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Fiero build- ***parts list*** 84 se > 3.8t/c fastback, looking for advice/opinions by fierofinatic84se
Started on: 06-17-2014 12:14 AM
Replies: 15 (347 views)
Last post by: Jason88Notchie on 06-23-2014 07:40 PM
fierofinatic84se
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Report this Post06-17-2014 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinatic84seClick Here to Email fierofinatic84seSend a Private Message to fierofinatic84seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
alright, so let me preface this by saying this project is one is gonna be a long haul, probably gonna take around 7 or so years is my deadline, and right now im pooling together what ive found out and trying to figure out what all im missing, this is my first fiero build right now, ive got a donor car, however I just bought it so its my daily driver right now, its a 04 monte carlo ss(non S/C) with only 50k miles ive looked at West coast fiero, at their list and, most parts I should be able to get off the monte carlo I believe, anything that you know I will need I cant get off the car let me know, the fiero transformation as im gonna call it, now, as for the list of what is planned to be done
I know some of these plans are going to be basically, insane, but its my lifetime project, and I don't plan on getting rid of it or getting anything resembling what im going to put into it back out of it, its just my personal toy, and im into about every facet of automobile design, and this is going to showcase that interest


the transformation
------------------------------------
2.5l 84 se notchback, currently it has a bad engine and the passenger side front frame is bent a little, not seriously, just enough that the bumper and quarter panel don't fit just right, car still drove straight as an arrow
------------------------------------
___
Performance

3.8L series 2 conversion
4t65e HD transmission(possibility of LSDiff or no?)
garrett gtx3582r turbocharger (20-25psi boost)
water to air intercooler
fiero thermostat or montecarlo? not sure which housing will be used, anyone know from experience, and what temp would you recommend
aluminum coolant elbows
zzp stage 4 heads
JE forged pistons
Hbeam connecting rods
10.5mm spark plug wires
Autolite iridium Spark plugs
Clevite Bearings
Valve Cover Breather
HD electric water pump
high flow fuel pump, 80# injectors
ARP Bolts where possible
poly urethane bushings
rear bumpsteer kit
rear and front swaybars replaced/added
power steering added, either hydraulic from 3800 or electric conversion MR2
Hi amp alternator
corvette 12 in brakes
air suspension (solely because, I mean have you seen the potholes and "roads" in Kentucky?
remote oil filter kit and cooler
relocating pcm
ZZP XPZ cam
double roller timing chain
WCF engine and tranny mounts

---------
interior
pisa zr2 dash or wraparound, opinions?
replacement front speakers (component set 5.25" and tweeters
reupholstered royal blue and White seats, leather/ heated
seat speakers 4" replacements
center console speakers added
--- 2 6.50" inner foot wells
--- center 8" subwoofer,-
--- 2 4" center console sides
--- 2 tweeters on center tower
2 late model fiero speaker side panels added and speakers
2 10/12/13" subs behind seats
--- custom fiberglass center console with double din stereo
---3 jl audio hd stackable amps in passenger side under/ in dash/glovebox
all blacked out digital gauges
blue and White interior
blue interior lighting
custom door panels
suicide push button doors
gauges galore
and I saw a post about a center console economy/race/trip computer on here I was interested in, need to find the thread again
push button shifter

-------------------
exterior

igto bumper,(when/if completed) high hopes
led sequential gt taillights
fastback conversion
18x8.5 rear rims
18x8 front rims
rear window panel scoops
custom rear deck vents (sides) to work with scoops, will provide air to intercooler and oil cooler
deck lid custom built with Plexiglas insert
flip up headlights height shortened and custom projector lights
shaved doors, any ideas on the moldings?
Blue LED under glow
Metallic Royal blue paint with white/silver fiero emblem on hood and matching color trip around the bottom
Blue led lighting speakers in custom deck vents
fog lights added in behind front bumper
updating to hook style windshield wipers

also, here's a list of things that I have to fit in some limited spaces
air compressor, tank and valves for suspension,
auxiliary fuel tank maybe, heat exchangers


I might be missing something, but right now any ideas are welcome, I will be adding links and pictures as things progress, as well as some starting pictures for the condition of the car

my immediate questions and concerns are
----the possibility of adding a LSD to this transmission, is it worth it, will it hold up, im hoping for around 500hp, and probably similar torque numbers
----any special oil pan that I should get, or is the factory fine
has anyone added a remote oil filter kit to these on a fiero and where is a good place
----recommendations for valve springs and rockers
---I want to use a double roller timing chain, however I am not comfortable leaving in the balance shaft to let oil pressure bleed off and ive heard all sorts of ways to plug the oil feed line to it, but ive yet to find a good picture of it on the web and im wondering what you recommend for the best way to plug it from experience
--- oil recommendations? royal purple?
----fuel pump starvation going to be a problem from sloshing?
if theres anything that you see that might be an issue or something that needs to be brought to my attention, please bring it up, im just pooling together ideas and suggestions and knowledge at this moment, before all the real work and spending begins, also id like to get my cruise control working again, no idea whats wrong, doesn't work at all

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
currently this car is named "Blues Cruise" any suggestions for a new name

[This message has been edited by fierofinatic84se (edited 06-17-2014).]

