring as much documentation as you can, showing where the engine came from (a VIN is VERY helpful) and call out any modifications you made and why (eg, "block hugger headers because the stock manifolds physically don't fit") and there's a good chance you'll breeze right through. There is no crazy costs, just a couple hours spent on a weekday while a tech (they are usually decent) crawls through the car to figure out what you did.
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DavesRedFiero
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Report this Post03-24-2015 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavesRedFieroClick Here to Email DavesRedFieroSend a Private Message to DavesRedFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys! I appreciate your time. Your information has been very helpful. The fact that I kept the 4 speed when I put in the 4.9 worries me a little. The local office told my brother that would be a major problem, but didn't know how much confidence I could have in that information. So, it has brought up the difficult decision of taking it with us or selling it here.
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mmeyer86gt/gtp
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Report this Post03-24-2015 07:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mmeyer86gt/gtpClick Here to Email mmeyer86gt/gtpSend a Private Message to mmeyer86gt/gtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
because the 4.9 never came with a manual transmission it will fail. sorry.

reason i have a 3800 with an automatic.

[This message has been edited by mmeyer86gt/gtp (edited 03-24-2015).]

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IMSA GT
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Report this Post03-24-2015 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mmeyer86gt/gtp:

because the 4.9 never came with a manual transmission it will fail. sorry.


This is correct. It has to be converted back to auto.
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DavesRedFiero
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Report this Post03-24-2015 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavesRedFieroClick Here to Email DavesRedFieroSend a Private Message to DavesRedFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks everyone. It looks like my baby is going to go up for sale. I appreciate all your input.
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Notorio
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Report this Post03-24-2015 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That transmission requirement really makes me mad. Does anyone know if an auto enthusiast group has ever seriously tried to lobby Sacramento?
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DavesRedFiero
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Report this Post03-24-2015 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DavesRedFieroClick Here to Email DavesRedFieroSend a Private Message to DavesRedFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was surprised by that too, Notorio. I kept all the EFI and smog equipment on the engine for the purpose of taking it back to CA someday. I had no idea that the transmission would cause a problem. Oh well. I will post it in the Mall sometime soon. Thanks guys.
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dratts
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Report this Post03-25-2015 08:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had forgotten about the tranny match requirement. I'm lucky that I live in Wa. now. My turbo ls4 would never pass Ca. I shouldn't have any problem revisiting Ca. this summer with my out of state registered car though right?
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Report this Post03-25-2015 10:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

I had forgotten about the tranny match requirement. I'm lucky that I live in Wa. now. My turbo ls4 would never pass Ca. I shouldn't have any problem revisiting Ca. this summer with my out of state registered car though right?


If you see a drone hovering over you, head for the border!.....
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thesameguy
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Report this Post03-25-2015 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would not get hung up on the tranny issue. It is not an automatic fail as has been suggested. I have swapped transmissions on *numerous* cars and never once had a smog problem. It is only *necessarily* a problem if emissions control is wrapped up somehow in the transmission - like the ECM and TCM are the same module, or communicate back and forth. This is obviously very common (unavoidable!) on newer cars, but not necessarily on older cars. If you can demonstrate (a letter from the manufacturer is VERY helpful) that the two are unrelated, they won't hold you up on this. Even if there is in fact a link between the two, the referees have enormous leeway in what they pass and what they don't. It's just as likely as not you get a tech on a good day who doesn't think it's a problem on a 23 year old motor. This of course is the horrible reality of the system - it's all personal opinion. If you get an angry tech you're hosed no matter what you do. Be as nice and helpful as you can.

Edit:

Here is the Official Word:

https://www.bar.ca.gov/Indu...ange_Guidelines.html

Note there is no mention of "transmission," only the vague description "Mixing and matching emission control system components could cause problems and is generally not allowed," "No internal or external engine modifications." and "The installed engine and host chassis must retain all of their original emission control equipment." The transmission is only a problem if (on that day) the tech defines it as part of the emissions control equipment. On a pre-OBDII car, you've definitely got wiggle room.

[This message has been edited by thesameguy (edited 03-25-2015).]

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Notorio
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Report this Post03-26-2015 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, there is some hope then as long as the donor vehicle is OB1. I suppose the 3800SC Gen1 meets that minimum requirement and the newer models don't? Perhaps one should get an appointment with their local tech and run through everything before starting the project ...
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thesameguy
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Report this Post03-26-2015 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

So, there is some hope then as long as the donor vehicle is OB1. I suppose the 3800SC Gen1 meets that minimum requirement and the newer models don't? Perhaps one should get an appointment with their local tech and run through everything before starting the project ...


The only reason there is hope is because the "preview" won't work. There is no point in running your scenario by a tech because the only opinion that matters is the tech's that actually evaluates the finished project. The only hard & fast rule is that emissions stuff present on the engine in its native environment is present on the finished product. Everything else is up for debate. What one tech will pass may not fly with another, one tech might miss something that another does not. But once that sticker is on the car you're golden. I've seen people get absolutely ridiculous "should never work" scenarios through BAR and other people get shot down for totally legitimate work. If you go in there with all your ducks in a row and a smile on your face and you get a good tech you can "get away" with a lot. But, sadly, you can never know what will work until you've tried it. It does make these engine swaps projects *really* difficult. You can invest mountains of time and do everything by the book and get shot down for no good reason.

Truly, though, most of the people I've dealt with at the ref station are good folks and they want to pass your car as much as you want them to pass it. If you've put in good effort and haven't ignored the guidelines it usually turns out ok.
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Notorio
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Report this Post03-28-2015 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very interesting! This really alters my perception of the situation much for the better. I was going to go with the 3.4L block upgrade but will definitely put the 3800SC w/5 spd back on the long-term table ... thanks!
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