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Paint question by jimbolaya
Started on: 07-17-2014 11:08 AM
Replies: 19 (485 views)
Last post by: MacGyversMullet on 07-21-2014 12:41 PM
jimbolaya
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Report this Post07-17-2014 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jimbolayaClick Here to Email jimbolayaSend a Private Message to jimbolayaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My son wants a paint job. He is not desperate as the current paint is in decent shape, despite being original. THIS IS NOT A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS THE BEST PAINT. This is a question about whether a lower quality job is worth the money. My search started at Maaco, not necessarily where it will end, but it is a good reference point. I know base coat, clear coat is the best option. They offer a $1,000 job and a $1,200 job. However, my son is a teenager, in college, he does have a job, but price is of the utmost importance at this stage in his life. Maaco offer a $600 all in one paint job, where urethane and paint are mixed and its applied all at once. It has a 4 year warranty, and I know it will not shine like a base coat, clear coat, but will it look good enough for $600? Has anyone had one of these paint jobs, and what was your experience with it? Many thanks.

Jim
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post07-17-2014 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hard to say. Each shop is different. I would ask to see their work. I would also remove anything you don't want overspray on.
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2.5
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Report this Post07-17-2014 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've seen some Maaco horror stories as of late. Personally I would drive the car to a few smaller local type shops and have them lay out the details for you of what and how they would do it.
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no2pencil
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Report this Post07-17-2014 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for no2pencilClick Here to Email no2pencilSend a Private Message to no2pencilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
** disclaimer I've never been to Maaco **
My understanding of Maaco is that they are a repair center. They are better suited for painting a fender on a car that needed the fender replaced, rather than a paint shop to repaint your car. Runs & cracks are the words I hear to describe Maaco paint jobs.

Just my 2ยข, but a paint shop is going to charge more, because that's what they specialize in. Maaco will do it for cheap, but painting is not their specialty.

Again, just my opinion.

[This message has been edited by no2pencil (edited 07-17-2014).]

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fierocarparts
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Report this Post07-17-2014 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've had numerous MAACO jobs on Fieros. If you drive it, leave it outside and want a decent paint the one I use is great. Most have turned out better than some I've seen on "show cars". I've heard and seen horrible jobs come out of some shops. MAACO is a franchise, so workmanship is bound to vary.
You want an award-winning show car style paint job, get ready to pay. My "local" MAACO is a GREAT value.
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jimbolaya
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Report this Post07-17-2014 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jimbolayaClick Here to Email jimbolayaSend a Private Message to jimbolayaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, this went a little off track. This thread was not intended to be about Maaco. I just used that as a reference point. Perhaps I should not have mentioned their name, as I will also check out local paint shops. This is about a one stage paint job, versus 2 stage (base coat, clear coat) Is a one stage paint job worth it, if my son is looking to save money? I know 2 stage is better, but is the one stage a poor choice at any price? fierocarparts, you seem to think it is worth it?

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 07-17-2014).]

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jimbolaya
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Report this Post07-17-2014 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jimbolayaClick Here to Email jimbolayaSend a Private Message to jimbolayaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Evening bump.

Jim
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Old Lar
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Report this Post07-17-2014 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In 96 I had my 88 repainted at my local Pontiac dealer as a fill-in project for them. I got winter storage and the car was at their shop from December until April and it cost me $1600. I have heard that MAACO can do good paint jobs, but it is based on the shop and the painter and all MAACO shop are not equal. I had portions of my 87 repainted at a local painter because of clear coat break down..top and quarter panels down to molding strip for $600 about three years ago.
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lildevil
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Report this Post07-17-2014 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageClick Here to Email lildevilSend a Private Message to lildevilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
if your going with a metallic or pearlescent color i would say definitly go with basecoat /clearcoat. If going a solid color you could get away with a single stage for a few years. it can be buffed without taking away the metallics and can be scuffed and cleared easily if you want a clearcoat down the road.

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Report this Post07-18-2014 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought most single stage was lacquer? But apparently there is a single stage Acrylic Urethane. Doesnt sound bad.
http://www.eastwood.com/pai...ve-refinishing.html#
" Superior to acrylic, alkyd and lacquer coatings. "

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 07-18-2014).]

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Jason88Notchie
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Report this Post07-18-2014 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My Formula is in the shop now getting a singe stage job done. I will be posting a thread on it within the next few days. It may even be done today. I will be posting lots of pics!
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RyanFromMichigan
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Report this Post07-18-2014 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RyanFromMichiganSend a Private Message to RyanFromMichiganEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I realize this is not intended to be a Maaco thread, but this is an example of their "performance" $1,200 basecoat/clearcoat paint job... I just picked up the car yesterday. They had to sand down the entire car to get rid of the old enamel from a bad respray in 1999 so my total went up to $1,700. It came out way better than I expected considering the amount of work & price paid.

