Well our cars are getting old. A bit of a dilemma replacing stock tires for my Formula. Currently running Bridgestone Pontenzas but they have been dis-continued in the 205/6015 and 215/60/15 sizes. The 15"diameter is becoming a problem. It looks like I am going to be replacing with Michelin Defender XT 215/60/15 all around. They’re all season passenger tires. This Formula is my son’s daily driver and he uses year round plus on dry pavement primarily in the Minnesota winter. Not worrying about keeping stock. I am also thinking of moving up to 16” diameter tires which gives me more choices in a performance tire(s).
My concern is replacing the stock tires for my low miles Formula and 88 GT show cars come summer. The GT is currently running Bridgestone Turanzas. I am wondering what you guys have done or are doing to address this issue? (I do have two sets of low mile Goodyear Eagle GT+4s for show use only.)
Those really soft summer high performance tires are all gone in the 15" staggered size for 88s... Fieros really like those on the front. What you can still get are all season tires with a UTQG # of 400 instead of 250.
I put the Fuzions on my 87 GT when I last changed the tires on it, because they were cheap and had decent wear ratings, and I had the plan at the time of switching to larger wheels/tires and bolt pattern, at the time. Never got around to going with larger stuff, and now I'm wanting to keep the stock wheels for the sleeper look when I do my swap. The tires have performed decently for street driving, though I only ever put a few thousand miles on them, and never drove it in snow or rain.
I have a set of Sumitomo HTR on my Avalanche, and they are also great tires. Have a set of Kumho Ecsta on my del Sol as well, and they are also great, though I haven't gotten to drive it much since I got those tires on it, due to a couple things that will make it fail a state inspection.
This conversation is happening all over the internet right now. 15" tires are disappearing from the market. I think the bulk of cars with 15" tires were sold around fifteen years ago - cars just got too big and too heavy to ride on such small wheels. There are some smaller cars sold today with 15s - my Fiat 500e has 185/55-15s - but they are not what you'd call sporty tires.
This phenomenon is kind of funny in Miata circles because Miata owners used to upgrade to 15" tires, and now they can't even get those. After snickering at my friend for years while he tried to find good tires for his MR2, I ended up in the same boat in '13 shopping for the Fiero. Lack of availability led to me to move to 17s. At least the Fiero has a common bolt pattern and giant wheel wells - my 245/45-17s look great!
You can buy a variety of 205/60-15s still as that was a popular size on larger cars and minivans for a long time, but wider 15" tires that are any good are getting scarce. If you don't mind non-staggered tires you still have some choices in a 225/50-15 but that's really about it.
If nothing else, be happy you don't need tires for a '62 Falcon. Tried shopping 13" or even 14" tires lately? Pretty soon, you'll be able to get "vintage 15" tires" from Coker for $200/ea. :P
[This message has been edited by thesameguy (edited 01-13-2015).]
Those really soft summer high performance tires are all gone in the 15" staggered size for 88s... Fieros really like those on the front. What you can still get are all season tires with a UTQG # of 400 instead of 250.
Back in the day (early/mid 90's) I ran Bridgestone Potenza RE-71's in stock sizes on my '88 GT & Formula. They were the best tire I have ever used.....they had a 140 UTQG and only lasted a year or so, but they made the car handle brilliantly.
Today I use those Ohtsu tires by Falken. They're cheap and are OK, but nothing to write home about. At some point I will have to upgrade to 17's, but I like the looks of the stock wheels so I'll keep holding out to the bitter end.
I had a phone interview with a Goodyear recruiter a while back and of course tires came up. I told him my 88 Fiero GT had been driven on nothing but Goodyear Eagle GT or GT+4 and I was diappointed they were discontinued. I believe the only Fiero option from them is a Kelly tire (charger?) now.
Supply and demand. If demand decreases some will probably discontinue that size(s). But the one or a few that remain will probably see an increase in sales and will maybe/probably keep making them. Possibly a company could be persuaded to start making a size or sizes if a group petitions them and can prove no other company is making that size(s) and the demand is there. If no company produces a certain size no company can determine there is demand for that size(s) if no one notifies them.
Recently bought Goodrich T/A's in 215/60-14 for a '86SE. I believe Goodrich still sells them in 205/60-15 and 215/60-15 for your '88. Additionally, there are other brands available for the 205/60-15 an 215/60-15, but the choices for the 215/60-14 are very, very slim at best.
The set of Goodrich T/A, 215/60-14, ran about $525 w/ lifetime balance and rotate at Discount Tire. Not cheap, not the best tire out there, look ok, handling is fair to good, braking good. Best part is they are the factory size tires and wheels and look good on the car, if you like it stock.
[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 01-14-2015).]
Originally posted by thesameguy: cars just got too big and too heavy to ride on such small wheels.
Size and weight aren't the driving issues. 5000lb Lincolns and Cadillacs came with 15" tires for decades. It's about style and in some cases performance. The new Camaro doesn't *need* 20" wheels and tires. It was designed that way primarily for style. A smaller wheel/tire combo with the same tread width would give better preformance due to less unsprung weight.
I installed Kelly Charger GT tire on my 1988 GT diamond lace stock wheels last year. Looks like they are still available. They have been great at cornering and on wet roads. Kelly Tires is owned by Goodyear. http://www.kellytires.com/e...988_Pontiac_Fiero_GT
Last summer I replaced the tires on my gt with the General Altimax HP. They are not to bad.
Hey Ross.....were they the orginals or had you replaced them once before? How many miles are you up to now? I'm glad you still have your GT.....I think you are the only person who bought one of my friends Fieros that still owns it. Very cool.
