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Thoughts on N* out of 97 sls by Vesquar
Started on: 10-29-2014 12:40 PM
Replies: 38 (463 views)
Last post by: jwct7 on 11-03-2014 10:29 PM
Vesquar
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Report this Post10-29-2014 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok so I have thrown around the issue of what motor I want. And since I have a cadi laying around I figured I would asks y'all's thoughts on the n*. Is it a good mod or is it too much of a hassle. Just anything will help.

Thanks ~Austin
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Report this Post10-29-2014 01:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's a nice engine, but it's not a trivial swap by any means, and if you want to mod it for more power later on, your options are more limited than with other engines, as there is very little in the way of aftermarket parts.
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Vesquar
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Report this Post10-29-2014 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well what if I just want roller rockers and lifters, bigger cam. Forged pistons and a turbo
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Report this Post10-29-2014 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Vesquar:

Well what if I just want roller rockers and lifters, bigger cam. Forged pistons and a turbo


The Northstar is a DOHC engine. Aftermarket cams are not easy to come by, and you have to replace 4 of them, not one. You can turbo it, and probably run 10 PSI on stock pistons without any problem. Not sure how easy it is to get forged pistons for it either.
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Vesquar
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Report this Post10-29-2014 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I completely forgot the dohc part.. And I knew it could be turbos stock but I would still like better pistons and cams if I can find em. But on the engine as a whole do you know it's capabilities durability wise
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Report this Post10-29-2014 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Vesquar:

I completely forgot the dohc part.. And I knew it could be turbos stock but I would still like better pistons and cams if I can find em. But on the engine as a whole do you know it's capabilities durability wise


ARP head studs, don't overdo things, and it should be plenty reliable. There are plenty of Fieros running around with Northstars swapped in. Search for the build threads for all the info you could ever want. There are a couple of great threads by Will and Bloozberry, on their builds, in the Construction Zone area.
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Vesquar
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Report this Post10-29-2014 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alright, do I need the cadi wiring harness ?? Because the one I got is shot
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Report this Post10-29-2014 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im a huge Cadillac Enthusiast and currently own a 91 Seville with the 4.9L OHV V8.

The Northstar is a faulty engine that I would never try to work on. The head gaskets blow right around 100,000 miles and also has issues with the threaded head bolts.

Look on Craigslist for "Cadillac Seville" or "Eldorado" and your bound to see at least 10 people selling theirs because of the Northstar.

With that being said:

That engine is extremely powerful and also gets relatively good gas mileage for being a V8. Plus the noise it makes is beautiful. I do think the 98-2004 engines were improved but still had issues. Honestly, I would try to find a 3800SC engine. The after market support for the Northstar isn't that great.

------------------
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Vesquar
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Report this Post10-29-2014 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So what you're saying is I should put it in till I get bored and then put in a 3800 when I come across one. You have to consider that I just have the car laying around and have no use for it. The interior is already a donor for my 79 trans am. So if I don't use the engine it will just continue to sit.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post10-29-2014 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And there are a lot of them running around with no issues at 300,000 miles......
Maintenance is the key to any machine.
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Report this Post10-29-2014 07:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My vote is go for it...

------------------


87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft)
(series II swap in progress)
85GT Northstar/ 4t80e
86GT 3800 n/a---sold
Northstar Rebuild

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Report this Post10-29-2014 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

Im a huge Cadillac Enthusiast and currently own a 91 Seville with the 4.9L OHV V8.

The Northstar is a faulty engine that I would never try to work on. The head gaskets blow right around 100,000 miles and also has issues with the threaded head bolts.

Look on Craigslist for "Cadillac Seville" or "Eldorado" and your bound to see at least 10 people selling theirs because of the Northstar.

With that being said:

That engine is extremely powerful and also gets relatively good gas mileage for being a V8. Plus the noise it makes is beautiful. I do think the 98-2004 engines were improved but still had issues. Honestly, I would try to find a 3800SC engine. The after market support for the Northstar isn't that great.



Oh stop. There was a fix made by GM for the faulty head bolts issue that caused the head gasket problem. Just install the ARP studs if you're boosting, and be done with it. And that is literally the only real issue. If you're wanting to go N* and planning to throw forged pistons in it anyway, then just do the head bolts right and you won't have the problem.
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Report this Post10-29-2014 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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quote
Originally posted by Vesquar:

Alright, do I need the cadi wiring harness ?? Because the one I got is shot


Yes, you need the harness. Or at least the wiring diagram, and enough wire and skills to make a new one.

