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Adding electronics to the steering wheel [Revisited] by JohnWPB
Started on: 08-19-2014 08:58 AM
Replies: 21 (765 views)
Last post by: JohnWPB on 02-03-2015 03:01 PM
JohnWPB
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Report this Post08-19-2014 08:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will never understand the need for "Archived Topics" on this forum.... Having to start a new thread, instead replying to an existing one just doesn't make sense to me. [/Rant]

The original thread is here, read that, and them come back here

Ok, now that you have read that thread, here is my problem:

I need to get 2 additional wires down my steering column and to my CarPC. What exactly does the addition of a slip ring do to help that? I have never had a steering column apart before, and It is hard to tell from the pictures in that thread. I was going to try to use the horn wire, as mentioned in the other thread, but with he steering wheel controls that I am using, I need 2 wires.

Any insight, advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

You can read further on what I am doing in THIS POST in my build thread.
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seajai
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Report this Post08-19-2014 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Use a clockspring from a vehicle with additional steering wheel controls. The one I had on my other steering column was from a 95 Cadillac Seville with the heater/radio controls on the wheel. It had 2 wires for the airbag and I believe 4 wires for the other functions. It should fit in place of your other one.

Like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAD...COLUMN-/171124378662
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Report this Post08-19-2014 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Which steering column are you using?

The Fiero column, not having airbags or steering wheel controls, doesn't really have the provisions for such features.
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seajai
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Report this Post08-19-2014 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can swap out the upper steering shaft and lock housing from an airbag car on to the Fiero column, it all fits as long as it's from the 90's and older round column. I did this on mine last year when I did my paddle shift ers. You need to switch to an airbag steering wheel, but he already has that.
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post08-19-2014 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Use a clockspring from a vehicle with additional steering wheel controls. The one I had on my other steering column was from a 95 Cadillac Seville with the heater/radio controls on the wheel. It had 2 wires for the airbag and I believe 4 wires for the other functions. It should fit in place of your other one.
/171124378662[/URL]


Maybe I am just dense or something.... But I still do not get it. I see in the eBay link above it is some sort of sleeve for the column, and a wiring harness. Where does the Clockspring go exactly, and how does that allow me to run wires down the existing Fiero steering column?

Also from the other thread, linked in the first post, he mentions that the lower portion of the steering column, with the U-Joint also needs replaced.... Sorry, as I mentioned, I have NEVER taken apart a steering column before, and guess I need a step-by-step

Also, are there any hard specifics that are needed to get a clockspring that will fit? Will mid-90's and earlier GM ones work. Like THIS ONE that is $15 -vs- the $100 above

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-19-2014).]

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Report this Post08-19-2014 12:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfred8Click Here to visit mrfred8's HomePageSend a Private Message to mrfred8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You should probably just get CJ ticket to West Palm Beach. After seeing what he did with his dash set up he could hook this up no problem.

[This message has been edited by mrfred8 (edited 08-19-2014).]

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infinitewill
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Report this Post08-19-2014 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfred8:

You should probably just get CJ ticket to West Palm Beach after seeing what he did with his dash set up he could hook this up no problem.


=1

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Report this Post08-19-2014 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
True, youd be up and running in a few hours
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dobey
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Report this Post08-19-2014 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
Maybe I am just dense or something.... But I still do not get it. I see in the eBay link above it is some sort of sleeve for the column, and a wiring harness. Where does the Clockspring go exactly, and how does that allow me to run wires down the existing Fiero steering column?

Also from the other thread, linked in the first post, he mentions that the lower portion of the steering column, with the U-Joint also needs replaced.... Sorry, as I mentioned, I have NEVER taken apart a steering column before, and guess I need a step-by-step

Also, are there any hard specifics that are needed to get a clockspring that will fit? Will mid-90's and earlier GM ones work. Like THIS ONE that is $15 -vs- the $100 above


The clock spring sits behind the steering wheel, on the splined portion of the column, and often will have a screw or two mounting it to the column's switch assemblies. You can't just take any clock spring and throw it on any column. They have different designs and wiring.

That $15 S-10 clock spring is ONLY for the airbag. It does not have the wiring for the steering wheel controls. It only has the two wires for the airbag. It's lowere demand, and more common, so it's cheaper. The Cadillac one is expensive because it's for steering wheel controls and airbag, less common, and from a Cadillac, so it's more expensive. But even $100 can be considered cheap. New ones can be $300+.

If you're using the 4th gen F-body steering wheel, your best bet is to find a Firebird column that includes the clock spring, switches, and everything, and just swap the column in. Perhaps it's time for you to get more mechanically familiar with the columns.
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Report this Post08-19-2014 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is a pic of the Seville clockspring, upper shaft, and lock housing:



This picture shows the Fiero upper steering shaft (left) next to the Seville shaft (right). You can see the Seville shaft is longer to accommodate the clock spring. The lock housing is also taller to accommodate the clockspring which is why it must be replaced as well.



This is a pic of the Fiero column with the Seville steering shaft, lock housing, and clockspring installed. I removed the ign lock cylinder from the lock housing so it doesn't show in the pic, but it gives you an Idea of what it looks like:



You need only 4 parts to do this conversion; 1) The clockspring with the extra wires for radio/climate controls. 2) The upper steering shaft from an airbag column. 3) The lock housing from an airbag column. 4) An airbag steering wheel. Seeing as how you already have #4, all you need is the previous 3. As to the "how-to" part, if you can find the old Jazzman column thread, you could see how to do it. Or you could fly me to Florida , I haven't been there since 1986. Option 2 would be to send me your column with the steering wheel removed, I'll source the parts, convert it, and send it back to you. I can buy a complete column from the pick-n-pull for $35 bucks which gets you all the parts you need. The conversion would take less than an hour, so you would just owe me the $35.

