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New brushes for 84-86 headlight motors idea by Rodney
Started on: 11-08-2014 06:27 PM
Replies: 26 (1183 views)
Last post by: zzzhuh on 11-21-2015 06:46 PM
Rodney
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Report this Post11-08-2014 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have been pondering this for many years now. I have had a few ideas and I was looking to start on one idea but had a new idea today. One problem is the brush falls off the arm. Or maybe the brush(es) wears out and the armature is now contacting the steel arm the brush is soldered/brazed to.

My newest idea: Have new brushes made that are as long as that arm they attach to before the arm makes that 180 degree bend. Plus taller so they cover the arm area 100%. I would have the circular indent at one end. The existing brushes are very small. Trying to use that conductive electronic glue to glue them back on the arm is probably marginal because of the small surface area. Making the brushes that much larger increases the glue surface by maybe 2 1/2 times.

This would be very easy for me to have made.

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Report this Post11-08-2014 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1986 Fiero GTClick Here to Email 1986 Fiero GTSend a Private Message to 1986 Fiero GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I upgraded my '86 chassis to a generation II system a few years ago, so I wouldn't be able to field test. But it sounds like a great idea. I probably wouldn't have bothered with the upgrade if I didn't keep having a problem with one bad motor. I figured if I was going to replace one motor I'd do the whole enchilada. Good idea, though.
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Report this Post11-09-2014 01:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think that if you come up with a reliable fix, you will make a big impact to the Fiero community (not that you haven't already).
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Francis T
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Report this Post11-09-2014 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rod, check your PMs
Sorry check your email


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[This message has been edited by Francis T (edited 11-09-2014).]

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Terrible Tom
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Report this Post11-09-2014 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Terrible TomClick Here to Email Terrible TomSend a Private Message to Terrible TomEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did mine a few years ago and don't remember the details. Uhlanstan had recommended brushes available at ACE Hardware. These are much larger than the original brushes. I bought them and had to trim them with a dremel to create the curved surface. Sorry I don't remember more details or have pics but my headlight has been working well ever since!

Tom
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rdean
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Report this Post11-10-2014 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rdeanClick Here to Email rdeanSend a Private Message to rdeanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You must be reading my mind as I had the same idea. I just got these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/131014428737?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ) Saturday and haven't had time to work on it yet.
I would glue the brushes long ways on the arms and solder the lead back up at the original solder point. Make a jig to hold the brush assembly in the correct position to mill a arc into the brush side to match the armature.

I will be out of town for a week but will work on it when I get back.

Anyway the price is right!

Ray
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Report this Post11-10-2014 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rdeanClick Here to Email rdeanSend a Private Message to rdeanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post






Made these up tonight will see how they work tomorrow. Going to try them with out cutting an arc in them.

Ray

[This message has been edited by rdean (edited 11-10-2014).]

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Rodney
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Report this Post11-10-2014 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is a quick mock up of my idea:



I think the brush material is different than regular carbon brushes. I'll be sending some samples to a electric motor brush manufacturer and they will let me know what these brushes are made of and how they think they are attached to the arms.

Should be easy to get some made. But it will take a few several months as always.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

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Report this Post11-11-2014 08:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SteelSend a Private Message to SteelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

Here is a quick mock up of my idea:



I think the brush material is different than regular carbon brushes. I'll be sending some samples to a electric motor brush manufacturer and they will let me know what these brushes are made of and how they think they are attached to the arms.

Should be easy to get some made. But it will take a few several months as always.


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Rodney
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Report this Post12-15-2014 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've made a little progress and some good news (hopefully). In getting some samples together to send out I found something very interesting today. I have 4 NOS brush/contacts I have been saving for several years on hand. I was looking at them today and happened to notice one was different:



It has flat surface brushes. My other 3 have a curved surface brush. So in my opinion I can have these made with a flat surface. This makes this easier for me to have them made and those who install them. No need to worry about aligning a depression in the brush with the armature when gluing them on to the arms. Oh joy.

So I should have no problem getting these made. Still will take some time yet but I should have something by late winter or so. They are probably cast so a die or mold will need to be made. I'll find that out in the coming weeks.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
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Report this Post12-15-2014 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
About a year ago I was working with a small appliance and tool repair company down here and he was able to find a machine to do the job, but it was very expensive. I remember being told that the brush material was copper-clad so that it could be soldered to the spring arms. The process was something like spot-welding. The brush was placed in position and a flash-charge was applied to the back of the spring arm which had solder pre-applied to the surface.
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Rodney
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Report this Post12-27-2014 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Making some progress. My opinion at this time is to just make a larger replacement brush that completely fills the face of the brass arm area where the brash attaches 100%. That gives a much larger glue surface. That conductive glue you would use would now have a much larger gluing surface to make sure they stay on the brass arm and have a good conductive property from the brush to the brass arm. They would have a flat face so there is no alignment issues. The OEM carbon brush is about .135" x .245". My carbon brush would be about .190" x .420". More than twice the size of the OEM brush.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
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Report this Post12-27-2014 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
It has flat surface brushes. My other 3 have a curved surface brush. So in my opinion I can have these made with a flat surface. This makes this easier for me to have them made and those who install them. No need to worry about aligning a depression in the brush with the armature when gluing them on to the arms.

