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Tubular front end almost ready for install by qwikgta
Started on: 01-20-2014 03:17 PM
Replies: 25 (1929 views)
Last post by: Jims88 on 03-17-2014 07:20 PM
qwikgta
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Report this Post01-20-2014 03:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So a long time ago I picked up an Aurart Motorsports tubular front end, QA1 coil over kit, for my 88. I also picked up the 13" Wilwood brake kit and a set of 1.5" dropped spindles. I finally got around to putting it all together, and this pic is my progress. Took a while to get the spring size correct, and I have had to "tweek" every part that I have installed so far, but i'm almost done. I still have a few nut/bolts to source for the upper control arms and finish painting my 88 rack, then I can start "tweeking" the dropped spindles before in slap them on (minor interference between the caliper and mounting bracket). I'll get some better pics when the wx is better.





Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 01-20-2014).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post01-20-2014 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very cool. I'm seriously considering the AMS Sport Front Suspension kit for my '87 Fiero. I actually installed one of those kits on a local club member's car (and he's really happy with it), so I know what's involved already.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing your new suspension installed. And just out of curiosity, would you care to go into more detail about the tweaks and mods you performed?

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 01-20-2014).]

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Jim88GT
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Report this Post01-20-2014 04:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jim88GTClick Here to Email Jim88GTSend a Private Message to Jim88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Quit slacking - it's 60 and sunny today - get some pics!

Jim
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post01-20-2014 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very niiiiiiice! (although I may not be the most unbiased commentator )
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qwikgta
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Report this Post01-20-2014 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:
Very cool. I'm seriously considering the AMS Sport Front Suspension kit for my '87 Fiero. I actually installed one of those kits on a local club member's car (and he's really happy with it), so I know what's involved already.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing your new suspension installed. And just out of curiosity, would you care to go into more detail about the tweaks and mods you performed?


It would literally take me hour to type up all the issues I have had with this "bolt on kit". Bottom line is that nothing has bolted on that didn't require some level of modification/fabrication. I assumed that I could just remove the old stuff, and put on the new, that has not been my experience. I also had a lot of issues with the initial order. Missing parts, wrong parts, poorly made parts, bad powdercoat. Richard has made good on everything I have brought to his attention, some of the smaller issues I have just worked through. For the money I spent on this stuff I can only say I would not do it again.
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mattman134
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Report this Post01-20-2014 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's....beautiful
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LornesGT
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Report this Post01-20-2014 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LornesGTSend a Private Message to LornesGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That not what I wanted to hear. Much further down the road I had this in my sites. What was your most major 2 issues?
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qwikgta
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Report this Post01-20-2014 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LornesGT:

That not what I wanted to hear. Much further down the road I had this in my sites. What was your most major 2 issues?


Build quality (no attention to detail) and lack of knowledge about the product they sell.

some issues: LCA do not fit the subframe (ends 1/4 too narrow), LCA shock mounting not square (shocks angle not 90'), UCA ends not square (which caused issues installing the poly/cross shaft), dropped spindle rotor bracket welded off center and not welded in the correct spot (Wilwood caliper not centered on rotor), coil overs: 3x different springs to get the correct fit, spindles missing support bracket between hub body and steering arm, spindles had steering holes drilled upside down, steel brake line hardware will not fit the hardline on car (metric vs SAE).

I also expect to find a problem with the rear wilwood calipers interfering with the rotors. A friend just put the 13" wilwood kit on his 88 and had many of the same issues that I have. He had the brake line hardware issue and on his the rear rotors had to be turned down a few mm because the holes for the calipers put them in the wrong place. They would not fit until he had the rotors turned down (made smaller, not thinner). He also had the interference with one of his spindles and the caliper/rotor like I have (same spindle).