If you're looking for a simple swap though, then you should probably stay away from the N*. It is definitely not a simple swap.
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Report this Post10-29-2014 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I was looking for kinda simple, but almost free sounds more appealing unless someone wants to sell a running Grand Prix or similar to me for 300$
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Report this Post10-29-2014 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you have a complete car for donor you have pretty much everything you need for the swap
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Vesquar
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Report this Post10-29-2014 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well almost complete, I'm not sure what kinda shape the wireing harness is in,
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zzzhuh
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Report this Post10-29-2014 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Oh stop. There was a fix made by GM for the faulty head bolts issue that caused the head gasket problem. Just install the ARP studs if you're boosting, and be done with it. And that is literally the only real issue. If you're wanting to go N* and planning to throw forged pistons in it anyway, then just do the head bolts right and you won't have the problem.


You are right, GM charged $3,000 for this to be done. You could obviously do it for less but it's more work that the O.P. might not want to deal with.
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Report this Post10-29-2014 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

And there are a lot of them running around with no issues at 300,000 miles......
Maintenance is the key to any machine.


I agree, but if the internals of the engine are bad, then maintaining them properly isn't going to help. Here is a video of a list of things to watch out for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqgAb3thNfM starts at 2:05

[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 10-29-2014).]

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Report this Post10-29-2014 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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quote
Originally posted by Vesquar:

So what you're saying is I should put it in till I get bored and then put in a 3800 when I come across one. You have to consider that I just have the car laying around and have no use for it. The interior is already a donor for my 79 trans am. So if I don't use the engine it will just continue to sit.


I'd recommend you hold of and just wait till you find a 3.8SC. I would recommend you part the car out, you'll have more money in your pocket at the end of the day. I would love to see a pic of this trans am tho.
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Vesquar
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Report this Post10-29-2014 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Trans am is in rough shape, needs basically everything. Got a mild 350 I built a while back to put in it. Going with cadi interior, and god knows what else. I will see about getting a pic of the junk. As for the cadi motor, since I want atleast 350 hp it's a no go ?? :P problem is atm I ain't got room for a donor car since I got the fiero the cadi and the trans am just sittin. No one want to buy parts off the cadi and I gotta remove it before grabbing a 3.8 donor car. So I am in a bit of a pickle.
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Report this Post10-30-2014 08:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.chrfab.com/

Above link is where you get your N* performance upgrades from. Heads, Cams, upgraded internals they have it all. Being the owner of a N* Fiero I will say this, the sound is truly exotic compared to any other install and it does make good power and get decent (28mpg hwy) fuel economy. The only catch with this is you pay exotic prices for everything with this engine compared to every other common engine swap into a Fiero. If you are doing it, replace all the seals, pumps, alternator, and do the head stud upgrade before you do the install. As for power adders, the best power adder for a N* is Nitrous. It already has more power than you can possibly use on the street in the US stock. So the only time your really going to want more is at the Strip and a 75 shot is lethal in N*. My friend in VA has a Seville and for $#!+s and giggles put a 75 shot on it and took it to the track. He was laughing hard when he took down a mustang in a Seville.
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Report this Post10-30-2014 08:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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Oh yeah, one more thing. If you keep the 4T80 your Fiero will pick up roughly an additional 150 pounds over a S/C 3800 swap. If you plan on running it on a twisty track that will affect performance. The extra weight is noticeable when you have stock Fiero brakes as well. You will need to upgrade your brakes if go N*.
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Vesquar
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Report this Post10-30-2014 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you Jedi, knowing the prices will help me decide
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Report this Post10-30-2014 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:
You are right, GM charged $3,000 for this to be done. You could obviously do it for less but it's more work that the O.P. might not want to deal with.


I think if one wants to install forged pistons for boost, then timeserting the deck and installing ARP head studs is probably not more work than one wants to deal with. The heads are already off at that point, and you should be installing new gaskets and bolts anyway. Might as well do it right.
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Report this Post10-30-2014 10:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jediperk:

http://www.chrfab.com/

Above link is where you get your N* performance upgrades from. Heads, Cams, upgraded internals they have it all. Being the owner of a N* Fiero I will say this, the sound is truly exotic compared to any other install and it does make good power and get decent (28mpg hwy) fuel economy. The only catch with this is you pay exotic prices for everything with this engine compared to every other common engine swap into a Fiero. If you are doing it, replace all the seals, pumps, alternator, and do the head stud upgrade before you do the install. As for power adders, the best power adder for a N* is Nitrous. It already has more power than you can possibly use on the street in the US stock. So the only time your really going to want more is at the Strip and a 75 shot is lethal in N*. My friend in VA has a Seville and for $#!+s and giggles put a 75 shot on it and took it to the track. He was laughing hard when he took down a mustang in a Seville.