Brushes on most motor, ever alternator in your car, has them flat to start. The motor will quickly wears the the flat bush to meet exact curve of contact area.

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Rodney
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Report this Post12-27-2014 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Stan Miller made an excellent point. When the brush assembly is installed the brass arms deflect and bend some. So over time the glue may let loose towards the U bend area. The glue may start breaking it's bond near the U bend side and in time cause the brush to maybe fall off completely. So I'm going to make them narrower. Around .330". Still almost double the glue area of the OEM brush. But maybe leaves some room for the arm to bend in that area. Just testing some here - the majority of the bending is not on that last section of the brass arm. It seems to happen in the U section and in the long part going to the plastic piece it originates from.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
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Rodney
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Report this Post01-18-2015 10:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Making some progress. One question they ask is how much current does it handle. My reply is they can somewhat determine that by looking at the gauge of the wires used in the pigtail. The current draw would be less than the wire will handle. Anyone have any opinions on the maximum current draw thru them?

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
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Report this Post01-31-2015 04:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

Making some progress. One question they ask is how much current does it handle. My reply is they can somewhat determine that by looking at the gauge of the wires used in the pigtail. The current draw would be less than the wire will handle. Anyone have any opinions on the maximum current draw thru them?



my car is under snow, but the draw will be no more than the fuse in the system..
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Rodney
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Report this Post02-02-2015 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have made more progress. I have found a company that can make them. Tooling cost is high.

But I might have them in hand in maybe 3 months or so. Someone needs to make these. 82-86 Firebirds also use them. Maybe I can sell some to those guys also.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
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Report this Post02-02-2015 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Will the company both make the complete unit and also just install brushes on an existing switch set? I have a box full of limiter switches with just one brush missing, otherwise they are good. It would be great to be able to get the brushes replaced, especially for us cheap-o Fiero owners.
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Rodney
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Report this Post02-02-2015 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It will be the brush only. You glue it to the arm on the brush/contact assembly.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
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Report this Post02-02-2015 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierohohoClick Here to Email fierohohoSend a Private Message to fierohohoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How are the old brushes removed from the arms?
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Rodney
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Report this Post03-16-2015 08:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Old brushes will come off easily with a sharp utility knife. Use that electrical glue one finds on eBay to glue the new brushes back on. I'll probably get that glue so I can include it with orders. I have OK'd them to make the die and make these brushes. I may never sell enough to make up the costs but this is a much needed part in my opinion.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
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Report this Post03-16-2015 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tried different brushes. Carbon brushes wear out in a moment. You have to have copper-carbon brushes as in the original motors. As for the current draw it depends but mostly 8-9 amps when running and about 13-15 when shorted at least on my motors BUT that was with the car not running so battery voltage around 12.5V. With the car running it should be a little less current. I guess you could say these motors are around 120W.

I also didn't care about conducting glue, just soldered the braided wire to the arms.

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 03-16-2015).]

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Rodney
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Report this Post05-07-2015 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They are on their way and should be here yet this week. If not then early next week.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post05-07-2015 12:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've been preparing for this and doing some searching for the conductive glue to bond the brushes. Nothing I can find has any amount of lateral sheer strength. Most are designed to glue stationary objects that have no force applied. Do you have a source or recommend any particular conductive glue that can withstand the side forces exerted on the brushes?
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Rodney
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Report this Post05-08-2015 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Stan Miller has been using the glue I listed above and has had excellent luck. My brushes have about 100% more glue surface. Time will tell what works. There is very little sheer against these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ele...&hash=item35e9a4d27f

Here is another possibility:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sil...&hash=item2585575268

I like this one but you mix it in the package so it is a one time shot:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Con...&hash=item25a168442a

Do a search on ebay. There are some more.

I'll be sending some out N/C to a few to try and we will see what happens.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Rodney
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Report this Post05-09-2015 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They came in yesterday so I have plenty on hand. I'm looking to send some out N/C to a few who want to try them.

I made a web page for them:

http://rodneydickman.com/ca...h=47&products_id=360

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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zzzhuh
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Report this Post11-21-2015 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You have a P.M.
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