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jediperk
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Report this Post06-17-2014 01:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First off, good luck with your project and I hope you hang in there and see it through to completion. For the transmission, your best bet is to go to zzp performance website. They can put you in contact with a gentlemen who can rebuild your transmission to handle the amount of power you are looking to make and put the LSD in at that time if it does not have it. I think you will be looking at around $4k to get the tranny solid. Also, they can help with all your 3800 questions. I would call them and go over what you are looking for and they will tell you exactly what you need and probably help you out with some of the 2nd or 3rd order affect things you don't even know you need. You should visit the build thread pages on all of the 3800 cars here in the forum. You will get a wealth of information and a lot of your questions answered. There are a plethora of 3800 subject matter experts on this site who have done/seen it all with 3800 engines. You are in good hands here...
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fierofinatic84se
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Report this Post06-17-2014 01:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinatic84seClick Here to Email fierofinatic84seSend a Private Message to fierofinatic84seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thanks, and I have chatted with zzp, don't remember who I talked to but they were seemed pretty short, although I was planning on using their transmission for the build, the engine work is by far the most daunting thing to me, ive gone minor engine work, intake head replacements but never anything serious custom built, they said the LSD would be of little use in a fiero since its rear wheel drive, which baffled me, also I would like to add to this thread, my original investment in buying this fiero is 300 dollars for a running drivning fiero, granted its beena year and the engine is toast, but still 300 for the car aint bad
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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post06-17-2014 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No offense - but if you are wanting a fastback you would be better off starting with one than to convert a 84 over to one (actually any year other than the 84 would be easier to convert to a fastback as the taillight harness would be more plug and play). There are so many wiring changes that you would be better off changing out the wiring harness (complete) with the fastback and at that point you would be better to start with one.

The 84 wiring and connectors are just not very compatible with the fastback wiring.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 06-17-2014).]

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fierofinatic84se
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Report this Post06-17-2014 11:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinatic84seClick Here to Email fierofinatic84seSend a Private Message to fierofinatic84seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
im aware the 84 is basically a PITA all the way around, however, I got it for 300 bucks so im willing to deal with the headaches, and what do you mean fastback wiring, all im changing is using a fastback body, other than the taillights, which I wont be using the factory tail lights anyway? im using the ecm for the 3800 and putting it in the engine compartment
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dcarrd
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Report this Post06-18-2014 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
whats wrong with the notchback? the 84SE's are so pretty IMo. I actually prefer the nose and even the luggage rack, it gives it a classy look lol
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fierofinatic84se
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Report this Post06-18-2014 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinatic84seClick Here to Email fierofinatic84seSend a Private Message to fierofinatic84seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
whats wrong with the notchback? the 84SE's are so pretty IMo. I actually prefer the nose and even the luggage rack, it gives it a classy look lol

Lol, mine doesn't have the luggage rack, it does have incredible deck Springs though, when you hit the trunk release it shoots up, lol
I also hate the bumpers on it,,
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jediperk
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Report this Post06-18-2014 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:

whats wrong with the notchback? the 84SE's are so pretty IMo. I actually prefer the nose and even the luggage rack, it gives it a classy look lol




Yeah, I would not waste the time/money on changing an 84 over to fastback. Swap the engine, upgrade the rims/tires, brakes, suspension (in that order) and then drive the snot out of it. My $.02...
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Report this Post06-18-2014 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

jediperk

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quote
Originally posted by fierofinatic84se:

Lol, mine doesn't have the luggage rack, it does have incredible deck Springs though, when you hit the trunk release it shoots up, lol
I also hate the bumpers on it,,


If the bumpers are what you don't like then use the 85-86 SE rear bumper so you don't have to mess with the tail lights and swap in what ever you like up front. Leave it a notch back though unless you are just looking for headache and aggravation, err a challenge .
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fierofinatic84se
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Report this Post06-18-2014 01:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinatic84seClick Here to Email fierofinatic84seSend a Private Message to fierofinatic84seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The main reason I want to use the fastback, is I plan to turn the quarter panel scoops to channel air into the deck vents, as well as fabricate the extra total blind spot space into outside speakers, I like the look of the fastback better, but I also want to retain the 84 fiero speaker seats, which if I find a good enough deal on a fastback I might just switch the seats over
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Report this Post06-18-2014 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofinatic84se:

they said the LSD would be of little use in a fiero since its rear wheel drive, which baffled me


a LSD is going to balance power from the 2 rear tires... they both equally receive weight transfer unlike a live axle or to a lesser degree IRS car sees. Also, you just dont need the traction usually.

