My phone doesn't bring up videos, but let me guess, a video of a small car beating a slightly larger car? Insert imagined video of a train hitting a Fiero. Let me know who wins.
My phone doesn't bring up videos, but let me guess, a video of a small car beating a slightly larger car?
The first video is a 2009 Impala going head on with a 59 Bel Air. I would say the Impala won. The second video is a Honda Civic going head on with a Ford F-150. I would say neither won. Just proving the point of size isn't everything.
As far as this comment...
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Originally posted by RobertGT: Insert imagined video of a train hitting a Fiero. Let me know who wins.
Now you're just being stupid but, I'll entertain you.
He was hit by the train, survived. Sounds like a win to me.
[This message has been edited by Fiero_Fan_88 (edited 12-25-2013).]
All I say is all new cars look the same, an how meny will be on the road in 30 or so year's. The fiero is a tuff an cool car for any time or place in time. Also I like driveing an not seeing my car every where I look.
All I say is all new cars look the same, an how meny will be on the road in 30 or so year's. The fiero is a tuff an cool car for any time or place in time. Also I like driveing an not seeing my car every where I look.
I agree. I put 600 plus miles on mine every week and still enjoy driving it.
PS: As for the snow handling. I guess I've become spoiled with my Z-71 Silverado. 4X4, traction control, ABS, etc.... The Fiero is a bit of a challenge.
Originally posted by jscott1: I would have to disagree with this... there are an infinite number of ways a car can crash. They only test a few of those. The tests they do today are far more severe than the 80s. An 80s car would fail miserably if they tested it to today's standards. You pretty much need to have 10 airbags to pass today's test.
This is not true. The airbag requirement is one from the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, and is simply a requirement for all newly manufactured cars for sale in the US. The NHTSA crash testing has no requirements as such. It is simply a series of testing of how well a car performs in a crash, and protects the drivers. In most modern cars, airbags are simply a necessity now as well, given that the chassis are designed much differently than they were in the 80s. A modern chassis is designed to give and crumple. The ratings and tests the NHTSA perform today, are exactly the same as when the NHTSA started performing crash testing in the 70s.
Of course, none of those tests account for the psychological factor. Most people feel safer with airbags, ABS, and all that jazz, even if they aren't really.
Originally posted by RobertGT: Same with the handling. The weight bias is terrible for handling, and terrible in the snow. And if you're seriously convinced the Fiero handles like a Corvette, you're dillusional. Try Autocross. The Fiero oversteers horribly if you dare close the throttle and brake hard, then pushes all through the corner, and the second you go wide open you lose all control of direction. It's terrifyingly bad.
Explain to me how a car with this weight distribution can effectively control direction in the snow. It's the same reason people put sandbags over truck's rear axles. Traction. The Fiero has very little on the front end, where you want it to steer.
Apparently you don't know how to drive a mid-engined rear wheel drive vehicle, with a 50/50 or near-50/50 weight distribution. The Fiero's weight distribution is 49/51. There is plenty of weight over the front wheels to steer it properly in snow, or in autocross. Plenty of people race their Fieros in autocross. You've just got to learn how to drive it properly if you don't want to spin out and take out a bunch of cones in the process, as you seem to think will happen every time one takes a corner on an autocross course. If you're braking hard enough to force your loss of control when coming out of a turn, then you're driving the car wrong and probably shouldn't be racing it. Brakes are a last resort. You should be using them minimally, not at their limit, where you're going to overheat them and induce fade much quicker than you should.
If you think a sandbag will help you, then throw one in the front compartment on top of the spare tire.
Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Now you're just being stupid but, I'll entertain you.
He was hit by the train, survived. Sounds like a win to me.
I watched the videos. The first one is just irrelevant, there's no arguing newer cars are safer, and the two are roughly the same weight/distribution of weight. The second video proves my point without a doubt. The F150 receives minor damage, the Honda is totalled. I've investigated thousands of accidents, and that is common. Trucks and SUV's rock smaller cars, every time. I recently was involved in the investigation of an accident in Which a Dodge Ram 1500 (A medium sized pickup), hit a Chevrolet Cobalt (A new, safe small car), offset head on to the passenger headlight (Just like the first video, but opposite sides). The driver of the truck was not seat belted, all 3 passengers of the Cobalt were. The Ram was totalled, however received no damage extending to the passenger compartment, and the driver was not seriously injured. All damage was in front of the windshield. The Cobalt was totalled, destroyed completely in fact. There wasn't a single body panel not significantly damaged beyond any chance of repair. In fact I could barely identify the car, and the engine was found under the car. All 3 passengers were killed, and may they rest in peace, it was truly a horrific accident. I'm not going to play the what-if game, but had they been in a Dodge Ram, it would've been the same as the other Ram.
Yes train vs car is an exaggeration, but it is absolutely relevant, and not stupid at all. Just because you survived doesn't mean you won. The driver had severe lacerations to his head, neck, and arm, had to be air-lifted, and his car was totalled. If you've never paid for those treatment bills, they are probably darn close to triple digits (4 digits to his pocket), and his insurance, if he had full coverage, is going to go up and he'll need to pay the deductible. If he lad liability, well sucks for him. The train received minor scratches, and the drivers of it weren't hurt at all. Train 1, car 0. Size is everything. Had that Fiero been the size of a freight train, the accident would've been much different. Now had that Fiero been a Suburban, well it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference, because when you're getting hit by a freight train, there's no car you could be in that would classify a win in my book because the size difference between a FIero and a Suburban is just not enough when getting hit by a train.
