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What is the factory valve cover finish color called? by weloveour86se
Started on: 02-02-2014 11:31 AM
Replies: 46 (936 views)
Last post by: dobey on 02-06-2014 05:30 PM
weloveour86se
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Report this Post02-02-2014 11:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For powder coating purposes. Has anyone found a good match for PC media? I tried the search function but nothing came up.

What is the factory color called?

Here is a link to some oranges. IDK which looks closest though. I'm thinking that Chevy orange is closest as far as I can tell. 3 pages of orange colors here.
https://www.powderbuythepou...ranges-c-360/?page=2

LMK if you have any thoughts.
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Report this Post02-02-2014 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, it is a Chevrolet engine, so that color must be pretty close. People have used a Chrysler red and a Ford paint also, with good results. It's tough to say what is right, because after 25 years the original paint must be faded, so there is no direct comparison with the 'factory color' any more.
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Report this Post02-02-2014 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Aren't they red? I wouldn't use the Chevy Orange color.

The VHT High Temp Red Brake Caliper spray paint looks pretty close to the intake/valve cover red on my Fiero at least.
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Kevin87FieroGT
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Report this Post02-02-2014 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Chrysler engine red", Dupli-Color I think, was always a good choice for touchups using rattle can spray.

[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 02-02-2014).]

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PatrickTRoof
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Report this Post02-02-2014 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickTRoofClick Here to Email PatrickTRoofSend a Private Message to PatrickTRoofEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I used Duplicolor GM Red, and to me it looks identical.
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weloveour86se
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Report this Post02-02-2014 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Aren't they red? I wouldn't use the Chevy Orange color.

The VHT High Temp Red Brake Caliper spray paint looks pretty close to the intake/valve cover red on my Fiero at least.


IDK. Lol maybe I have some color blindness but I thought they were more of an orange. Hmm. Interesting you say red.

I will be powder coating them so paints are out of the question. The plenum is cast aluminum correct? And the valve covers are stamped? Cast aluminum parts must be degassed prior to PC'ing them is why I ask.

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Report this Post02-02-2014 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Valve covers are cast aluminum.

red/orange orange/red....they all sort of run together at times...I bet the Chevy color is right...the 2 small circles are the same color...

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 02-02-2014).]

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dobey
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Report this Post02-02-2014 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:
Valve covers are cast aluminum.

red/orange orange/red....they all sort of run together at times...I bet the Chevy color is right...the 2 small circles are the same color...


But the two small circles are not the color of the parts on my car. They are definitely red.

Now, if it was the paint color for the block in a 69' Vette or something, I'd totally agree with that Chevy Red-orange color. But while the Fiero 2.8 is technically a "Chevy" engine, it didn't get the Chevy branding in the Pontiacs (I don't think any part of was even the Chevy red-orange color in the Chevys).

If you're totally stripping the parts down to bare metal and getting them powdercoated, I'd just go with the standard red that powdercoaters use.

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 02-02-2014).]

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Report this Post02-02-2014 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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Yeah, that is definitely red.
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jon m
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Report this Post02-02-2014 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jon mSend a Private Message to jon mEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
if you can wait a week when i get home i can give you the ral number for a near perfect match

jon
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Report this Post02-02-2014 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:



Yeah, that is definitely red.


You're right! That is definitely RED. My stock engine is not that color.
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Report this Post02-02-2014 02:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


But the two small circles are not the color of the parts on my car. They are definitely red.

Now, if it was the paint color for the block in a 69' Vette or something, I'd totally agree with that Chevy Red-orange color. But while the Fiero 2.8 is technically a "Chevy" engine, it didn't get the Chevy branding in the Pontiacs (I don't think any part of was even the Chevy red-orange color in the Chevys).

If you're totally stripping the parts down to bare metal and getting them powdercoated, I'd just go with the standard red that powdercoaters use.



