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Insurance Conundrum by craigtbone
Started on: 11-14-2014 04:52 PM
Replies: 26 (611 views)
Last post by: Fierochic88 on 12-01-2014 12:45 PM
craigtbone
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Report this Post11-14-2014 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for craigtboneClick Here to Email craigtboneSend a Private Message to craigtboneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have owned my Fiero now a little more than 7 years. At some point, I do not recall when, I decided that paying for collision coverage was not worthwhile. Until this past spring with over 40 years of driving I was involved in precisely 1 accident. My '82 Accord was rear-ended while sitting at a traffic light.

The repairs due to this past spring's Fiero accident (hmmm, rear-ended, do I have a target painted on me?), as far as insurance goes, went ok because the hitter had good insurance that paid me. The amount of payment did not cover all of the repair costs but that is simply a result of the low value of Fieros.

So now that I have much more money tied up in this car than it's actual street value I have been looking into insurance again. My body shop said to look into Hagerty. I talked with them and Grundy, as well as my current insurance. Hagerty has an on-line estimator but when you select the type of use, daily driver, it will not give a quote. It will not directly say they do not insure daily drivers. I called them and was told bluntly that they will not insure daily drivers. They will insure to an agreed on value, unlimited miles per year, but not daily driver, cannot drive it to work. Grundy will but I would need to also have at least 2 collector cars insured as well. Hagerty, Grundy, JC Taylor, my insurance company all said essentially the same thing.

How do you all deal with this? I could lie and say it is not a daily driver but what happens if I get hit while driving to or from work? Lie again about where I was driving? I read a few of the recent threads about this issue. Not sure I see a clear solution.

I am willing to pay more for a daily driver but they simply do not provide agreed upon value insurance, only book value for daily drivers. Maybe Pennsylvania is different than most other states?

Any insights are very much appreciated.

Craig T.
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dobey
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Report this Post11-14-2014 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The no daily driver for agreed value collector insurance from Hagerty or Grundy is not state specific. It's a policy they have, no matter which state you're in. I'm not aware of the 2 car requirement with Grundy though.

If your car is a daily driver, you're going to have a difficult time getting agreed value collector insurance. Geico might do something, if they insure in PA, but it will probably be more expensive, but I'm not sure if they have the same daily driver policy.
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Jims88
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Report this Post11-14-2014 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jims88Click Here to Email Jims88Send a Private Message to Jims88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just went through this exact same thing trying to get insurance on my Ls4 Formula.
Hagerty would give me basically what I thought the value would be, but it was 2 times more expensive than my State Farm Insurance coverage.
State Farm has a new Classic/Antique vehicle coverage policy, they will only underwrite the current book value though.

Maybe its just me, but insurance companies always seem to get you coming and going, they want you to be honest and up front, then take advantage of you when filing a claim.
So for me its a no win situation, so I get the lowest cost coverage to get it on the road, and Hope to God; I don't ever have to file a claim, cause their going to screw me anyway.
If I owned 2014 Corvette that cost $65,000 that would be a totally different level of financial loss, so I wouldn't roll the dice on insurance coverage.

I apologize for not adding more value to your post, I just Frickin hate Insurance Companies.
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tebailey
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Report this Post11-14-2014 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a rebodied Fiero, and State Farm gave me a stated value and unlimited mileage. Although I also have 3 other vehicles insured with them. Maybe it's the rebody, or the other cars but our agent gave me a real good rate.
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Report this Post11-14-2014 09:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I use Grundy and insure at least four higher value Meras for less than 100 per month. The stated values for these vehicles range anywhere from $45K to $15 k depending on the restoration process. I do have other vehicles for daily drivers and have to keep the Meras in a garage. Other than that there are few (if any) use restrictions. I previously used American Collector but they had mileage limitations.

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solotwo
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Report this Post11-14-2014 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Michigan people. Try Fremont Ins. We have all our ins with them. They insure the Fiero based on appraised value. We have been real happy with them. They may sell in other states but I am not sure. We use Jason Grubbs here in Grand Rapids. He always finds us insurance that best fits our situation. We were real happy with the settlement on the 88 that was hit by a shinny new BMW( his fault). They gave us what it was appraised for by the appraisal company. At first I thought it was high then I tried to find a 88 coupe in about the same condition and could not find any as good and under $5000. So I settled for a 87 GT with more miles.