Edited to add: I was in a similar situation to what you describe as I initially just wanted single stage black paint, but every shop I went to quoted between $2,200 and and $4,300. I avoided even going to Maaco for a quote until I realized what I'd have to pay at a regular shop for a no-frills paint job. For the money I was able to upgrade the paint and still pay less than what I was quoted elsewhere, so I rolled the dice with Maaco. Results will vary by the individual shop I'm sure and I'm not advocating one way or the other, but I thought I would share my experience.

Classic look with a modern twist - Black Carbon Flash w/ Galaxy Silver



[This message has been edited by RyanFromMichigan (edited 07-18-2014).]

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Tooshea
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Report this Post07-18-2014 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToosheaClick Here to Email ToosheaSend a Private Message to ToosheaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A long time ago I had a truck painted at Maaco in Frederick, MD. I didnt get the $600 paint job I seem to remember it costing me more.. It was an "OK" job.. They did paint some of the interior from overspray :|.. Other than that it was an "OK" job..

I really think you get what you pay for with Maaco.

------------------
Tim and Lynn
1987 Fastback GT in restore mode..

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JohnWPB
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Report this Post07-19-2014 01:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't get me going on MAACO! (Full story here)

No matter where you go, and what type of paint job you are getting done, I can suggest one HUGE word of advice: "Get EVERYTHING in writing up front". No matter if it is a shop you know well, or a new shop, have everything detailed int he paperwork before any money is exchanged or any work done. Have things like the warranty, and other items like "No runs" or "No drips", what is and is not to be painted (Under hood / trunk ect). This way when the car is completed, and you are not happy with something that was in writing, you have a means to have them correct it.

It is common practice for paint shops to quote you a price, and then when you agree, and return to drop the car off, to tack on a few hundred dollars more for something. Keep that in mind as well.

For $600 you should be able to get a decent spray job, with basic paint and sanding. If there is any body work or extra's to be done, it will go up significantly from there.

Good luck, and let us know what you decided, and how it turns out.
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jimbolaya
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Report this Post07-19-2014 04:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jimbolayaClick Here to Email jimbolayaSend a Private Message to jimbolayaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My son is beginning to realize the cost of car ownership. I think he has decided to hold off on the paint. Thanks for everyone's thoughts.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-19-2014 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can get a pretty good base/clear paint job at Maaco for 1/2 ($600) of what you were quoted. Contrary to whats been said Maaco IS a paint shop. Their body work and damage repair is terrible in general. They are a franchise from Rampat Inc, so every one is different. Some may have good body men, but not likely. They pay $18.00 per hour max to their best body man. For your son going cheaper, Id get the integrated clear single stage from them. They start at $250 here. Do as much sanding and masking/removal as you can do. Mask your own door and hood jams with 3" tape. Their prices go up by the prep work you need done. Have him give a pizza party for about a dozen friends and give them all sandpaper and you can do your prep in an afternoon. You can look at some of their jobs to see what your local one does. Ive had the one next door shoot many all over jobs that I did the work on for car dealers, even a few of my own personal drivers. They were cheaper than doing it myself in my own shop and all looked pretty decent. I know all about Maaco, been next door to them for 35 years and personally know the owner. Hes even sent me over work sometimes on higher end cars he didnt want his own guys to work on like Corvettes and Mercedes. I just do the body work and they paint and finish them. I just did a wrecked Land Rover for him last week.
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zzzhuh
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Report this Post07-19-2014 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've read plenty of Macco stories and people just find it a waste of money. The problem is their prep work. The tools they use don't go deep enough to remove all of the paint.

If you do the prep work, primer it and then send it to them and maybe even provide the paint, your $600 will look really nice actually. Here is a video of a macco paint job on a fiero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPFIecXnd6A

Honestly, the best way I've seen a fiero be painted is taking off all of the panels and getting them painted. Problem with this is that your car is naked and on the streets it's gonna get messed with.

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The wetter the better

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post07-19-2014 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Their sanders and maskers are fast food quality. Anyone can walk in off the street with zero experience. They just hand them tape and sandpaper and point to a car, so yes the prep is the downfall. Do it yourself as well as you want it done. Dont ever buy paint for a shop. People get used to the quirks of every brand and mess up using another theyre not familiar with. Besides, you cannot buy the paint cheaper anywhere than Maaco pays for it. They mix it themselves with a brand name mixing system. Theyre actual paint cost for a whole car is less than $30. One by me uses PPG mixing system, so its not trash paint.

