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3D Printing by engine man
Started on: 01-01-2014 04:57 PM
Replies: 15 (843 views)
Last post by: Domtech on 04-01-2015 03:39 PM
engine man
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Report this Post01-01-2014 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi all i saw this 3D printing and first thing i thought about was GT tailight lenses or even wide body panels they just need a big enough machine watdh the video
http://www.wimp.com/functionaltools/
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Grantman
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Report this Post01-01-2014 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
my son is dating a gal whose dad has one of these printers. way cool.

someday you'll use one of these to make dew wipes!!

------------------
1986 Fiero GT Fastback 3.4Lpr with 4T60
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with "big boy" 5.9 motor
1983 Honda Goldwing 1100 Interstate

[This message has been edited by Grantman (edited 01-01-2014).]

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engine man
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Report this Post01-01-2014 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ya in 1 of the videos i watched they made a real gun that was metal from what i understand they have them that do metal,plastic or gypsum. steel gun video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7ZYKMBDm4M

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 01-01-2014).]

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Neils88
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Report this Post01-01-2014 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I used one at the lab at the university I used to go to all the time. They are definitely great for smaller parts. I haven't seen one that can do clear lenses successfully (there may be one somewhere). The downside is the length of time they take to print...and the cost. Printing size is limited to the machines envelope, often around 12"x12"x12". Machines cost as low as about $25k and up to several hundred thousand+ depending on what materials you want to print in and the size. A small object can easily take 10-12 hours to print...but fun to watch

However, having said that, you can relatively easily build your own...

I built my own 3D CNC mill, and designed it so that I could change the milling head with an extrusion head...when I get the energy to build one. My mill probably cost me around $750 to build.

Adding an extrusion head would probably only cost me another $150 or so...

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cam-a-lot
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Report this Post01-02-2014 05:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think there is no way you will be able to build a 3D printer yourself that can print tail light lenses. It is far more complex to build tail light lenses than it seems. I have used Z corp and Objet 3D printers. They are pretty cool, but you won't get multi-color, multi part, multi opacity and highly accurate parts such as tail light lenses out of it, especially since there doesn't seem to be a full 3D CAD model of the entire assembly available. Plus, the size of the 3D printer would have to be enormous. Building a home made CNC mill is a breeze in comparison- very simple technology. 3 ballscrews, 3 servo motors, encoder, spindle, and you are done.

[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 01-02-2014).]

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Curlrup
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Report this Post01-02-2014 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CurlrupClick Here to visit Curlrup's HomePageSend a Private Message to CurlrupEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi everybody.

I work in a lab full of industrial professional grade 3D printers or as ASTM calls it Additive Manufacturing Machines( Google SLA, SLS, DMLS, Polymer Jetting or Objet, Binder Jetting, and FDM we have at least one of each). You name the process we have it including metal. You could possibly make a usable tail light but it will not look like a factory spec part. Since you are layer polymer you have build lines. You could use a couple of process that would give you clear lense after some finsih work but the polymer is not stable enough to make something that will last a long time. Now a pattern for a mold and cast urethane yeah you cold do that.
That video posted is a nice explaination of how one process works but it is also full of crap. They make it seem like that wrench is usable. It is not. That wrench is made of gypsum powder and super glue. It wold break as soon as you put any torque on it. Also the scanning of a wrench and just pushing a button to replicate the wrench and all of it's working parts does not work like that. Infact I can tell you the fiile they used to print the wrench was not derived from the scan data they showed. That file has been around the industry for years. Also that scanner would not have gotten all of the geometry of all of those parts unless that wrench was taken apart. Scanning is line of sight. If the scanner can't see it, it can't capture the 3d data. So nice video but complete BS. We also have scanners that will capture a whole building down to a nickle.

I even have my own machine that I use to build parts for my full scale R2D2 and soon some Fiero parts. It is a small FDM machine and works pretty good.

There is a lot of hype surrounding addiitve manufacturing. It has been around since the late 1980's. I have been in the business for over a decade. Some people think this is a new technology. Nope Evey major manufacturer in the US has been using it since the 1980's or 1990's. Every product you use has been iterated on one of these machines. Also people have HUGE expectations of these machines. Quite frankly the parts are ok at best. They can be used as end use items in certain circumstances, and the metal machines...don't even get me started. Not cheap, not fast, and you still need to post machine the parts to some degree. It is not an end all be all for manufacturing. Injection molding, and machining still reign supreme and will for a while. However, the machines and materials are getting better and better.

Great technology. It pays my bills. Don't believe the hype.
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lateFormula
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Report this Post01-02-2014 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Curlrup:
Also people have HUGE expectations of these machines. Quite frankly the parts are ok at best. They can be used as end use items in certain circumstances, and the metal machines...don't even get me started. Not cheap, not fast, and you still need to post machine the parts to some degree. It is not an end all be all for manufacturing. Injection molding, and machining still reign supreme and will for a while. However, the machines and materials are getting better and better.