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 11-15-2014).]

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no2pencil
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Report this Post11-15-2014 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for no2pencilClick Here to Email no2pencilSend a Private Message to no2pencilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tebailey:
Maybe it's the rebody, or the other cars but our agent gave me a real good rate.

The title is still for a Fiero, so I don't see how the re-body changes anything. My insurance company has never actually looked at my cars, some of them were added over the phone, others were in their office. Never once did they step outside to verify my Blazer looked like a Blazer, or the Fiero looked like a Fiero.
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Report this Post11-15-2014 09:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My agent came by and took pics. guess it depends on you agent.
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Report this Post11-15-2014 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by no2pencil:

The title is still for a Fiero, so I don't see how the re-body changes anything. My insurance company has never actually looked at my cars, some of them were added over the phone, others were in their office. Never once did they step outside to verify my Blazer looked like a Blazer, or the Fiero looked like a Fiero.


I've had agents take pictures or inspect my Mini before, when getting it insured, but not to verify that it was a Mini. The pictures and inspections were to note any existing damage (which there wasn't), in the event of a claim in the future. The Mini was the only car they've done that on though. None of the many other cars I've owned prior, or since, have had that requirement when insuring them, even when I put full coverage on them.
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Report this Post11-15-2014 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your only hope for insuring a daily driver Fiero with a higher value is to get a regular insurance company to insure it at an increased agreed value. No matter what you do you DO NOT want STATED VALUE. That is less than worthless. It is actual cash value with a stated limit. You want AGREED Value.

In my humble opinion it's really not a good idea to have a 30 year old high dollar Fiero as your daily driver. The risk of loss is too great. If you can find a company to insure it, it's not going to be cheap like collector car insurance. Collector car insurance companies manage their risk by knowing that these cars (like mine) spend 99% of the time in the garage. A company like State Farm rating it as as daily driver will rate it like any other car. And if they do it at an agreed value then they have to protect themselves from a loss in case of a total loss. Maybe if you live in a rural area it's not too bad, but I have a close call on the Houston Freeway

BTW I agree with Jims88...insurance companies get you coming and going and it's mostly a rippoff. Like why do I have to pay liability on 7 different vehicle with one driver? Only one can be driven at any given time. That's the reason I like Progressive. The "snapshot" device saved me a lot of money. For OBDII cars at least they monitor it for a month and you pay as the vehicle is actually driven. For me my truck, which mostly sits and was only driven once during the whole period, the rate dropped 30% permanently. My car dropped 15%. Doesn't help for stock Fieros, but I found Progressive's rates to be better than everyone else, and at one time or another I've been with Geico, State Farm, Allstate, Nationwide, and maybe one or two other's I've forgotten about.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-15-2014).]

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Shho13
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Report this Post11-15-2014 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't like Hagerty. Try another company!

Hagerty declined to insure me because apparently am too young to have a collector car. I'm 23 and have been driving for nearly 8 years. I have a dedicated daily driver with no violations to date, knock on wood, so there was no reason for declining me. So, I just slapped some basic insurance on my GT in the meantime until I turn 25, when insurance companies magically decide to not charge as much for insurance and when I will be "allowed" to have a classic car according to my insurance agent. I pay 500 bucks a month for two cars, haha.

A daily driver, I would say is a car driven every day. You would be allowed to drive your classic car to work one or two days a week with no problems. It's not their business where you were driving to... For all they know, there was a car show in your job's parking lot that day.

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Report this Post11-15-2014 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tebailey:

My agent came by and took pics. guess it depends on you agent.



Also depends on whether or not you want comprehensive coverage. For liability only, they probably don't care what kind of car body you have because they don't have to pay to repair it.
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Report this Post11-15-2014 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Shho13:

I don't like Hagerty. Try another company!