Vermillion?
http://www.temprest.com/wp-...2-vermillion-i18.png

I will be PC'ing the parts myself. I do have a red from Summit Racing but I think it's way to bright.


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Report this Post02-02-2014 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Duplicolor calls it DE1607 Chevrolet Orange-Red. (avoiding the controversy)

http://www.tcpglobal.com/sp...depot/DC-engine.aspx
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hyperv6
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Report this Post02-02-2014 03:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The closest color paint out is the Chrysler Engine Red. It is a base red on the verge of a Orange.

Chevy Orange is a Orange and not really much red to it. I have painted enough Chevy engines to know that the Chevy color is not even close.

I have used the Chrysler Red for touch up and it blends in very well.

Note my car is a low mile V6 with intact original powder coat with no fade. It is the color it was when it left the factory.

Note the oranges will be too oranges and most reds are too dark or too red. the Chrysler color is the best you will find.
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Report this Post02-02-2014 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just looked in the garage. From the spray can.

Dupli-Color
Engine Enamel
Chrysler Red
DE - 1632
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dobey
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Report this Post02-02-2014 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by weloveour86se:
Vermillion?


I'd say 3002 Carmine Red maybe, from that color chart. But that chart is also fairly low quality in terms of color matching, so it's a little hard to tell what exactly is different between those red colors.

Both my Fieros are the original factory coating on the intake and valve covers, and it is far from being any amount of orange. It is definitely a red color.

If the color on your car looks orange-ish or pink-ish then it's definitely faded. The original color is red. I'd say just pick the matte red color that you like best. It might just be hard for you to find matte powder though.
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Report this Post02-02-2014 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I say Chrysler red too. They are no shade of orange.
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Report this Post02-02-2014 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, let's just throw in another color. I've used Ford Engine High Temp Red as a spray color. The reason for that is that it's very very close to what I saw on a very well-preserved low mileage engine. I didn't compare the Chrysler red to see what was closer, but to the untrained eye or without the piece being layed beside an original new piece, how ya gonna tell?
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Report this Post02-02-2014 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I use the "Ford" VHT red when I repaint engine parts.

Rob
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Report this Post02-03-2014 08:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Now, if it was the paint color for the block in a 69' Vette or something, I'd totally agree with that Chevy Red-orange color. But while the Fiero 2.8 is technically a "Chevy" engine, it didn't get the Chevy branding in the Pontiacs (I don't think any part of was even the Chevy red-orange color in the Chevys).



I agree. And actually, GM had probably phased out the Chevy orange entirely by the time the Fiero came along. The "corporate" blue had taken its place.

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Report this Post02-03-2014 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BrittBSend a Private Message to BrittBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I went with Chevy orange on my valve covers because that's what I was told was right, it wasn't! Upper intake was fine and didn't require repaint and boy can you tell the difference. I didn't have the time required for a repaint so on they went but it doesn't look bad and I may repaint the upper intake to match. Given the chance to do it all again I would have went with the correct red color because it is a red car.
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Report this Post02-03-2014 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well finding the right color in a shaker can is one thing. Finding the right color in powder coating media is another.

Either this Ferrari red?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pow...&hash=item19d130ef62

Or this vermilion?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eas...em35d16fbb6c&vxp=mtr

Otherwise it's just a bunch of high gloss reds and mirrors reds or flat reds. I couldn't find a Chevy red or Chrysler red...
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Report this Post02-03-2014 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:


I agree. And actually, GM had probably phased out the Chevy orange entirely by the time the Fiero came along. The "corporate" blue had taken its place.


1976 was the last year for Chevy orange if I recall correctly. The engines went to blue and then in the mid 80's to black.

Again the Pontiac color here is in no way even close to Chevy Orange.

Trust me many of the members of the Cleveland Fiero's have restored their cars and the Chrysler Red is the closest color to my original powered coat you will find. Their engines look great.
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weloveour86se
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Report this Post02-03-2014 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jon m:

if you can wait a week when i get home i can give you the ral number for a near perfect match

jon


Hmm. Ral number you say?