Personally as a professional auto painter for almost 50 years, I ALWAYS prefer to paint a car together. Everything matches where it goes, and you cant damage them putting it back together. I do some taken apart cars, mostly like pre 60s restorations, BUT it usually doubles my price. It takes up 2 or 3 stalls (that can make other money) and uses a lot more material. Last apart car I did was a 30s Lincoln and it cost him $20,000.

Specifically on a Fiero, I take out headlight covers, possibly ground effects (depending), rack or wing, possibly mirrors, and tail lights. Careful masking of the rest and you cant tell if it was apart or not...no one sees the insides of fenders and doors or under moldings...so who cares. I never have to worry about lost parts or finding attaching clips that will always break after 20 years.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 07-19-2014).]

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Carcenomy
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Report this Post07-21-2014 06:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CarcenomyClick Here to visit Carcenomy's HomePageSend a Private Message to CarcenomyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Their sanders and maskers are fast food quality. Anyone can walk in off the street with zero experience. They just hand them tape and sandpaper and point to a car, so yes the prep is the downfall. Do it yourself as well as you want it done. Dont ever buy paint for a shop. People get used to the quirks of every brand and mess up using another theyre not familiar with. Besides, you cannot buy the paint cheaper anywhere than Maaco pays for it. They mix it themselves with a brand name mixing system. Theyre actual paint cost for a whole car is less than $30. One by me uses PPG mixing system, so its not trash paint.

Personally as a professional auto painter for almost 50 years, I ALWAYS prefer to paint a car together. Everything matches where it goes, and you cant damage them putting it back together. I do some taken apart cars, mostly like pre 60s restorations, BUT it usually doubles my price. It takes up 2 or 3 stalls (that can make other money) and uses a lot more material. Last apart car I did was a 30s Lincoln and it cost him $20,000.

Specifically on a Fiero, I take out headlight covers, possibly ground effects (depending), rack or wing, possibly mirrors, and tail lights. Careful masking of the rest and you cant tell if it was apart or not...no one sees the insides of fenders and doors or under moldings...so who cares. I never have to worry about lost parts or finding attaching clips that will always break after 20 years.



+1, it might look all nice in places you normally wouldn't look if painted disassembled but damaging it while reassembling is a major concern, clips breaking is inevitable, and some parts should really just be left alone unless you have balls of steel. The roof panel in particular springs to mind.
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MacGyversMullet
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Report this Post07-21-2014 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MacGyversMulletSend a Private Message to MacGyversMulletEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have been recently shopping around for a full respray of my Lightning. I could not find anywhere that would do it less than $4000, and that was with me removing all of the trim/parts beforehand. Most places averaged in the $5,000-7,000 range and that is here in Kansas City. There just doesn't seem to be a happy medium between a "Maaco-type" shop and the higher quality shops, unless it's a questionable shop that you get a bad feeling about just walking into there.

About 20 years ago I had two cars painted by Maaco for the $500 job, one being a Fiero. I was in the same shoes as your son, where money was of the utmost importance. My experiences:
- They both had overspray in a lot of places...wheel wells, radiator, exhaust tips, trim (trunk lid seal by the rear window was fully painted, for instance). As stated above, it is a must that masking and trim removal be done at home, before the spray.
- The Fiero has a couple of drips in the paint, but the shop fixed them after I had pointed them out.
- After that, the Fiero actually turned out nice, but the one stage paint was very easy to scratch. This may have been due to the quality of paint that Maaco once used. Some shops now use better paint than they did 20 years ago.
- They will be lazy (or just quick, if that term is better ) and paint over things that shouldn't be painted, such as the seal that goes around the side mirrors, meeting with the doors...or any rubber seals that go around door handles. Things like this should be removed if you don't want them painted.
- My Supra was painted in a metallic black, rather than the straight black that it should have been. The painter (who was young) just thought it would look better and made the decision to use metallic without asking me. Funny enough, it looked good, so I wasn't all that upset. But that is the risk of unprofessionalism at cheaper shops.
- Orange peel on both. However, they do offer a $500 wet sand that will get rid of the orange peel. You can make the decision about wet sanding it after it is painted, seeing it first.
- For $500 at the time...they were both completely worth it. Money well spent.

Maaco's are franchised out and they are all different. Look for one that has received multiple awards for quality and service. That just may make the difference. I have heard great stories and horror stories from Maaco. The shops that are known for quality/service will be more diligent to repair drips/defects.
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