Hagerty declined to insure me because apparently am too young to have a collector car. I'm 23 and have been driving for nearly 8 years. I have a dedicated daily driver with no violations to date, knock on wood, so there was no reason for declining me. So, I just slapped some basic insurance on my GT in the meantime until I turn 25, when insurance companies magically decide to not charge as much for insurance and when I will be "allowed" to have a classic car according to my insurance agent. I pay 500 bucks a month for two cars, haha.

A daily driver, I would say is a car driven every day. You would be allowed to drive your classic car to work one or two days a week with no problems. It's not their business where you were driving to... For all they know, there was a car show in your job's parking lot that day.


The insurance industry works on actuarial tables... this is tons of data that tells them the relative risk of things. Don't take it personal but the average 23 year old male is not into collecting cars, so they have no data on that and therefore you are too risky for them. Most Collector car policies won't even look at you until you are 25.

As for driving the car to work...that's risky. It IS their business where you were on the way to. You sign a contract that says you will not drive this car to work. Driving in rush hour traffic is orders of magnitude more risky than a casual Sunday drive. If you wreck on the way to work they may not cover it. Damage to your own vehicle is bad enough , but heaven forbid you kill someone and get sued for a million dollars. No insurance coverage and your life is ruined.

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Report this Post11-15-2014 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Shho13:


Hagerty declined to insure me because apparently am too young to have a collector car. I'm 23 and have been driving for nearly 8 years.



Hagerty required 10 years driving experience when I had my vehicles insured with them. I could have gotten some sort of experience wavier but it would have been at an additional cost to me.

Nelson
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Report this Post11-15-2014 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
The insurance industry works on actuarial tables... this is tons of data that tells them the relative risk of things. Don't take it personal but the average 23 year old male is not into collecting cars, so they have no data on that and therefore you are too risky for them. Most Collector car policies won't even look at you until you are 25.


Pretty much everything related to cars sucks, until you're 25. Your insurance premiums are going to suck, because 16-25 year olds are high risk. If you travel, renting a car is going to suck, as under 25 is high risk.

If you want to make it better, go get 16-25 year old kids to stop wrapping Civics around light poles.
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racingfortheson
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Report this Post11-17-2014 01:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for racingforthesonSend a Private Message to racingforthesonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also, as I've said here before, be careful dealing with a normal agent. I am in no way saying they are knownly misleading anyone. A lot of the times they just don't know. My wife sold insurance for years and my Mother-in-law still does. Many agents don't deal with classic or collector cars, so they don't really understand all the ins and outs of it. Make sure you get everything in writing. That way they are forced to cover you, or the selling agent is responsable. Most people don't know that a dirtbike or ATV isn't covered under a home owners insurance. Even if it was in the garage when a house burns down. A lot of agents don't realize it ether. Anyways, just get it all in writing and read the fine print. It is a good thing when an agent says, "I don't know, let me check on that." It means they give a crap and aren't just trying to make a sale.
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Report this Post11-17-2014 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
State farm has my rebodied 84 insured for a $10,000 agreed value. The rebody makes it a replica. Also my rates will decrease 2/3 once I have it painted.
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Report this Post11-17-2014 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for craigtboneClick Here to Email craigtboneSend a Private Message to craigtboneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you all for the great input.

Looks like I have several options:

1. insure the car with normal insurance, accept the book value.

2. insure with collectors insurance, agreed on value, unlimited mileage, not drive it to work.

3. insure with collectors insurance, agreed on value, unlimited mileage, DRIVE it to work and take my chances.

I will continue researching but these seem to be the options at this point.

Any further input / insights are most appreciated.

Craig T.
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yellowstone
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Report this Post11-17-2014 11:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wanted to insure my Fiero with Hagerty and it's most definitely not a daily driver and parked under a cover 95% of the time but they wouldn't insure it because I live in a condo and don't have a garage...
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Report this Post11-21-2014 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by craigtbone:

Thank you all for the great input.

Looks like I have several options:

1. insure the car with normal insurance, accept the book value.

2. insure with collectors insurance, agreed on value, unlimited mileage, not drive it to work.