I also had missing hardware, wrong parts sent to me, missing parts and what really pissed me off was the lack of quality control before they ship the stuff. No one checks to see if all the parts are included, or if they have sent three left calipers and one right side caliper, or if they are shipping off two left LCA, or if the powder coat looks good or not. They are hard to reach on the phone or email and when talking about the coil over springs, Richard was asking me what size I needed. How the hell do I know, its his kit, put the correct size springs in the kit. (not LB rating, but physical size)

Now let me be clear, Richard did make good on getting me the missing parts, and took care of shipping me the stuff that was wrong, but i still had to live with the crappy powder coat and all the ill fitting parts.

If you do this, do not pay for powder coat, his guy sucks. tell him to ship the parts bare and get them done yourself.

Unfortunately AMS is the only game in town for some of this stuff, so you have no one else to buy from.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 01-20-2014).]

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Bloozberry
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Report this Post01-20-2014 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow. I had none of these issues when it was Held Motorsports.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post01-21-2014 01:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta: Unfortunately AMS is the only game in town for some of this stuff, so you have no one else to buy from.

Unfortunately, this seems to be how things work in the Fiero world. There aren't many vendors who still mfg custom stuff for our cars. So in many cases, your only options are to deal with the one mfgr who still makes what you want, or learn how to DIY.

That said, I have my heart set on coilovers and tubular control arms for my Fiero. And AMS is the only source for them. I also recently bought their '88 cradle swap kit (nobody else sells such a thing), and it came with parts missing. But Richard shipped out the missing parts pretty quick. Call me jaded, but I'm guessing that will happen when I order the Sport Front Suspension, also. And I'll just have to grin and bear it.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 01-21-2014).]

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RCR
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Report this Post01-21-2014 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRClick Here to Email RCRSend a Private Message to RCREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry about your issues, but it sure looks great...Nice job.

Bob

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 01-21-2014).]

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Report this Post01-21-2014 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That sucks, makes me wish i didn't sell the ht parts i had. Hopefully they get these issues corrected.

[This message has been edited by Macs86GT (edited 01-21-2014).]

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Report this Post03-11-2014 11:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BridgetownSend a Private Message to BridgetownEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Doesn't west coast fiero make tubular front suspension components?
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olejoedad
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Report this Post03-12-2014 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Improperly made or ill fitting parts should have been corrected by the vendor, not the customer. I would have shipped anything back that was not properly made, or returned them for a refund.
How confident are you with the quality of the welds from the vendor?

I too have had issues with product from this vendor; fitment, alignment, general quality of finish. I have spoken to him on several occassions in an effort to help him improve his product.

I hope he is able to get his house in order.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 03-12-2014).]

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Sourmug
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Report this Post03-12-2014 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SourmugSend a Private Message to SourmugEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I was thinking about doing this at one point as well. There were one or two others up here in Alberta who purchased this and they reported the same issues. Crossed it off my list.

Nolan
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Report this Post03-12-2014 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
if you have an 84 to 87 , i dont know if i would do the tubular arms / coilover again .I think i would get Rodneys drop ball joints and a good set of adjustable shocks .I have found that height adjustment in the rear to be more important than the front .And a coilover kit for the rear struts is pretty cheap .I have extensively modified my front kit to get it the way it is now .
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qwikgta
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Report this Post03-14-2014 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd ditch it all if I could, but I have over $4K invested in this stuff so I can't stop now.




Every single part has had issues. Most recently, the two dropped spindles are not symmetrical. in other words, the brake caliper on one is clocked at the 4 o'clock posit, on the other its at the 5 o'clock posit. Not a big deal except that the one at the 5 o'clock posit puts the brake caliper in a position to now hit the lower control arm. The other brake caliper clears the lower control arm by about half an inch. Also both of them contact the sway bar end links, so now I have to get a longer set, no big deal, except I ordered a set of RD "zero lash" ones, so now I have to talk with RD about how I can get a longer set.

Last piece of the puzzle was putting on the steering rack, and the rack parts. Did the install and everything was fitting fine, I was actually thinking I'd finally found something that was going to work without me having to modify, but just when I thought it was safe to recommend AMS, I hit another snag. One of the steering end links would not fit into the spindle hole. Its drilled too small. I know it is because I am not able to put either of the end links into the hole, but they both fit in the other. I've attempted to drill out the hole to make it larger, but all three of my 1/2 drill bits just smoked as I tried to drill it out.

