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Help with 3800SC possible purchase by BBBAD GT
Started on: 03-02-2014 07:41 PM
Replies: 18 (518 views)
Last post by: BBBAD GT on 03-14-2014 08:05 AM
BBBAD GT
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Report this Post03-02-2014 07:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BBBAD GTSend a Private Message to BBBAD GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hello again to everyone. Its been over 12 years since I've posted here. I have the chance to purchase another Fiero (had two before, 87 GT and an 84 V-8, both sold) locally that the owner doesn't know anything about the swap. I guess the person he bought it from can't be contacted, and I know almost nothing about the 3800sc (although I'm learning fast on the internet, they are nice little motors). I guess the first thing I need to find out is the series of the motor (uneven exhaust ports = S1, even exh ports, level fins on the blower and manual TB = S2, uneven fins on the blower and electric TB = S3). Its an automatic, and I need to find out what model it is (T456HD the best one?). How can I find out what car the motor came out from? The serial number on the computer box? What do I need to notice/avoid with these swaps? If you were looking at a 3800sc swapped Fiero, what would you look for with no information? Thanks, and its good to be back.

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Report this Post03-03-2014 07:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If it is not able to be fired up I would say the price drops pretty low. The 4T65E tranny is easy to spot by the larger round electrical connector on the top area just below the engines throttle body where the 4T60E had a smaller connector on the side and still had a vacuum modulator.
Check to make sure the engine is mounted good and solid as well as level and straight, check the harness to make sure it is fully connected and not touching any thing it should not, check to make sure all rad hoses and heater hoses are connected as well as fuel lines.
As long as the harness is in tact you should be able to at least get the engine to fire if not use a battery and some jumper cables to at least crank the engine over and possibly do a compression test. make sure all pulleys turn smooth especially the SC pulley should have no back and forth play.
best would be to take some one with you to look at the car that knows this engine and check every thing. Dan

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DARN Cars now open with
Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation.
Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars.
Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

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IanT720
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Report this Post03-03-2014 01:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And for the record, S2 and S3 are way way better than S1. Just based off OBD2. Easy diagnosing, and huge tuning capabilities. S2 are more common, cheaper, and can use the stock throttle. All supercharged ones have the HD Trans, and all the HD Trans use the same final drive gearing I think. For the computer controlled ones anyway (which come with all s2 and s3 engines)

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1987 Fiero GTX 3800 Turbo... My Build, ST3 Cam, Lowered, Wheels, and pics enjoy!http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

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BBBAD GT
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Report this Post03-04-2014 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BBBAD GTSend a Private Message to BBBAD GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the replys. The car I'm looking at is running, so I"m just trying to figure out what it is (or what did it come from), what has been done to it, and whats working (or working well). From the pictures, it looks like a professional job, but I won't know until I actually see it. Where do you guys normally place the computer (which I'm assuming has the VIN number on it)? Thanks.
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IanT720
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Report this Post03-04-2014 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm sure I can speak for most and say under the center consol where it was mounted stock in the fiero. Have seen it in the trunk, or by battery tray though.

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1987 Fiero GTX 3800 Turbo... My Build, ST3 Cam, Lowered, Wheels, and pics enjoy!http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

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olejoedad
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Report this Post03-04-2014 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No VIN on PCM.
Any pictures?
We love pictures.
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BBBAD GT
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Report this Post03-04-2014 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BBBAD GTSend a Private Message to BBBAD GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

No VIN on PCM.


Is there any way I can tell what the motor/trans came out of? My fear is that anyone I talk to in terms of maintaining or modifying the motor will ask 'what did it come out of', and I can only answer 'its a S1/2/3, that's all I know'.......

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Report this Post03-04-2014 02:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pictures would allow identification of what series it is. Once that is determined, repair parts are pretty much the same between divisions (chevy, buick, pontiac), same with future mods.
We like pictures.
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BBBAD GT
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Report this Post03-04-2014 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BBBAD GTSend a Private Message to BBBAD GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like pictures too, and as soon as I get one, I'll share. I guess what's worrying me a little is that each model that had the L67 probably put their own little spin on accessories and probably the tune in the computer, I could be wrong.
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Report this Post03-04-2014 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BBBAD GT:

I like pictures too, and as soon as I get one, I'll share. I guess what's worrying me a little is that each model that had the L67 probably put their own little spin on accessories and probably the tune in the computer, I could be wrong.