3. insure with collectors insurance, agreed on value, unlimited mileage, DRIVE it to work and take my chances.

I will continue researching but these seem to be the options at this point.

Any further input / insights are most appreciated.

Craig T.


I agree with your options...

but again read my caution about item 3... it's not the damage to your car you are worried about... if they fail to cover you for liability and you are left holding the claim on somebody's $50,000 Mercedes, or worse, you will be a in a world of hurt.
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Report this Post11-22-2014 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have my cars insured with The Hartford. They allowed me to insure one of them as Stated Value, and I got lucky. I got rear ended a few months later, and when they came to "appraise" my vehicle, it appraised for more than I had stated, so I got the money necessary to fix it. You can go with "stated Value", but if you do so get an appraisal done on it up front ( suggestion from Hartford after the fact). Without it, you are at their mercy depending on their appraisal. You can have it insured for $20K stated value, but if they think it appraises at $4K, that's all you will get.

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Report this Post11-23-2014 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skitimeClick Here to Email skitimeSend a Private Message to skitimeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After I had done so much work on my GT, I knew I need to insure it for more. I contacted my local agent with the request. He told me to get it appraised by someone independent of me. I received an appraisal for $20,000. They then wrote me an agreed value policy and my rate when down. LOL Looked in my records and I was paying $189 for six months.

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Report this Post11-24-2014 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had State Farm collector coverages on all mine...but I had daily drivers insured too. All the companies like Grundy and Haggarty have too many hoops to jump thru to get coverage. I dont think your going to find any that will give you collector coverage and its your only car. As for collision coverage, the way I do it is figure out if that car is disposable. Can I get along without it if its wrecked. I have a 12 year old Caravan now...low miles in super condition and I carry full coverage on it. The extra is only something like $60 @ 6 months...well worth it to me. Id much rather the insurance company give me $3-4000 totaled than $0.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 11-24-2014).]

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Report this Post11-25-2014 12:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darbysan:

I have my cars insured with The Hartford. They allowed me to insure one of them as Stated Value, and I got lucky. I got rear ended a few months later, and when they came to "appraise" my vehicle, it appraised for more than I had stated, so I got the money necessary to fix it. You can go with "stated Value", but if you do so get an appraisal done on it up front ( suggestion from Hartford after the fact). Without it, you are at their mercy depending on their appraisal. You can have it insured for $20K stated value, but if they think it appraises at $4K, that's all you will get.



I know "stated value" sounds like "agreed value" but they mean almost the opposite. Stated value means actual cash value but with a limit at the value that you state or whichever is less. Since you had an appraisal it worked out for you. Otherwise they would have looked at ACV on a Fiero which is zilch and ignored your stated value. Without an appraisal stated value add nothing to an insurance policy.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-25-2014).]

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Report this Post11-25-2014 07:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for racingforthesonSend a Private Message to racingforthesonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just wondering what it cost to get the appraisal done and how did you find the appraiser?

 
quote
Originally posted by skitime:

After I had done so much work on my GT, I knew I need to insure it for more. I contacted my local agent with the request. He told me to get it appraised by someone independent of me. I received an appraisal for $20,000. They then wrote me an agreed value policy and my rate when down. LOL Looked in my records and I was paying $189 for six months.



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Report this Post11-25-2014 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Contact your bank. They will usually have access to someone who will appraise a car. Last I heard, they charged something like $150 for a signed, certified appraisal.
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Fierochic88
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Report this Post12-01-2014 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierochic88Click Here to Email Fierochic88Send a Private Message to Fierochic88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by racingfortheson:

Just wondering what it cost to get the appraisal done and how did you find the appraiser?



I'm not sure if Dave (skitime) had his appraisal done where I did, but at the time I had my 85GT appraised, it was done at a local collector car (Corvette) dealership. If you have any kind of unique car dealership in your area, they will often do an appraisal for $75-$100.

Craig - when I lived in PA, my show car was insured by State Farm for stated value as was my 88GT which was driven more freuqently. My dad has insured his Fieros in the past through Liberty Mutual.

~ Jen
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