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Cooling problem, need help! by Cygnus
Started on: 05-05-2014 01:53 PM
Replies: 16 (263 views)
Last post by: Gall757 on 05-12-2014 06:22 PM
Cygnus
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Report this Post05-05-2014 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys, I did a lot of reading, and searching, but came up empty for a solution. I replaced my timing set(it skipped several teeth). While I was replacing the timing set, I replaced the water pump. I button it all up, and fill with coolant. It pukes a bunch of coolant out of the overflow during what I understood to be the fill procedure. Ok, so read and searched, thought I might have a pinched tube. I found and fixed the pinch thanks to Ogre. Now, while I was there, I replaced the hose the goes from the timing cover to the coolant tube, and both the fill cap and radiator cap, also per Ogre's write-up. I filled it this time, no puking from the reservoir, but also, no cooling. I have no hot air from heater, the radiator is ambient (though full of coolant) and the pressure is steady (it hisses at me when I take the cap off to check coolant level at engine, cold). I am at my wit's end here. Is there a possibility I got the wrong water pump? It seemed to fit properly. The only thing I haven't tried is to take the hose off the heater core to try to bleed out excess air. The hose is stuck so bad, I'm afraid of cracking/breaking the heater core. Is there a usual suspect in a case like this? Any experience or something to try? I thought about taking it to a shop, but every time I do, it comes back worse than it started. Any advice is welcome and appreciated! If you read all of this, thank you for your time!
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Report this Post05-05-2014 02:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cygnus:

The only thing I haven't tried is to take the hose off the heater core to try to bleed out excess air. The hose is stuck so bad, I'm afraid of cracking/breaking the heater core.


Instead of trying to pull a stuck heater core hose off, I find it much easier to use a knife and make a 1" incision lengthwise into the end of the hose after the clamp has been removed. After wiggling the hose around a bit it should come off relatively easy. It's then important to cut off the end of the hose removing all of the incision. Unless this has been done previously to the same hose, there should be plenty of slack to allow you to use the now 1" shorter hose.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick in This thread:

This has been covered a hundred times, but...

* Make sure rad cap is the proper one for Fiero use. The catalogs are wrong! You want a non-vented one,
* Check that the overflow tank and the small hose to the rad are both in good shape. Otherwise air gets sucked in.
* Ensure that coolant level in overflow tank is at the "Cold" level.
* Position rear end of Fiero higher than the front.
* Remove thermostat housing cap and thermostat... and then add coolant to thermostat housing with rad cap also removed until coolant runs out the top of the radiator.
* Re-install rad cap.

* Continue to add coolant until you see the level come up to where the thermostat normally sits.
* Put thermostat cap on and turn just barely enough to hold cap on.
* Start engine and run for about 30 seconds.
* Remove thermostat cap and check coolant level.
* Repeat last four steps until coolant level no longer drops.

* Re-install thermostat and thermostat housing cap.

As long as there are no blockages anywhere in the cooling system and the water pump is circulating coolant, you should be good to go.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-08-2014).]

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Cygnus
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Report this Post05-05-2014 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the heater core advice. Will do that When I get home tonight..
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Report this Post05-05-2014 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wish I had known the heater core hose trick a few months ago. But you are right, they can be stuck on there so tightly that you could damage the core by twisting them.

You might have air trapped elsewhere also. When I have to fill the coolant system, I raise the rear of the car to ensure the filler is higher than the radiator cap. I remove the cap and I fill the system one solo cup at a time. When coolant gets to the neck of the radiator, I put the cap on and continue to fill. When full, start the car without the thermostat. See if it burps. If so, add. If not, put the cap on and drive it a few minutes without the thermostat. Re-check the level. If it is full, put the thermostat in and you should be fine. Make sure you have some coolant in the overflow tank.