If you want 500hp (which really is all that turbo is good for), i would take a junkyard stock motor and throw some 105lb valve springs and bigger injectors on it, it takes basically nothing to make 500 to the crank. Going turbo on a big heads cam is not for the faint, you'll need a 900hp motor and turbo to take advantage of it, and you get the questionable reliability that comes with it.

If you are staying under 1000hp, leave the motor alone. You dont really even start to think about hbeam rods until 1000-1200hp.
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fierofinatic84se
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Report this Post06-18-2014 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinatic84seClick Here to Email fierofinatic84seSend a Private Message to fierofinatic84seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


a LSD is going to balance power from the 2 rear tires... they both equally receive weight transfer unlike a live axle or to a lesser degree IRS car sees. Also, you just dont need the traction usually.

If you want 500hp (which really is all that turbo is good for), i would take a junkyard stock motor and throw some 105lb valve springs and bigger injectors on it, it takes basically nothing to make 500 to the crank. Going turbo on a big heads cam is not for the faint, you'll need a 900hp motor and turbo to take advantage of it, and you get the questionable reliability that comes with it.

If you are staying under 1000hp, leave the motor alone. You dont really even start to think about hbeam rods until 1000-1200hp.


im aiming at about 500hp at the flywheel, maybe a little more, tops, and im a big fan of going overkill, I know hbeam rods aren't necessary but id like it to be one thing less I have to worry about, and I far as the engine internals, you think a stock, non supercharged 3.8 internals are strong enough? what heads would you recommend for such a build, im trying to keep reliability pretty good, I don't want to have to worry about a lot going wrong, but I still want a strong 500 hp v6, im perfectly happy with engine strong enough for 1000 and only pushing 500, I don't wanna have to worry about the engine being at its limits

as far as the lsd, your right, I wont need the traction most of the time, but I don't want those one wheel burnouts either

[This message has been edited by fierofinatic84se (edited 06-18-2014).]

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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post06-23-2014 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofinatic84se:

im aware the 84 is basically a PITA all the way around, however, I got it for 300 bucks so im willing to deal with the headaches, and what do you mean fastback wiring, all im changing is using a fastback body, other than the taillights, which I wont be using the factory tail lights anyway? im using the ecm for the 3800 and putting it in the engine compartment


The 84 C500 harness is NOT wired for use with separate color tail lights. That is to say, separate turn signals from the brake/park lights. If you are just going to use red lens in the back for both turn and brake/park lights you will be ok - BUT if you want the different color for the turn signals (as it is with the stock tail lights) - I am not sure it is possible with the 84 C500 plug (it is possible with the 85+ coupes wiring, easier with the 86+ wiring as you have to run an extra wire and make a small change to the pins).

Not only that, the 84 C500 is really in a poor location for engine swaps with the exhaust - I am speaking from experience. Not saying it can't be done, but you have to take some extra things into consideration.

Anyways, good luck with your project.
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fierofinatic84se
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Report this Post06-23-2014 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinatic84seClick Here to Email fierofinatic84seSend a Private Message to fierofinatic84seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
The 84 C500 harness is NOT wired for use with separate color tail lights. That is to say, separate turn signals from the brake/park lights. If you are just going to use red lens in the back for both turn and brake/park lights you will be ok - BUT if you want the different color for the turn signals (as it is with the stock tail lights) - I am not sure it is possible with the 84 C500 plug (it is possible with the 85+ coupes wiring, easier with the 86+ wiring as you have to run an extra wire and make a small change to the pins).


Interesting I didn't know this, well, my plan for the taillights is to use separate lights for the turn and brake lights, I was actually planning on using fiber optic strips for the brake lights, they were going to be similar to the gt taillights, and as far as the wiring, can I use the wiring from the front turn signal power and splice into that to make the rear turn signal lights, then disconnect the rear turn signal wire and just put a led flasher module in place to mimic the rear turn signal? And then rewire the rear brake lights directly to the petal switch, or does it share the exact same wire as the turn signal, in which case I would have to rewire up everything to the respective switches, is this correct? And that would explain why the hazards act weird on that car when you press the brakes, and thank you for your input, it has been very helpful, my friends garage is full of boxes from where they moved here from Pennsylvania, so once that's out, I'm hoping to put the fiero in and start taking things apart, any more advice is always welcome, I always try to keep and open ear and and even more open mind

[This message has been edited by fierofinatic84se (edited 06-23-2014).]

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fierofinatic84se
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Report this Post06-23-2014 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofinatic84seClick Here to Email fierofinatic84seSend a Private Message to fierofinatic84seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post






heres some pictures, I meant to get a picture of the passenger side front damage but I obviously didn't, you can kind of see it from a wrong angle in one pic but you get the gist of it
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Jason88Notchie
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Report this Post06-23-2014 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You got a long haul indeed. A lot of money will have to go into that car. 7 years sounds realistic. Good luck with the build.
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