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Originally posted by FieroTony: PS: As for the snow handling. I guess I've become spoiled with my Z-71 Silverado. 4X4, traction control, ABS, etc.... The Fiero is a bit of a challenge.
Exactly. My snow cars are a BMW and a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The BMW is decent, but the Grand Cherokee is clearly better.
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Originally posted by dobey: Of course, none of those tests account for the psychological factor. Most people feel safer with airbags, ABS, and all that jazz, even if they aren't really.
You're not saying airbags, ABS, and all of the other safety systems on todays car don't really help are you? I certainly hope not, refer to the first video to see a clear argument they do. The driver's head flies forward, destined for a meeting with the steering wheel, but meets a nice pillow halfway there.
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Originally posted by dobey: Apparently you don't know how to drive a mid-engined rear wheel drive vehicle, with a 50/50 or near-50/50 weight distribution. The Fiero's weight distribution is 49/51. There is plenty of weight over the front wheels to steer it properly in snow, or in autocross. Plenty of people race their Fieros in autocross. You've just got to learn how to drive it properly if you don't want to spin out and take out a bunch of cones in the process, as you seem to think will happen every time one takes a corner on an autocross course. If you're braking hard enough to force your loss of control when coming out of a turn, then you're driving the car wrong and probably shouldn't be racing it. Brakes are a last resort. You should be using them minimally, not at their limit, where you're going to overheat them and induce fade much quicker than you should.
If you think a sandbag will help you, then throw one in the front compartment on top of the spare tire.
I've been driving autocross for 15 years, and a Fiero for 7 of them. I'm not saying I'm an amazing driver, but I am competitive. And there's no driver in the world who will make up for the poor handling. I don't spin every lap of course, in fact I've only spun the car once. But when it just won't turn, there's not much that can be done to improve times from a driver's standpoint. My Fiero, measured on professional scales, has a 41/59 weight destitution at 2916 lbs (I know it's fat for a Fiero). Not sure where your getting your numbers from, but they aren't right. Who said I lose control when braking? And since you've clearly never raced a car, your brakes should never be used minimally, they should be used 100% every time they need to be used, because otherwise you're wasting time. Mine don't fade anymore, but more than 2 laps and they used to. My engine certainly doesn't help the brakes, but they faded with the 2.8 too.
Originally posted by RobertGT: You're not saying airbags, ABS, and all of the other safety systems on todays car don't really help are you? I certainly hope not, refer to the first video to see a clear argument they do. The driver's head flies forward, destined for a meeting with the steering wheel, but meets a nice pillow halfway there.
Go watch a video of an airbag killing a small child. They can help, but they don't necessarily mean the car is significantly safer than a Fiero. As I said multiple times already, and apparently have to repeat, the NHTSA crash test safety standards have not changed in the almost 40 years they've been performing the tests. Five stars is five stars, regardless of what year the car was made, or how many air bags it has.
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Originally posted by RobertGT: I've been driving autocross for 15 years, and a Fiero for 7 of them. I'm not saying I'm an amazing driver, but I am competitive. And there's no driver in the world who will make up for the poor handling. I don't spin every lap of course, in fact I've only spun the car once. But when it just won't turn, there's not much that can be done to improve times from a driver's standpoint. My Fiero, measured on professional scales, has a 41/59 weight destitution at 2916 lbs (I know it's fat for a Fiero). Not sure where your getting your numbers from, but they aren't right. Who said I lose control when braking? And since you've clearly never raced a car, your brakes should never be used minimally, they should be used 100% every time they need to be used, because otherwise you're wasting time. Mine don't fade anymore, but more than 2 laps and they used to. My engine certainly doesn't help the brakes, but they faded with the 2.8 too.
YOU said you lose control when returning to full throttle after heavy braking. YOU are the one complaining about the Fiero's handling and brakes. 41/59 is the exact weight distribution I stated (I don't know why you typed destitution there, it makes no sense at all). I don't know why you are saying my numbers are wrong. The numbers I (and others) stated for weight, are absolutely correct, but they are for completely stock Fieros. You now said you have an engine swap (though not what the engine/trans is). Was your car weighed with you in it? Do you weigh 200+ lbs? Engine/trans swaps and driver weight can certainly alter what the actual weight of a vehicle is. So can aftermarket wheels and tires. A lot of things can. But we were talking about stock Fieros when stating the numbers that were stated. Though, 2916 still isn't terribly heavy.
I don't know what steering issues you're having either, but I've never had any problem maintaining control of any of the Fieros I've ever owned. I've not autocrossed any of them, but I drove the 86 GT I used to have in snow quite often, as I was living in the midwest and then northeast at the time, when I owned it, and I've driven it and my 87 GT plenty of times, very spirited, through twisty country roads. The only time I've ever had the back end start to pull around on me when I didn't want it to, was one time when I was turning left at a light and some idiot started to run the red light in the perpendicular direction, so I had to floor it to avoid getting hit. And there was still no loss of control. Maybe you need to invest in a faster ratio steering rack from an F-body or Corvette to swap in, or see if there's something wrong in your suspension as it is. Or just buy an 88 instead.