There is a possibility of trapping air in the heater core but it should be minimal.
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Cygnus
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Report this Post05-05-2014 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lifted the back end, did the hose trick, and the heater core was bone dry. Filled everything up, put some in the res, ran it for thirty seconds, went around the block, temp gauge was pegged when I got back to the driveway, radiator was cold. Strangest thing I have ever seen.
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Gall757
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Report this Post05-05-2014 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check again for trapped air at the thermostat. It's also possible that you have a bad pump impeller.
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Cygnus
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Report this Post05-05-2014 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
New pump, but that would explain much. Is it possible for them to be bad from the start?
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Report this Post05-05-2014 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also possible that you have a bad temp sensor or gauge.
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Cygnus
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Report this Post05-05-2014 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wish it was the temp gauge, but I can store meat on the radiator, and cook it on the engine. At the same time.
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Gall757
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Report this Post05-06-2014 09:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cygnus:

New pump, but that would explain much. Is it possible for them to be bad from the start?


Did you install it? There are still some new pumps with plastic impellers that can be bad right away. Has your car been on a lift recently? Perhaps there is a pinch in the cooling tubes.
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Cygnus
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Report this Post05-06-2014 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, I put one on it. I had it on the shelf 'till I got the testicular fortitude to do the timing set. It all went on at the same time. My best guess, at this point, is that I botched the install. Not sure how, but I'll order another pump, and see what I get. Is gates a good brand to go with? I get the belts, but never tried other stuff. Checked for pinched tubes, and stuff, looked okay. The other thing is, it cooled just fine until I replaced the pump, hasn't worked since. Has to be something I did wrong. Looks like I know what I'm doing this weekend. I was hoping to get to Missouri for mother's day, too.
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Report this Post05-06-2014 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cygnus:

New pump, but that would explain much. Is it possible for them to be bad from the start?


Metal or plastic impellar?

Did the new pump have the same fittings as the old? In some cases there's a hose pipe you have to remove and plug (with the plug from your old pump).

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-06-2014).]

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Report this Post05-06-2014 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Metal. The vanes were on the inside...and the bottom smooth, and convex. I've heard the horrors of the plastic impeller. opened up the cooling system in several places, ran a hose and flushed everything. found no stoppage. New pump coming Friday. I think this time I'll leave the gasket out, and just use RTV, see if that does it.

[This message has been edited by Cygnus (edited 05-07-2014).]

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Cygnus
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Report this Post05-12-2014 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just to close the loop, and one more thanks for the good advice! I removed that spankin' new water pump, and took a look. This is what I found:



I ended up buying two pumps, since the first had an open impeller. You can still see the difference:



I got all the other goodies on the car, too. Life is good, and the cruise to MO should go well!



Many thanks

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Patrick
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Report this Post05-12-2014 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cygnus:

Just to close the loop, and one more thanks for the good advice! I removed that spankin' new water pump, and took a look. This is what I found...

I ended up buying two pumps, since the first had an open impeller. You can still see the difference:


Now I'm confused. Are you suggesting the first pump you put on was the cause of the cooling problem because of its closed vane impeller? (... although going by your post, you appear to have referred to it as an "open impeller".) As far as I know, all OEM water pumps for the 2.8 have (or had) the closed vane impellers. I have both ACDelco and Cardone pumps here, and both have closed vanes.

EDIT: I should add that I'm also referring strictly to metal impellers. I've heard of the plastic impellers, but I've never had any experience with them... fortunately.

I have never seen the other style with the open metal vanes. What brand is that pump? To be honest, I suspect the open vane impellers are a newer style that are simply cheaper to manufacture.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-12-2014).]

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Cygnus
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Report this Post05-12-2014 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CygnusSend a Private Message to CygnusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nope, I ordered a gates water pump, and it had open vanes, and what looks like a pin hole in the casting, so I bought a Murray from the local parts shop. The big difference, the one that makes a cold radiator and an overheating engine lies in the coolant galley/pickup for the impeller. they never drilled it out, so that's a solid wall of metal where coolant should flow through to the impeller. You can see the passage in the pump without the bits of leftover gasket. I know...these things happen, but this was horribly frustrating.
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Gall757
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Report this Post05-12-2014 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I really DID see that....

thought maybe it was just a bad photo.
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