Nope, only difference would be oil filter bracket, and supercharger tensioner. Off the top of my head between models of car.
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Report this Post03-04-2014 05:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The W body cars basically GP, Regal and Monte had one set up where the H body Bonneville, park ave and Olds LSS another. The oil filter adapter pointed out and down on the W body and on the H bodies bent back towards the block. W body had the different SC tensioner as mentioned and upper dog bones where the H body used a single lower dog bone off the tranny snout. W body had an engine mount bracket that went under the engine and bolted to the cradle where the H body mount came straight out of the engine near the pulleys and bolted to the upper frame rail of the chassis.
Series II engines wise the 96 had a different coating on the SC and early ones had a different TB and MAF sensor as well as a vacuum tree. 97 had the vacuum tree still but has the newer SC coatings and a MAF part number ending on 04. 98 lost the vacuum tree but still had the 04 MAF. 99 up series II had a slightly larger diameter throttle body and a MAF that ended in 05. The 99 up series II's were almost identical and are not able to be distinguished from each other. The GTP was the only car to get the series III 3800SC engine from 04 on and cars like the Monte had the series II still in 04. Hope this helps
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BBBAD GT
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Report this Post03-04-2014 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BBBAD GTSend a Private Message to BBBAD GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, thanks for all the infomration. Here is a pic of the motor:



Definately not S3, and I'm not seeing the bolt hole in the middle of the blower, so S1 or S2? Thanks.
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85sliverGT
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Report this Post03-04-2014 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85sliverGTClick Here to Email 85sliverGTSend a Private Message to 85sliverGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Series 1
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Report this Post03-05-2014 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yep definitely series I, if it has the newer round style EGR it is a 94 or 95 if not it is 93 and older
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BBBAD GT
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Report this Post03-05-2014 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BBBAD GTSend a Private Message to BBBAD GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was dissapointed to see that it's a series 1 motor. I've read ton's of search threads and its the general thinking that nobody would even take one of these motors if it were free, but they do work and they are a step up from the 2.8 V6. I need to check what year this motor is, would be nice to have the 225hp version with the coated roters than the 205hp version (with smaller blower pulley I'm told).

What auto trans are involved with the S1 swaps? The stock Fiero trans I think is an option, but the normal trans that came with the S1 motors, were the 4T65E and 4T60E the only options? I need to find this out also.

Here is the thing, everything has a price on it and I'm assuming a decent Fiero that looks and runs good (80-100k miles) with a normal 2.8 V6 would probably go for $3-5k. Throw in a S2 swap and I'm sure that will raise the range to $5-8k on average. What do you guys think an S1 (later model, not the first S1) swap would go for, around $4-6k, if any increase from the stock Fiero? I know most of you have your finger on the pulse of the Fiero market, as everyone I know who appreciates their car knows their range in value.

Sorry about all they questions with this, if anybody needs similar info on Fox Mustangs, I'd gladly answer anything (I have 4 right now, 89 LX, 88 Saleen 351 supercharged, 86 SVO, and the youngest in the crowd, 99 Saleen).
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Report this Post03-05-2014 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 94/5 series I have as mentioned the newer round style EGR and are 205 HP stock same power as a series II 3800 N/A, with the smaller pulley on the 94/5 will get you to around 225 I believe but might be wrong on that.
Most do not want the series I for many reasons mostly they are an older design less reliable and have little to no after market support for upgrades and the ECM is not the best to work with. I believe all the series I's came with the 4T60E tranny or at least the last few years did.
The series II is a better over all engine and even fits better as it is lower in the engine bay then the series I making it a much better choice for a Fiero swap.
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BBBAD GT
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Report this Post03-05-2014 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BBBAD GTSend a Private Message to BBBAD GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alright, now I'm confused with what you just said Dan. I thought the 94/95 model years had the 225hp rating and the years before that with the 205hp rating per this on Wiki:

L67 Supercharged[edit]

The Series I Supercharged engine went through many internal changes and the horsepower changed rapidly between the time it was introduced and the time that the Series II L36 was introduced. The M62 supercharger was manufactured by Eaton, exclusively for the GM 3800 engine. HP was rated at 205 for 1991-1993 engines (models vary), and 225 for 1994-1995 engines. Some of the additional horsepower for 1994-95 engines was gained by using epoxy (not teflon as commonly believed) coated supercharger rotors to improve efficiency, and a larger supercharger inlet and throttle body. The 1994-1995 utilized a 2.85-inch (72.4 mm) pulley versus the 2.55-inch (64.8 mm) pulley used on the 91-93 supercharger.
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Report this Post03-05-2014 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As I said I could be wrong on the HP ratings but the main problem with the series I was not so much the power as was the lack of after market support and the series II were a better built engine designed to work with the SC not just one bolted on to it.
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Report this Post03-14-2014 08:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BBBAD GTSend a Private Message to BBBAD GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are some pics of the car.




92 Series 1 motor, 4T60EHD trans, 95k miles, swap done over 10 years ago, very clean car

He's asking $4,650, what do you think it's worth?

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87 GT *Sold*
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