Size and weight aren't the driving issues. 5000lb Lincolns and Cadillacs came with 15" tires for decades. It's about style and in some cases performance. The new Camaro doesn't *need* 20" wheels and tires. It was designed that way primarily for style. A smaller wheel/tire combo with the same tread width would give better preformance due to less unsprung weight.
Tires need to be a particular width in order to support a particular weight. Those old 5000lb Cadillacs rode on 8" bias ply tires that translate roughly to 235/70-15. I have one in my garage. That is a monster tire. Although smaller rolling stock would improve unsprung weight, it would also compromise ride quality and performance. In order to support the weight of modern 3500lb+ cars you need wide tires. In order to give those cars the ride comfort people expect you need a fairly large outer diameter. In order to merge the wide cross section with the large OD and deliver a reasonably competent handler you need less sidewall - you want the suspension performing the duty it was supposed to, not big black rubber balloons acting as an intermediary. When you reduce the sidewall but keep the OD, you need a larger wheel. While it's true aesthetics are a part of the equation and it's true the new Camaro doesn't need 20" wheels, its performance would be a joke running 245/60-15s. You don't see BTCCs running giant '60s-era balloons to save unsprung weight, do you? Somewhere in the middle is probably the optimal answer, and the 20s are about style, but the point is 15s aren't going to cut it anymore. Which is why non-sporting, non-flashy passenger vehicles are still bottoming out at 16" and 17" wheels these days.
This is what the general altimax HP look like on stock gt rims:
Mike, the car now has 3,700 miles on it. This is the first time that the tires were replaced. Old ones still look new but are 25 years old so I am storing them. Why? I don't really now, but it fun having original fiero parts that still look new.
[This message has been edited by RossT (edited 01-15-2015).]
Mike, the car now has 3,700 miles on it. This is the first time that the tires were replaced. Old ones still look new but are 25 years old so I am storing them. Why? I don't really now, but it fun having original fiero parts that still look new.
Heh....one look at your pics and I could tell the mileage was still low (those wheels are in unbelievable shape!). So....3700 miles on it now and it had roughly 900 miles on it 12 or 13 years ago when you bought it, so that's about 2800 miles or roughly 225 miles per year. Man, you're going to wear that thing out!
Barc will be happy to hear how well you've taken care of one of his babies. He loved getting the money when he sold one of his Fieros, but was very sad to see any of them leave the nest. He sold his last one 2 or 3 years ago. Sadly, his collection of 50+ Fieros is no more.
As for keeping old tires.....I'd do the same thing too. Replacing them is a good idea, but keeping the old ones is too. I bought a GT from Barc in 1997 with 10K miles on it and all original. I drove it more than you drove yours and by the time I hit 15K miles (4 or 5 years later) the GT+4's were so hard that I would spin out when I made a turn....on dry pavement! It was scary enough that I bought new tires. I sourced a set of NOS GT+4's which had only been discontinued a few years earlier.
Sorry for babbling on...keep on enjoying your GT and I think I'll give the Altimax HP's a try when my current tires wear out. I have Altimax snow tires on my Yaris and love them, so I know they make good tires.
More of the bigger issue with 205 and 215 widths in 15" is the 60 height ratio. You can find the 70 height ratio all day long as it's still used as a light truck size for various season equipment.
I mention this because back in I believe 2008-ish I had an issue with my 88 Formula where I had a dramatic flat on one of the rear tires and in what was an absolute pinch really needing a replacement set of rears. Somebody I knew hooked me up with a set of all-season 215/70/R15s for the rear wheels. They ended up looking absolutely ridiculous on my Formula though. They "fit" for sure no problem, but they looked incredibly clunky - to the point I'll save you all of posting a photo because of how silly it looked. Going with a 60 height ratio profile or lower is becoming a very difficult endeavor for anything above a 195 width size for 15s.
Somebody I knew hooked me up with a set of all-season 215/70/R15s for the rear wheels. They ended up looking absolutely ridiculous on my Formula though.
Sometime in the early 90's I got the notion that I needed wider tires. I put 225/50's on the front and 245/50's on the rear of my '88 GT......on stock wheels. Talk about ridiculous looking. I drove like that for a few months before swapping them out for a set of stock size tires. I really wish I snapped a picture or two.
The tires seem to have been run underinflated, but perhaps just because of the tires being too wide. The tread in the middle of the tires looks worn down more.
Costco installed the Michelin Defender XTs in 215/60/15s all around on Friday afternoon. Running good so far. Can't wait to see if there is a MPG improvement. This takes care of my immediate need. I may switch to 16-inch wheels at a later date.
Now the low mileage Formula and the GT are a different story. Based upon your suggestions I am going to start keeping my eyes open for the tires I need. My brother-in-law has also sold tires for over 25-years so I will probably have him search his various distributor sources throughout the country. Spring isn't that far away.
This is what the general altimax HP look like on stock gt rims:
Yeah, RossT...over the years on this forum I've seen pics of your 88, or both of them. I gotta say...wow, very clean low milage cars.
You must remember the discussion you mention to me about the 88GT you got here in Canada of some fellow that worked in Oshawa GM services?
Again, very nice fieros deserved to be kept that way...thanks for sharing. Mike, the car now has 3,700 miles on it. This is the first time that the tires were replaced. Old ones still look new but are 25 years old so I am storing them. Why? I don't really now, but it fun having original fiero parts that still look new.
The General Altimax is a very well rated tire and inexpensive. I have them on my 86 GT and 2006 Tiburon. I live in California, so I can evaluate "all weather" conditions, but I'm very pleased with the ride and durability. I think the Altimax is being phased out for a new model, but the latter is still offered in 205 & 215 / 60 / 15.
Pretty soon, you'll be able to get "vintage 15" tires" from Coker for $200/ea. :P