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 08-19-2014).]

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JohnWPB
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Report this Post08-20-2014 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
That $15 S-10 clock spring is ONLY for the airbag. It does not have the wiring for the steering wheel controls. It only has the two wires for the airbag.

That is exactly what I need, just 2 wires for the controls. As I mentioned in the post above, the Green & Yellow wires in the Firebird steering wheel that I have carry all the information that I need. I certainly do not need the 2 wires for an actual airbag Also the fact that the 2 wires in the S-10 clockspring are for an air bag, I would think they are well isolated from any interference. I can use the existing green wire already in the Fiero column for the horn.

Therefore a total of 3 wires are need:
- 2 for r the steering wheel buttons
- 1 for the horn.

 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
Perhaps it's time for you to get more mechanically familiar with the columns.

I could not agree more, and that is exactly why I started this thread.


 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:
This is a pic of the Fiero column with the Seville steering shaft, lock housing, and clockspring installed. I removed the ign lock cylinder from the lock housing so it doesn't show in the pic, but it gives you an Idea of what it looks like:


I see now that the clockspring goes pretty much right behind the steering wheel. I also see in the picture above where 2 sets of wires come out the "top" of the clock spring.... What I just still do not understand, is where the other end of the wires are or how they go through the steering column and do not get twisted with the turning of the steering wheel.

I much appreciate the offer, and sure wish that I knew all of this a couple weeks ago, and could have had you help me a bit while in Frazee! I think it is time to go to the junk yard and just tear apart a column, and hope to make more sense out of this.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 08-20-2014).]

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seajai
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Report this Post08-20-2014 12:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A clock spring is just a coil of wire inside the round case. It winds up when the steering wheel is turned one way and unwinds when its turned the other. The center part turns with the wheel and the outer part is stationary. The wires run down the column alongside the turn signal and wiper switch wires. Buying a complete column to practice on is an excellent idea. You will need to buy a steering wheel puller and a lock plate depressor tool to get started. You will also need a tilt pivot pin puller to get the tilt housing off in order to swap out the upper steering shaft.
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post08-20-2014 01:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

A clock spring is just a coil of wire inside the round case. It winds up when the steering wheel is turned one way and unwinds when its turned the other. The center part turns with the wheel and the outer part is stationary. The wires run down the column alongside the turn signal and wiper switch wires. Buying a complete column to practice on is an excellent idea. You will need to buy a steering wheel puller and a lock plate depressor tool to get started. You will also need a tilt pivot pin puller to get the tilt housing off in order to swap out the upper steering shaft.


Now THAT sums up just about everything that I was wondering! All in one concise paragraph, Thanks! I just could not grasp it from looking at the pictures that I have seen thus far.

From my understand thus far, pretty much any GM upper steering column, as long as it is equipped with an airbag should work.... correct?

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Report this Post08-20-2014 06:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes. As long as it's the round style column.
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Report this Post08-20-2014 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for whitestarSend a Private Message to whitestarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a 97 Firebird steering wheel with the radio controls and the clock spring bought together off eBay last year I.have a 87 Gt auto with tilt steering wheel. I am working on the firebird dash, interior swap and have the radio and wanting to get the controls on the steering to work the radio. BUt I have never taken the steering wheel off the Fiero. So if I understand you guy’s right I need the column part and the firebird steering shaft too? Or will parts from the Firebird or the Seville work with Fiero column?
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Report this Post08-20-2014 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by whitestar:

I have a 97 Firebird steering wheel with the radio controls and the clock spring bought together off eBay last year I.have a 87 Gt auto with tilt steering wheel. I am working on the firebird dash, interior swap and have the radio and wanting to get the controls on the steering to work the radio. BUt I have never taken the steering wheel off the Fiero. So if I understand you guy’s right I need the column part and the firebird steering shaft too? Or will parts from the Firebird or the Seville work with Fiero column?


The Firebird column is different.

The only columns that can interchange the upper shaft with the Fiero column, are the pre-VATS round columns. You can swap an entire Firebird column in though.

I prefer to swap out to the newer columns, as it also gives you the ability to use the larger single-key setups (so you can swap to having one key for door, decklid, and ignition), as well as possibility to retain VATS if also doing swap to newer electronics that support it.
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Report this Post08-20-2014 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for whitestarSend a Private Message to whitestarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have searched for firebird column swap and similar and even read about your column swap in 2010. But haven’t had any luck find any info! Please help?
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post08-20-2014 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As I go through this process, I plan to take tons of pictures and notes. I will put together a comprehensive tutorial of all the information that I learn, and that everyone has shared with me.
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Report this Post08-20-2014 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by whitestar:

I have searched for firebird column swap and similar and even read about your column swap in 2010. But haven’t had any luck find any info! Please help?


I haven't finished my column swap yet. I was going to do the Cadillac STS electronic tilt/telescope column swap back then, but now I'm just going to use a column from a 2007 Monte Carlo, in a similar way to what RickAdy88GT did in his car, when he did his LS4 swap.

For the Firebird column, there was some pretty good info in the Firebird dash thread, IIRC. Or maybe it was in jscott1's build thread for I think it was "proud 1."
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Report this Post08-20-2014 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for whitestarSend a Private Message to whitestarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will try searching those. Thanks for the help!
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Report this Post02-03-2015 02:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85SEnochieClick Here to Email 85SEnochieSend a Private Message to 85SEnochieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post02-03-2015 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This one is a bit more on topic with the steering wheel controls

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