I have been pondering this for many years now. I have had a few ideas and I was looking to start on one idea but had a new idea today. One problem is the brush falls off the arm. Or maybe the brush(es) wears out and the armature is now contacting the steel arm the brush is soldered/brazed to.
My newest idea: Have new brushes made that are as long as that arm they attach to before the arm makes that 180 degree bend. Plus taller so they cover the arm area 100%. I would have the circular indent at one end. The existing brushes are very small. Trying to use that conductive electronic glue to glue them back on the arm is probably marginal because of the small surface area. Making the brushes that much larger increases the glue surface by maybe 2 1/2 times.
This would be very easy for me to have made.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I upgraded my '86 chassis to a generation II system a few years ago, so I wouldn't be able to field test. But it sounds like a great idea. I probably wouldn't have bothered with the upgrade if I didn't keep having a problem with one bad motor. I figured if I was going to replace one motor I'd do the whole enchilada. Good idea, though.
I did mine a few years ago and don't remember the details. Uhlanstan had recommended brushes available at ACE Hardware. These are much larger than the original brushes. I bought them and had to trim them with a dremel to create the curved surface. Sorry I don't remember more details or have pics but my headlight has been working well ever since!
You must be reading my mind as I had the same idea. I just got these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/131014428737?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ) Saturday and haven't had time to work on it yet. I would glue the brushes long ways on the arms and solder the lead back up at the original solder point. Make a jig to hold the brush assembly in the correct position to mill a arc into the brush side to match the armature.
I will be out of town for a week but will work on it when I get back.
I think the brush material is different than regular carbon brushes. I'll be sending some samples to a electric motor brush manufacturer and they will let me know what these brushes are made of and how they think they are attached to the arms.
Should be easy to get some made. But it will take a few several months as always.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I think the brush material is different than regular carbon brushes. I'll be sending some samples to a electric motor brush manufacturer and they will let me know what these brushes are made of and how they think they are attached to the arms.
Should be easy to get some made. But it will take a few several months as always.
I've made a little progress and some good news (hopefully). In getting some samples together to send out I found something very interesting today. I have 4 NOS brush/contacts I have been saving for several years on hand. I was looking at them today and happened to notice one was different:
It has flat surface brushes. My other 3 have a curved surface brush. So in my opinion I can have these made with a flat surface. This makes this easier for me to have them made and those who install them. No need to worry about aligning a depression in the brush with the armature when gluing them on to the arms. Oh joy.
So I should have no problem getting these made. Still will take some time yet but I should have something by late winter or so. They are probably cast so a die or mold will need to be made. I'll find that out in the coming weeks.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
About a year ago I was working with a small appliance and tool repair company down here and he was able to find a machine to do the job, but it was very expensive. I remember being told that the brush material was copper-clad so that it could be soldered to the spring arms. The process was something like spot-welding. The brush was placed in position and a flash-charge was applied to the back of the spring arm which had solder pre-applied to the surface.
Making some progress. My opinion at this time is to just make a larger replacement brush that completely fills the face of the brass arm area where the brash attaches 100%. That gives a much larger glue surface. That conductive glue you would use would now have a much larger gluing surface to make sure they stay on the brass arm and have a good conductive property from the brush to the brass arm. They would have a flat face so there is no alignment issues. The OEM carbon brush is about .135" x .245". My carbon brush would be about .190" x .420". More than twice the size of the OEM brush.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Originally posted by Rodney: It has flat surface brushes. My other 3 have a curved surface brush. So in my opinion I can have these made with a flat surface. This makes this easier for me to have them made and those who install them. No need to worry about aligning a depression in the brush with the armature when gluing them on to the arms.
Brushes on most motor, ever alternator in your car, has them flat to start. The motor will quickly wears the the flat bush to meet exact curve of contact area.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Stan Miller made an excellent point. When the brush assembly is installed the brass arms deflect and bend some. So over time the glue may let loose towards the U bend area. The glue may start breaking it's bond near the U bend side and in time cause the brush to maybe fall off completely. So I'm going to make them narrower. Around .330". Still almost double the glue area of the OEM brush. But maybe leaves some room for the arm to bend in that area. Just testing some here - the majority of the bending is not on that last section of the brass arm. It seems to happen in the U section and in the long part going to the plastic piece it originates from.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Making some progress. One question they ask is how much current does it handle. My reply is they can somewhat determine that by looking at the gauge of the wires used in the pigtail. The current draw would be less than the wire will handle. Anyone have any opinions on the maximum current draw thru them?
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Making some progress. One question they ask is how much current does it handle. My reply is they can somewhat determine that by looking at the gauge of the wires used in the pigtail. The current draw would be less than the wire will handle. Anyone have any opinions on the maximum current draw thru them?
my car is under snow, but the draw will be no more than the fuse in the system..
I have made more progress. I have found a company that can make them. Tooling cost is high.
But I might have them in hand in maybe 3 months or so. Someone needs to make these. 82-86 Firebirds also use them. Maybe I can sell some to those guys also.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Will the company both make the complete unit and also just install brushes on an existing switch set? I have a box full of limiter switches with just one brush missing, otherwise they are good. It would be great to be able to get the brushes replaced, especially for us cheap-o Fiero owners.
It will be the brush only. You glue it to the arm on the brush/contact assembly.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Old brushes will come off easily with a sharp utility knife. Use that electrical glue one finds on eBay to glue the new brushes back on. I'll probably get that glue so I can include it with orders. I have OK'd them to make the die and make these brushes. I may never sell enough to make up the costs but this is a much needed part in my opinion.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Tried different brushes. Carbon brushes wear out in a moment. You have to have copper-carbon brushes as in the original motors. As for the current draw it depends but mostly 8-9 amps when running and about 13-15 when shorted at least on my motors BUT that was with the car not running so battery voltage around 12.5V. With the car running it should be a little less current. I guess you could say these motors are around 120W.
I also didn't care about conducting glue, just soldered the braided wire to the arms.
[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 03-16-2015).]
They are on their way and should be here yet this week. If not then early next week.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I've been preparing for this and doing some searching for the conductive glue to bond the brushes. Nothing I can find has any amount of lateral sheer strength. Most are designed to glue stationary objects that have no force applied. Do you have a source or recommend any particular conductive glue that can withstand the side forces exerted on the brushes?
Stan Miller has been using the glue I listed above and has had excellent luck. My brushes have about 100% more glue surface. Time will tell what works. There is very little sheer against these.
I'll be sending some out N/C to a few to try and we will see what happens.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575