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Pop-Up Headlights Aerodynamics Video by Jncomutt
Started on: 02-26-2015 11:26 AM
Replies: 17 (638 views)
Last post by: jediperk on 03-01-2015 04:54 PM
Jncomutt
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Report this Post02-26-2015 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did a search and didn't see this posted, maybe I missed it?

Check out this video about aerodynamics and pop-up headlights...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFDZCIYe3RY
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infinitewill
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Report this Post02-26-2015 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 03-19-2015).]

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no2pencil
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Report this Post02-26-2015 12:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for no2pencilClick Here to Email no2pencilSend a Private Message to no2pencilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by infinitewill:
Unless I missed it, it didn't mention our cars once but then again we are the only ones that pay attention to them in the first place

Watching it now, but when he listed 'cars used' he listed Corvette, Ferrari, the 911, & Japanese cars. The then listed some examples of Japanese cars. All results (as I'm watching now) all test values are from Corvettes.

Still interesting to watch!
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theogre
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Report this Post02-26-2015 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Popups made Fiero and others low drag design possible w/ standard Seal Beam HL like H6054. Car makers had few choices of HL back then. 84 Fiero came out in 1983. plant to make them took 1-2 years before they made the first car. Fiero Design started in 1970's.

Aero isn't only reason why they went away... Any Aero HL are much cheaper to make then any Popups or Covers using Seal Beam.
Popups cost GM and others Big Money to develop and make the car.
Then they had to keep parts for years so Dealers etc can fix problems... That cost more money for GM.
Gen 1 HL then GM had to keep the motors, relays, etc, in the dealer service inventory. GM had to fix many within 1-5 years.
Is part of why Gen 2 motor system was made... Simple design motors and 1 module to control them. Cheaper to make and less parts in inventory. Less problems too.

Plus it is getting harder and harder to find Seal Beam lamps at many stores. Philips no longer makes any Seal Beam except 2 LED types.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-26-2015).]

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Report this Post02-26-2015 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Popups made Fiero and others low drag design possible w/ standard Seal Beam HL like H6054. Car makers had few choices of HL back then. 84 Fiero came out in 1983. plant to make them took 1-2 years before they made the first car. Fiero Design started in 1970's.

Aero isn't only reason why they went away... Any Aero HL are much cheaper to make then any Popups or Covers using Seal Beam.
Popups cost GM and others Big Money to develop and make the car.
Then they had to keep parts for years so Dealers etc can fix problems... That cost more money for GM.
Gen 1 HL then GM had to keep the motors, relays, etc, in the dealer service inventory. GM had to fix many within 1-5 years.
Is part of why Gen 2 motor system was made... Simple design motors and 1 module to control them. Cheaper to make and less parts in inventory. Less problems too.

Plus it is getting harder and harder to find Seal Beam lamps at many stores. Philips no longer makes any Seal Beam except 2 LED types.


That may well be true, but after seeing invoices of new car headlight "pods" one has to wonder..

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Patrick
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Report this Post02-26-2015 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

There were times I wanted to force-feed the host of the video a couple cups of coffee , but nevertheless I found the video to be quite interesting.
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doublec4
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Report this Post02-26-2015 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like a good thread to show off my flushmount headlights. Thanks for the interesting and informative post!

Save yourself the extra drag!

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Check out my build and my website!
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000100.html
Embrace Racing

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dobey
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Report this Post02-26-2015 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
That may well be true, but after seeing invoices of new car headlight "pods" one has to wonder..


Retail != production cost. You'd also need to adjust for inflation, and consider the cost of replacing, and/or producing, the entire assembly rather than just the sealed lamp to make a proper comparison.

Molded plastic is going to be quite a bit cheaper to produce than any pop-up light. The engineering costs are much lower. The OEMs also make extra coin by licensing to aftermarket light production companies.
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Report this Post02-27-2015 07:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I never drive my Fiero at night so its a moot point for me. The 1970 Opel GT that I owned had a unique pop up headlight design, they didn't pop up they rotated open with a mechanical lever, no motors to worry about.
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Report this Post02-27-2015 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
That may well be true, but after seeing invoices of new car headlight "pods" one has to wonder..

Your cost to buy a part is nothing to GM etc except mainly profit to GM.
Cost to Car Markers is a lot lower. Even made by 3rd party, GM buys 100,000 or more per Quarter.

Many Aero HL modules are often contains all lights, pre-aimed and installed as one whole part at the car's factory.
Most Popups have the motor and other moving parts and whatever to control that.
Some used Vacuum "Motors" to work and have their own issues.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-27-2015).]

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E.Furgal
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Report this Post02-27-2015 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Your cost to buy a part is nothing to GM etc except mainly profit to GM.
Cost to Car Markers is a lot lower. Even made by 3rd party, GM buys 100,000 or more per Quarter.

Many Aero HL modules are often contains all lights, pre-aimed and installed as one whole part at the car's factory.
Most Popups have the motor and other moving parts and whatever to control that.
Some used Vacuum "Motors" to work and have their own issues.


I understand the workings but when A headlight unit jobber price(bodyshop) is 2543.56
for a plastic, no moving parts, part..
I'll lable it under takes less time on the line,, line moves faster,, and even then..
it's more likely the regulations of "chance" of harm to pedestrian, and the lawyer dept. of the oem's over engineering cost..
all I know is I hate the areo lights housings ,can't see them holding up long term,, not that the O.E.m.'s care about that..
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Report this Post02-27-2015 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I bought my 2004 Venture van last year the headlight and turn signal pod assemblies were faded and worn. I was able to buy all 4 pods for about a $100 total and the replacements look great.
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Report this Post02-27-2015 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Csjag:

When I bought my 2004 Venture van last year the headlight and turn signal pod assemblies were faded and worn. I was able to buy all 4 pods for about a $100 total and the replacements look great.


$1,824.40 - BMW of Bridgewater one unit..
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Report this Post02-27-2015 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


$1,824.40 - BMW of Bridgewater one unit..


Yeah. BMW. Dealer. Everything from BMW is overpriced.

I bought two new headlight housings for my Avalanche to be able to play with some ideas I have for a projector design, as I don't really like any of the aftermarket designs that much. Both of them together was about $150 shipped. People are trying to sell OEM units from wrecked trucks for more than that on eBay. These are "reproduction" units, but they look like they were made from the OEM molds. Probably one of the companies that produced them for GM.
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Report this Post02-28-2015 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
$1,824.40 - BMW of Bridgewater one unit..

many normal OEMs are $100-$500 each.
I had work done on Kia... cost $202 and was complete w/ all bulbs. That is OEM part too, not aftermarket.

Some are high because Aero part have HID projectors as one piece of whole thing from OEM/Dealer, then you add Dealer etc markup...
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Report this Post02-28-2015 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Csjag:

I never drive my Fiero at night so its a moot point for me. The 1970 Opel GT that I owned had a unique pop up headlight design, they didn't pop up they rotated open with a mechanical lever, no motors to worry about.


plus the workout your arm got moving the lever to get the lights to pop up!
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Report this Post02-28-2015 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Grantman:


plus the workout your arm got moving the lever to get the lights to pop up!


Good exercise
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jediperk
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Report this Post03-01-2015 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Yeah. BMW. Dealer. Everything from BMW is overpriced.



I think BMW does this on purpose to help perpetuate and profit from class (snobbery) warfare. They do not want their older cars being driven by the "poor" so as to tarnish the image so they price the parts ridiculously high...
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