More soon.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 03-14-2014).]

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solotwo
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Report this Post03-14-2014 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Improperly made or ill fitting parts should have been corrected by the vendor, not the customer. I would have shipped anything back that was not properly made, or returned them for a refund.
How confident are you with the quality of the welds from the vendor?

I too have had issues with product from this vendor; fitment, alignment, general quality of finish. I have spoken to him on several occassions in an effort to help him improve his product.

I hope he is able to get his house in order. Hmmm I was thinking of this for down the road as it seems better than the stock crossmember and it's problems.


Held sold to a party here in our area. They were in GR and moved to Nunica.

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 03-14-2014).]

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Report this Post03-14-2014 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very pretty looking front end! Sorry to hear your having so much trouble with it. I had a few problems with my HELD Slalom kit, but nothing that wasn't able to be fixed. I'm sure once you've got the issues sorted out of it you're going to enjoy it.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post03-14-2014 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by solotwo:


Held sold to a party here in our area. They were in GR and moved to Nunica.



They are now called West Shore Fabricators, also Arrault Motorsports.
Richard comes across as a nice guy and concerned about getting good parts out to his customers.
As I said previously, I hope he gets his house in order.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post03-16-2014 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

if you have an 84 to 87 , i dont know if i would do the tubular arms / coilover again .I think i would get Rodneys drop ball joints and a good set of adjustable shocks .I have found that height adjustment in the rear to be more important than the front .

Not sure about anyone else, but I don't really care about height adjustment in the front. But here's what I do care about:

-- The stock suspension springs don't have many spring rates to choose from. Coilover springs are available in many spring rates and sizes.
-- The '84-87 suspension places the shock absorber over to the side of the control arm. I want the shock absorber in the center.
-- Stock lower control arms are heavy and bulky. Tubular control arms will weigh less, and can mount coilover assemblies.

That said, I don't think the Arraut Sport Front Suspension kit addresses the UCA mounting sleeve problem. And my Fiero has that problem. The ends of the sleeves are loose, so the upper control arms shift during braking and cornering.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post03-16-2014 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Blacktree, doesn't the Slalom front end include the cross member?
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Blacktree
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Report this Post03-16-2014 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, their Slalom front suspension has its own crossmember. But it also costs an extra $1500.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 03-16-2014).]

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Report this Post03-16-2014 03:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The slalom front end is a complete setup with crossmember and it has improved geometry over the stock 84 -87 .The OP of this thread is using an 88 sport front end kit with drop spindles from Arrault .I think he has done a beautiful job of it I would like to add .My setup is on an 86 and I am using the Sport front suspension kit but I purchased from Ryane motor sports .I think they were the second MFR of these kits , originally a co called Formula One Racing Products . I agree with everything the OP has stated about these kits except my powder coating looked really good .The original springs at 8" and (my choice of rate) 260 LB were both too light and too short .I had to change springs right away to avoid bottoming out .the slots for the upper ball joints for camber adjustment needed to be lengthened by 1/4" to get the camber right .I did not have a problem with the way the upper arm bolted up , but very hard to get the caster exactly right because the arms were not uniform side to side .Not terrible , but still slightly different .I have since added street dreams by ross drop spindles ,modified the upper shock mounts and upper control arms to use the much better QA-1 adjustable coil overs .A lot of work to get this setup to the way I wanted it , And that is why I do not know if I would do it again .
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Report this Post03-17-2014 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SourmugSend a Private Message to SourmugEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

I'd ditch it all if I could, but I have over $4K invested in this stuff so I can't stop now.

Snip...


Hi Rob:

Hope that you didn't find our comments discouraging. Mine were just intended to confirm that others are having issues too. Looks like you have a pile of hard work into it and it certainly shows!

Nolan
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Report this Post03-17-2014 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jims88Click Here to Email Jims88Send a Private Message to Jims88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That looks real NICE.
Not to mention when your done I bet it performs as good as it looks
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