Yeah, the few performance N* parts you will be able to find will be $$$$. As for taking out Mustangs, meh. It's funny when Mustang owners try to stoplight race my Avalanche. That 4.027 first gear in the 6l80e with the torque curve on the 5.3 is not too bad, even with the 3.42 rear gear.
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Report this Post10-30-2014 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnyrottinClick Here to Email johnyrottinSend a Private Message to johnyrottinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My thoughts? Sell the N-Star and all that is with it, buy a 3800SC and get the bits and bobs you need, install, enjoy, repeat as necessary.
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Report this Post10-30-2014 02:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
See I like that idea but no one wants to buy a north star
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Report this Post10-30-2014 03:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Yeah, the few performance N* parts you will be able to find will be $$$$. As for taking out Mustangs, meh. It's funny when Mustang owners try to stoplight race my Avalanche. That 4.027 first gear in the 6l80e with the torque curve on the 5.3 is not too bad, even with the 3.42 rear gear.


Everything with a N* fiero is big $$$$. That's why I try and caution folks before they make the decision. As for Mustangs, it's always funner taking them out in something they don't see coming. I think he said he went up against one of the newer stock S197's. The Mustang ran something like a 14.1 and he ran a 13.9. You know the guy took all kinds of flack for being taken out by a Seville.
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Report this Post10-30-2014 03:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have no interest in mustang domination, I have that covered I my dd. I am more interested in the zr1's
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Report this Post10-30-2014 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Vesquar:

I have no interest in mustang domination, I have that covered I my dd. I am more interested in the zr1's


So you think you're going to make 700+ HP with a N*? Good luck.
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Report this Post10-30-2014 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh no never intended on it honestly I wouldn't trust the n* with 500 hp. I was referring to final product, the north star honestly was just a I between I'm a little bored concept
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Report this Post10-30-2014 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And if I recall correctly it's somewhere in the range of 640 bhp and 3500 lbs ??
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Report this Post10-30-2014 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Vesquar:

And if I recall correctly it's somewhere in the range of 640 bhp and 3500 lbs ??


Stock is 640 bhp. But it's also a very different car than a Fiero. It's very easy for a ZR1 to make over 1000 HP on stock components.
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Report this Post11-01-2014 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Around here everybody is stock. No I'm sorry every on has there awesome "10 hp cold air intakes " sucking in hot air from the engine
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Report this Post11-01-2014 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Vesquar:

Around here everybody is stock. No I'm sorry every on has there awesome "10 hp cold air intakes " sucking in hot air from the engine


Are you talking about Corvettes or Civics? There isn't even enough room in a Vette engine bay to stick a cone filter.
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Vesquar
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Report this Post11-01-2014 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh I was referring to all cars in my area.
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Report this Post11-02-2014 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom2M4Click Here to Email Custom2M4Send a Private Message to Custom2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Being someone that has done what you are talking about with a northstar, I would recommend you don't do it. Money should be irrelevant when your building this motor, especially single or twin turbo. There are a lot more aspects of the swap Then just throwing it in to make power. The most expensive part is going to be he tuning, to make sure it runs right.

Northstar = free
Forged pistons = 850$
Treatments = 250$
Rebuild with arp fasteners and time serts = 3,750$
Software, standalone and boost controllers = 2,500$
Turbo , wastegate, bov = 1,500$
Custom piping hot and cold side = 2,000$
Custom grind cams = 1,000$

Then installs, tuning, transmissions, axles...

It's a good dream, but IMO you should keep it a dream and stick with more realistic ventures. The 3800 is just as powerful of a power plant.

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Report this Post11-03-2014 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VesquarClick Here to Email VesquarSend a Private Message to VesquarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you custom. I think I'll scrap the north star and stick with a 3800 :P
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Report this Post11-03-2014 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jwct7Click Here to Email jwct7Send a Private Message to jwct7Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Go for it!!!!! I have a 97 in my Finale, no mufflers, just cats and tips.. beautiful sound when you jump on it. I have done only 24K in 10 years and it has never let me down. I'm not saying it was an easy swap but Kevin at D1S did a perfect job.
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