Exactly. I work for a major tier one supplier to the auto industry in a mechanical engineering group, and we regularly get RP (rapid prototype) samples of parts. We primarily use SLA and SLS, but I have gotten samples from other machines as well (Objet, FDM and DLMS). The parts are good to take to meetings with the customer to show them a part they can hold in their hands, but beyond that they have little usefulness. To me RP parts from any machine today are pretty much show-and-tell parts, but quite simply do not measure up to a tooled part.
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Neils88
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Report this Post01-02-2014 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cam-a-lot:

I think there is no way you will be able to build a 3D printer yourself that can print tail light lenses. It is far more complex to build tail light lenses than it seems. I have used Z corp and Objet 3D printers. They are pretty cool, but you won't get multi-color, multi part, multi opacity and highly accurate parts such as tail light lenses out of it, especially since there doesn't seem to be a full 3D CAD model of the entire assembly available. Plus, the size of the 3D printer would have to be enormous. Building a home made CNC mill is a breeze in comparison- very simple technology. 3 ballscrews, 3 servo motors, encoder, spindle, and you are done.



Just to clarify. ... I didn't mean to imply that they should build one to print clear lenses. .. as I said, I've never seen any successful clear prints. But building a 3d printer isn't that hard if you can build a 3d mill. The extrusion head is relatively simple. Lots of great forums on the subject. Having a 3d printer would be nice for making small prototype parts for the Fiero. Unfortunately I don't have access to the one I used to use at the university since I moved. I use my mill for everything from wood, plastic, aluminum to circuit boards. I will be adding the extrusion head once I have some free time to devote to it.

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nitroheadz28
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Report this Post01-02-2014 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nitroheadz28Send a Private Message to nitroheadz28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lateFormula:


Exactly. I work for a major tier one supplier to the auto industry in a mechanical engineering group, and we regularly get RP (rapid prototype) samples of parts. We primarily use SLA and SLS, but I have gotten samples from other machines as well (Objet, FDM and DLMS). The parts are good to take to meetings with the customer to show them a part they can hold in their hands, but beyond that they have little usefulness. To me RP parts from any machine today are pretty much show-and-tell parts, but quite simply do not measure up to a tooled part.


I agree, I work as a manufacturing/ design engineer for a company specializing in plastics, mainly acrylic. We use Stratasys printers make SLAs to show customers and even just separating the support/ fill material from the actual part can be a PITA. Just today I stabbed myself separating a vac form lol.

[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 01-02-2014).]

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jc8367
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Report this Post03-30-2015 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jc8367Click Here to Email jc8367Send a Private Message to jc8367Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Has anyone explored this further? The 3D printing service I spoke with claim to only need a CAD drawing of the lens and know the type of plastic to use.

[This message has been edited by jc8367 (edited 03-30-2015).]

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CoolBlue87GT
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Report this Post03-30-2015 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolBlue87GTClick Here to Email CoolBlue87GTSend a Private Message to CoolBlue87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Curlrup:


That video posted is a nice explaination of how one process works but it is also full of crap. They make it seem like that wrench is usable. It is not. That wrench is made of gypsum powder and super glue. It wold break as soon as you put any torque on it. Also the scanning of a wrench and just pushing a button to replicate the wrench and all of it's working parts does not work like that. Infact I can tell you the fiile they used to print the wrench was not derived from the scan data they showed. .


Your right, they did not scan that. If you look at the wrench he's holding in the start on the video, it has a large circle hole on the end. The printed one does not, and it has a little ring on the end.

I will say it's amazing technology.
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jscott1
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Report this Post03-30-2015 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Gigabot is more than big enough to print the lens... trying to get them interested enough to print a $1250 lens...

http://www.re3d.org/
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Domtech
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Report this Post03-30-2015 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DomtechClick Here to Email DomtechSend a Private Message to DomtechEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I work in a shop that has an Objet Connex 500, the largest poly-jet printer that you can currently buy.

It is just barely not quite large enough to print a gt tail light in one piece, but its not-yet-available-big-brother the $750,000 Connex 1000 would be able to.
It can print in clear and black plastic together to create the Pontiac text just like the original.
If you were willing to do the hours of polishing to get it as clear as the original, it still would not last.
The cured resin is even weaker than acrylic, and the originals were polycarbonate which is much stronger than that.
Furthermore the clear resin turns yellow when exposed to UV for long periods, and at a much faster rate than the originals de-laminate.
Cost to print would be in the range of $1000 per lens if you own the machine, more like $3000 if paying a 3d printer shop.

It is just not practical until they invent better materials and make the printers much cheaper.
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Riddick85
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Report this Post03-31-2015 04:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Curlrup did mention the possibility of making molds using a 3d printer. If you are able to create a good mold for the taillights you could make them the original way again. Also, if a mold gets lost like what happened to the gm molds, just print a new one
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jscott1
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Report this Post04-01-2015 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Riddick85:

Curlrup did mention the possibility of making molds using a 3d printer. If you are able to create a good mold for the taillights you could make them the original way again. Also, if a mold gets lost like what happened to the gm molds, just print a new one


How would you make a mold using a printer? Scan the lens and then build a structure around it in the computer?
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Domtech
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Report this Post04-01-2015 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DomtechClick Here to Email DomtechSend a Private Message to DomtechEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A 3d printed mold usually has the same limitations as a 3d printed part, it won't last anywhere near as long as a machined mold.
Since a 3d printed mold doesn't need to be clear there are a lot more materials available to use, but they still aren't amazingly long lasting.
It is pretty common to 3d print prototype injection molds, but those molds are almost always just a proof of concept to determine if the design is ready to have a machined mold made.
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