See if this link works. Maybe one of these colors? I honestly had to look up what "RAL" stands for. Learned something!
http://www.prismaticpowders...wder-coating-colors/

Edit to add a pic I found of a pretty great shape upper I sold. Wish I still had it!

[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 02-03-2014).]

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Report this Post02-03-2014 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by weloveour86se:
Hmm. Ral number you say?

See if this link works. Maybe one of these colors? I honestly had to look up what "RAL" stands for. Learned something!
http://www.prismaticpowders...wder-coating-colors/


http://www.prismaticpowders.com/colors/PWB-6450/
http://www.prismaticpowders.com/colors/E-9125B/
http://www.prismaticpowders.com/colors/PMB-2131/

These look like the closest matches I could find on that site. I'd say just pick the one which you think looks the best, and go with it.
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Report this Post02-04-2014 12:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BrittBSend a Private Message to BrittBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The valve covers and middle and upper intake would look good polished too!
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Report this Post02-04-2014 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I overlayed the 2. Your color is pretty close when the light is hitting it. See the throttle body side in the bright light compared to the color of your blower pipes. Pretty close. I'd just stick to the powder you already used.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 02-04-2014).]

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Report this Post02-04-2014 06:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BrittB:

The valve covers and middle and upper intake would look good polished too!


Yeah I am planning on doing the valve covers as well, same color as what ever color I end up using. Very interesting though that you mention the middle intake. I honestly hadn't though of PC'ing that part. Now you have me wondering what that might look like! And maybe (not to complicate things) if I could use a different color to accentuate the upper and valve covers.

TY BrittB!


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Report this Post02-04-2014 06:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

weloveour86se

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quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

I overlayed the 2. Your color is pretty close when the light is hitting it. See the throttle body side in the bright light compared to the color of your blower pipes. Pretty close. I'd just stick to the powder you already used.




Awesome IMSA! TY for your time! You make a very good point! And if I did this at least they would match!

Summit Racing signal red is what I used on those blower tubes.

GAH! I honestly had no idea finding just the right color would be such a to do. TYVM everyone for chiming in and your time!

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Report this Post02-04-2014 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I touched up my 88's plenum with the Ford engine red, got it at NAPA I believe. I sprayed the can into the lid and then used a brush. It matches so well you cant see where I touched up.
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Report this Post02-04-2014 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rather than trying to do the color match over the web, might I suggest you purchase a can of Chrysler Red or another color in a spray can. Paint a couple unneeded parts and then take them to a few local powder coaters for a color match. $7 for the spray could save you allot of guess work and you will know exactly how it will turn out. You will also have the spay for any touch up after the install. Powder coating does sometimes chip.
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Report this Post02-04-2014 12:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kevin87FieroGT:

Paint a couple unneeded parts and then take them to a few local powder coaters for a color match.


If you do this take my advice. When you go to the powdercoating shops, go on a sunny day in the middle of the day. Any color chips that look close indoors, take them all outside and see what the color comparison looks like outdoors in the sunlight. Only foolproof method I know of to get a good color match.
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Report this Post02-04-2014 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Unless they have a 'sun' light. Most paint stores have them. They shine with the same intensity and spectrum of the sun. It still a good idea to look at it outside in the sun.

JFYI, I looked in my GM color book and from 84-88, the only GM engine color listed is blue. It dont have any red or orange listed for any GM car. I even specificly looked under Fiero.... and interior, dash, ground effects and wheel colors are all listed .
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Report this Post02-04-2014 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
JFYI, I looked in my GM color book and from 84-88, the only GM engine color listed is blue. It dont have any red or orange listed for any GM car. I even specificly looked under Fiero.... and interior, dash, ground effects and wheel colors are all listed .


Makes sense. Though I'd expect black to be there. And I think the Fiero was the only GM car that had a painted intake and valve covers in that era, until the red LT4 intake in '94. No?
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Report this Post02-04-2014 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for weloveour86seSend a Private Message to weloveour86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
TY for the great advice everyone! I am all eyes/ears!

