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Drew-py's 3800 II S/C adventure by Drew-py
Started on: 10-06-2014 11:06 PM
Replies: 13 (518 views)
Last post by: Drew-py on 10-18-2014 10:40 PM
Drew-py
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Report this Post10-06-2014 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Drew-pySend a Private Message to Drew-pyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since I cant start a thread in "The Construction Zone" then I guess I must start it here and hope to get there.

This is the build of my 87 wingless GT that is now complete. I was not a member of this site at the time. It was a good learning lesson for me as I did not realize there were sites dedicated to these cars or the various engine swaps, so all of my build was done with out reference from a forum that had already done the 3800 swap. My build started in Jacksonville NC and with the help of Chug whom I could not have done this with out his help and house/driveway, he had just finished his 3800 swap. My complete build is well documented in a North Carolina Fiero website and I will be migrating it over to PFF as time goes on and even though I say it is complete we all know it is never done

I was originally going to put a good ole SBC in it till Chug told me to look at the 3800 because it bolted right up and had good power potential . After weighing the pros and cons to each engine I decided to go with the 3800 II S/C. I was a little less lucky than Chug, his went together where mine kept coming apart, 1st time-initial swap, 2nd time-blown head gasket, 3rd time-broken oil pump, 4th time-clutch disk in backwards, opps fatigue and frustrations caused this over-site. 5th time-ohhh yeah a 3 pt cracking cradle mostly due to my motor mount placement partially because of power. So that is the point at which I am picking up this build from. During all these learning lessons I am operating a stock rebiult engine and have yet to do anything to increase the power, but its coming.






This is the 5th time we have installed and removed an engine from the car for multiple reasons and the latest of cradle fatigue. I sent the car to a local specialist shop to create a tubular cradle and after 6 weeks of waiting on the shop that promised a tubular cradle with no completion, or start date, we decided to revamp a new cradle. We have also added a 5th mount for anti-rotation and re-engineered a mount to incorporate a rubber mount and to move the position out further.
I went this route because I wanted to keep the alternator in the factory placement to be easily accessed. Before you ask yes I have had to make a couple of cradle reinforcements as time went on and power output went up, which will be covered later


I shaved a 1/4" off the ALT bracket which was the thickness of the anti rotation plate and easy to do because the bolt standoffs on the backside of the bracket are 1/4" also

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davylong86
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Report this Post10-08-2014 10:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for davylong86Send a Private Message to davylong86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Drew,we will have to hook up sometime.Most of my family live in St Chuck and St pete.Will be out that way Sat. will have the fiero if its not raining.T Shark runs around that territory also.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post10-08-2014 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like the cradle may have been hit by driving over a manhole or rock. Regardless stick with the swap and you will be pleased

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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tshark
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Report this Post10-08-2014 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Drew & I met (was it this past Saturday?). Time flies. I liked the sound of whatever was in the Lambo replica better, but suspect it was $$$ better.

Nice GTP lettering you know where, Drew.

I've been told by some that the LSx V8 is the way to go, but Drew, johnnyrottin, and some others seem to think that the 3800 is better. Perhaps the opinions change in Archie country. (Sorry, Archie, but it sounded good.). I had heard that the 3800 was one of the most difficult swaps, next to the Northstar and big block, and that the 4.9 was the one that bolted right up.

For sure, this 3500 RPMs at highway speed has got to go.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post10-08-2014 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

Drew & I met (was it this past Saturday?). Time flies. I liked the sound of whatever was in the Lambo replica better, but suspect it was $$$ better.

Nice GTP lettering you know where, Drew.

I've been told by some that the LSx V8 is the way to go, but Drew, johnnyrottin, and some others seem to think that the 3800 is better. Perhaps the opinions change in Archie country. (Sorry, Archie, but it sounded good.). I had heard that the 3800 was one of the most difficult swaps, next to the Northstar and big block, and that the 4.9 was the one that bolted right up.

For sure, this 3500 RPMs at highway speed has got to go.


