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Rust observations by cmechmann
Started on: 11-04-2013 09:59 PM
Replies: 21 (675 views)
Last post by: RWDPLZ on 11-10-2013 11:46 AM
cmechmann
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Report this Post11-04-2013 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Of course the "Rust Zones" area cars are going to see the worst. Going through a few yards and cars that I have seen otherwise, it seems I have made a few observations. Seems that 88s rust the engine cradles worse. The fast backs rust the upper frame rail worse, Notchies rust the truck, rail, side pan intersection worse. Is it just a coincidence of the cars Iv'e seen or is this norm?
Here they lay more salt than there is snow because here most Baltimorons can't drive in snow. I just don't understand that. When no one else is around, I kind of like driving in it. And yes I'm a born Baltimoron.
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Report this Post11-04-2013 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It depends from what I've seen.... going off what I remember from owning a 2nd gen SHO if there is an area where dirt grime and must can build up in a metal area of the car if not cleaned out can cause a good amount of rust (rocker panels on the SHO) Now between my IMSA and my Mera I've been very lucky BUT, I think that is due to the fact that under the body of the car The panels being a big wider than stock, dirt and grime dose not Easley get trapped in there.. For example My IMSA sat in the middle of a field for a good number of years and it is spotless rust wise.. my Mera has a small amount of truck rust but nothing to write home over.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-05-2013 07:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have also studied where they rust and I have found they all rust in the same places. The only difference is how many winters they have been through. Keep in mind many of these cars may have not seen snow with the first and second owners while others were in the snow from day one.

Under the panels they are all alike and they have no idea what bumpers are on the car or what rear halo is bolted on.

It all comes down to what conditions it has been in and how much of these conditions it has seen.

I was lucky as mine only saw 3 winters when I first bought it and today there is no rust. For some silly reason I had it under coated when it was new. I removed it from the pan a few years back and today I can polish the underside. Doing something dumb paid off in my case.

But the reality is they all are sisters under the skin and they all generally rust in the same spots.

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2.5
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Report this Post11-05-2013 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cmechmann:

Here they lay more salt than there is snow because here most Baltimorons can't drive in snow. I just don't understand that. When no one else is around, I kind of like driving in it. And yes I'm a born Baltimoron.


I am in the same boat. The weather can do what it wants, its all these other guys on the road that make it a mess.
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cmechmann
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Report this Post11-05-2013 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had got somewhat lucky with the ugly 85GT I have. Originally a Tennessee car. But for at least the last 6 years it has been around here. The bottom of the radiator support is spiritual(holy). Two small spots(each side) on the bottom of the upper frame rail, where the corner of the front of the trunk come together with the side. The floor and trunk knock out plates are rusted(surface) but the floor is clear. There is minor rust on the sub frame and engine cradle where moisture had gotten under the paint and blistered the paint up. Scapped off a few areas of the metal on those and it is decent. Not great, but decent.
Had went to a few yards and saw a 84 and a 87 notchie. Both had almost the exact same spots as mine. The 87 looked worse than the 84. Those and mine I inspected with the inner fenders off.
Looking at some fastbacks and they appeared to have rust starting on top of the upper frame rails. An 86, 87 and an 88 the 87 looked the best out of those. The 86 and 87 I inspected with inner fenders off also. The 86's cancer had migrated to the outside of the strut tower to the point I could reach up and grab it out. The 88s space frame looked better but the engine cradle didn't. I had remembered noticing earlier rusting on 88s(compared to earlier cars) when I worked on them way back when but didn't think nothing of it back then.
Now I have never added some type of dye to water and wetted down these cars. But it seems that the notchies and fastbacks channel water different over or into the frame rails.
I am most likely just coming to the wrong conclusion, that the notchies have more of a rain water issue in the back and the fastbacks have more of a sprayed up water issue.
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tebailey
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Report this Post11-05-2013 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here in MI they just rust everywhere. Most cars up here are a pile of brown goo after 8 winters.
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cmechmann
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Report this Post11-05-2013 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another problem here I forgot to mention. Not just the winters and road salt, but since here we are close to The Chesapeake(love that dirty water). We see the effects of people who live closer to it. The same with cars on the Eastern shore. With that we see elderly peoples cars, that are not driven in the rain or snow, kept under car ports that just crumble all over when touched. The paint will hold shape and the metal will fall out. And make a battery look like a Chia pet.

[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 11-05-2013).]

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starlightcoupe
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Report this Post11-05-2013 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for starlightcoupeSend a Private Message to starlightcoupeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My '84 notchie spent 26 winters in southern Colorado either driven on a country road or sitting adjacent to the PO's canteloupe patch. When I first looked at it, I had some good instructions from Mike Gonzalez where to look for rust and I found rust on the battery box and surface rust on the front and rear suspension. That's it.

I drove the car out here to Oregon when we sold our house in CO and drove through a pretty wet 2011 Spring. Two and a half years later, the rust I repaired and POR-15ed is beginning to come through but that is it! After reading all the "Rust Never Sleeps" stories here, I know I am truly lucky.
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Raydar
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Report this Post11-06-2013 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rust? What is "rust"?

------------------
Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

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tebailey
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Report this Post11-06-2013 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mine came from Oregon. No rust anywhere. They use sand instead of salt. After being born and raised in the Michigan rust belt I'm not used to that.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-06-2013 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tebailey:

Mine came from Oregon. No rust anywhere. They use sand instead of salt. After being born and raised in the Michigan rust belt I'm not used to that.