Find the right color in a rattle can, shoot some spare parts, bring them to local PC'er for powder, check the color match in day light. All great tips! TYVM.

 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Unless they have a 'sun' light. Most paint stores have them. They shine with the same intensity and spectrum of the sun. It still a good idea to look at it outside in the sun.

JFYI, I looked in my GM color book and from 84-88, the only GM engine color listed is blue. It dont have any red or orange listed for any GM car. I even specificly looked under Fiero.... and interior, dash, ground effects and wheel colors are all listed .


Sorry Roger but could you explain the second half of the above quoted post a little bit more? Are you saying that the GM color book makes no reference to what ever the color actually is on a 2.8L Fiero intake and valve covers?

Interesting. I would think that there would be someone, somewhere that has a book that tells this information straight from the proverbial horses mouth so to speak. Some GM literature some where must cover this. IDK...

Anyway TY everyone for your advice, tips, and time! Feel free to chime in if anyone has more!
Andrew


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Report this Post02-04-2014 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by weloveour86se:
Sorry Roger but could you explain the second half of the above quoted post a little bit more? Are you saying that the GM color book makes no reference to what ever the color actually is on a 2.8L Fiero intake and valve covers?


The book Roger mentioned is about engine colors. That would be any paint applied to the iron block/heads, and not intakes or valve covers. Aluminum parts were unpainted. There may be a book somewhere that lists the exact color, but you may never find it. The paint on the intake and valve covers was also not a regular maintenance item, nor an option. Every 2.8 Fiero had the same color. This would also make it more difficult to find information on, as re-painting the intake and valve covers was probably never mentioned in any service manuals either.
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Report this Post02-05-2014 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Generally engine parts and the block are the same color...that includes block, heads, valve covers and intake manifold. Ive never seen them different colors. When the engine color is listed its supposed to be all the color painted parts. Blacks are a different story, some brands use up to 5 different blacks on one engine, usually by the amount of gloss it has. The paint book shows the color the engine components are supposed to be painted. In the Corvette specific book, every black part is listed by its gloss....gloss, semi gloss, low gloss, matt, and flat. Each has different amounts of flattening agent added. As he said, alloy parts generally are never painted.

The Fiero engine color is not listed in the book. My guess is the engine plant just mixed a bunch of left over paint together and used that. Factories pull that kind of stuff all the time to use up old stock. You used to see it a lot on cars they called 'special editions'. Things like putting 95 graphics or trim on 96 models till they used them up.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 02-05-2014).]

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Report this Post02-05-2014 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
In the Corvette specific book, every black part is listed by its gloss....gloss, semi gloss, low gloss, matt, and flat.


What does it say for the LT4? The block and intake are definitely different colors there.

I highly doubt the Fiero intake/valve cover paint is "left over" stock of paint, given it was consistently used on every V6 Fiero that was produced.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post02-05-2014 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So they had 400 gallons of orange they no longer needed and added some other left overs. They got rid of any waste they did have. Ive seen this type of thing done many times before. Im saying if it was a specific production color, it should be in the book that has all the other engine colors for every other brand. Why would they specificly ONLY leave out Fiero color when they give every other parts color on one. The only answer that seems reasonable to me is it is no manufactured color.

Ill see if my production book has the Corvette colors, but I need the year you want. I gave all my Corvette restoration documents to a friend thats a Bloomington Gold Corvette Judge. It even told me what engine parts had overspray from the factory and where on the body the paint was skimpy, rough, or had runs.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 02-05-2014).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post02-05-2014 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
^ +1

After a career in the auto industry, I have seen more undocumented 'running changes' than I can count. Most go undetected.by the buyer (in this case, the buyer would be Pontiac). It would be interesting to line up a dozen upper plenums at a Fiero flea market and see if they are all the same color.
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