The 3800 is not that difficult of a swap and not at the top of the list expense wise. You usually drop this engine is as a powertrain assembly. While it will bolt up to any of the Fiero transmissions, its better to chose a stronger box. As for performance, this engine has provided 1/4 mile times down into the 10's in a Fiero and into the 8's in a Grand Prix. A lightly modded engine running higher boost can get you into the 12's . The way to go is how YOU decide to go and what is important in your swap, but the 3800 does provide good performance for the buck. If you have considerably more to spend and like the sound of bigger engines, the SBC V8 may be the way to go.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Drew-py
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Report this Post10-11-2014 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Drew-pySend a Private Message to Drew-pyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by davylong86:

Hey Drew,we will have to hook up sometime.Most of my family live in St Chuck and St pete.Will be out that way Sat. will have the fiero if its not raining.T Shark runs around that territory also.


yes most def need to hook up I was busy today and will be Sunday morning but the afternoon looks kin of clear
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Drew-py
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Report this Post10-11-2014 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Drew-pySend a Private Message to Drew-pyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Drew-py

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Member since Apr 2014
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Looks like the cradle may have been hit by driving over a manhole or rock. Regardless stick with the swap and you will be pleased



that is what it looks like but I assure you it was twisting of the engine that caused the damage
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Drew-py
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Report this Post10-12-2014 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Drew-pySend a Private Message to Drew-pyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The wiring harness I built myself. the first one was a mess of a design because having to long of wires creating a knot of wires and tape here and there. Needing to get the car running sooner rather than later.


I took measurements of the engine bay engine placement relation and having a spare upper engine hanging around I started the process of creating a cut to length harness. The tackle box was placed on the other side and was used as the "firewall" to give the correct distance to the ECM


once I had all the upper components wired up I decided the path for the lower portions to the block, starter and tranny. I now have all the engine portion complete with the C203 plug.


The wires that go to the C500 and the power block just under it, I installed plugs that a grabbed off of late model S-series trucks. So now my entire harness unplugs or unbolts off of the car. These plugs come in pairs and set up so I can not cross plug them together.


I relocated my battery and placed the ICM there and the wires to the yellow plugs are then lengthened to fit behind the mounted ICM.


With the harness put together I built a profile board to be able to make more harnesses if needed or asked.

[This message has been edited by Drew-py (edited 10-18-2014).]

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Christine
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Report this Post10-12-2014 02:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ChristineClick Here to Email ChristineSend a Private Message to ChristineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work Drew!
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1MohrFiero
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Report this Post10-12-2014 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1MohrFieroSend a Private Message to 1MohrFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work. Is that a wagon seat by the ChristMas tree?

------------------

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johnyrottin
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Report this Post10-12-2014 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for johnyrottinClick Here to Email johnyrottinSend a Private Message to johnyrottinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Darn Andrew that is a thing of beauty!!!
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Drew-py
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Report this Post10-12-2014 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Drew-pySend a Private Message to Drew-pyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 1MohrFiero:

Nice work. Is that a wagon seat by the ChristMas tree?



yes circa 1890 wagon its 36" across the seat 40" spring to spring. Passed down the family along with other pre-auto era stuffs
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Drew-py
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Report this Post10-12-2014 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Drew-pySend a Private Message to Drew-pyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by johnyrottin:

Darn Andrew that is a thing of beauty!!!


Thank you when I have the time and place I like to do things the way they should be done not a hastily thrown together hosh-posh. I am waiting for the day when I can take the car apart completely with no rush for re-assembly so I can address all the things I want to do to her, brakes and suspension, clean & paint engine bay, sound matting, cruise control, A/C, factory looking air box intake set up and the rest of the little things that matter
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Drew-py
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Report this Post10-18-2014 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Drew-pySend a Private Message to Drew-pyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As a result of how I wanted to eliminate the dog bone.The cradle needed strengthening so this is how I addressed that.
on the forward cross bar of the cradle I filled the channel with square tubing to help prevent any warping like what killed the last cradle


Where the notch is cut for belt clearance I put a fill plate back in only to find out it didn't quite have enough strength


So on a visit to my welder buddy, who did my complete exhaust system, he and I fabricated some plates to put there. These plates are 3/16" thick and are welded all the way around plus 3 plug welds 1/2" dia. I had a plate put on both the front and the backside of the cross bar for best results



And just to make sure the rest of the front cross bar is strong enough for future upgrades I also had this fab'd up, its a single piece 1/4" plate contoured and shaped to fit. It runs from edge corner to the custom forward engine mount full welded with 5 plug weld holes 1/2' dia



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