So you have no rust but you also have paint on the nose and pits in the glass LOL!

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tebailey
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Report this Post11-06-2013 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Full rebody, I have a KelmarkGT body sitting on a 84.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post11-07-2013 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Worse rusted cars Ive run across were from the Clev eland area. I know a girl that had a full size chevy that the only thing holding her back axles to the car was simply the weight of the body. She was having handling issues and noises from underneath. I noticed that when you gave it gas or stopped, the wheel moved fwd and backwd in the opening. I raised the back end up and the whole assembly from wheel to wheel fell out of the car.
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1984whitesc
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Report this Post11-08-2013 02:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1984whitescClick Here to visit 1984whitesc's HomePageClick Here to Email 1984whitescSend a Private Message to 1984whitescEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
/\ I had an 89 Buick Century do the same thing. I can't believe the whole back suspension drop out from a big bump.
I got lucky when I bought both of mine. The first I didn't know much about the rust issues with these cars. I have noticed since I have owned my 84 for 7 years the rust issues start under the battery, and at the rear of the upper frame rails where the water runs off. I have also noticed some where the pinch welds are in the strut towers.

------------------

1984 White Fiero Sport Coupe (Juliet) in restoration
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089093.html
1988 Red Fiero Standard Coupe (Bella) in restoration
1990 Black Buick Reatta (Noir)
2002 White Chevy Impala base(Haylie)

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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-08-2013 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We had a BMW here that had the front struts go though the mounts and into the hood. The car went off the road and then pegged a pole.

We had warned the customer about the rust and it was not for long.

Also I had so many Chrysler products where I would try to lift them and the frames would crush under the rack pads. I would see the car settle and then I would lower it and tell the customer Sorry but I am not working under the car with a frame giving way. Too often the top did not look all that bad.
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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post11-08-2013 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Rust? What is "rust"?





Behold, the horror of 30 Michigan winters!



Driving in conditions like this:

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mattwa
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Report this Post11-09-2013 03:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Worse rusted cars Ive run across were from the Clev eland area. I know a girl that had a full size chevy that the only thing holding her back axles to the car was simply the weight of the body. She was having handling issues and noises from underneath. I noticed that when you gave it gas or stopped, the wheel moved fwd and backwd in the opening. I raised the back end up and the whole assembly from wheel to wheel fell out of the car.


Yep, I agree. It is uncommon to see a car on the road that is over 15 years old here, I mostly see new cars. The older cars (like mine) are usually just big piles of rust. Of course technology has gotten better to help slow corrosion, but it still eats though cars up here in no time. Dealerships sell alot of cars here because of that.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-09-2013 08:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I remember in the 60's and 70's GM cars were the best for no rust and often had holes in the bottom of the fenders in about 5 years. Fords and AMC were often rusting in 3 years.

Today with some care here in the rust belt it is easy to go 12-15 years now with no major rust on the body.

What I do find odd is they make the new Exhaust out of stainless and they will last the life of the car generally anymore but they still use steel brake lines that are rusted out at 10-12 years.

I know the exhaust is under the Federal Emission warranty deal so they have made it to last but I would think the brakes would be treated to some kind of rust resistant metal as no matter how good It runs if you can not stop it is worthless.
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cmechmann
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Report this Post11-09-2013 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
DeLoreans were stainless, but were heavy for there size. Old Rover "cars" were made with aluminum bodies. Man they had a hard time keeping paint on them.
International Scouts could be seen with rust starting before they came off the dealer lot. The drive train outlast the truck and recoating was a must for off road. Ziebart made money on them.
Exhaust with cats exhibit sulfuric acid (H2SO4) as vapor when the engine is cold. Diluted form of battery acid. When cars see a lot of short trip driving, the acids would condensate in mufflers and sometimes cats. Corroding them, prematurely. Older diesel exhaust, seemed to last forever. I guess it was the Creosote lining the inside from cold diesels.
Stainless retains it's heat longer than regular steel alloys. The rotors would last longer due to not rusting as bad, but the pads would be toast.
For a short time in the late 70s and early 80s GM was using aluminum drums on mid sized cars. They would not rust, but would warp badly.
Many rotors now are composite. Stamped centers with cast(harder) outer sections welded on. The harder sections are the areas that rust badly but do take a lot of heat. GM trucks are being advertised with special heat/cool treated rotors to deal with heat issues while limiting the size and weight needed to do the job. This is OK until you will need to replace them. The OE parts are going to be expensive and the cheap replacements are going to warp and eat up friction material. Titanium would be a good metal for brake surfaces, but is brittle and very expensive
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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post11-09-2013 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cmechmann:

DeLoreans were stainless, but were heavy for there size.


DeLoreans had epoxy-coated mild steel frames, with VARI fiberglass body tubs, and stainless steel body panels bolted to the tub. The frames have had rust issues. 2700 lbs wasn't that bad either.

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mattman134
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Report this Post11-10-2013 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:


Behold, the horror of 30 Michigan winters!



Driving in conditions like this:



HOLY MARY mother of Jesus Christ

Is that the strut tower and trunk completely separated from the lower frame rail?! That's not good. Might be detrimental to handling characteristics

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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post11-10-2013 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattman134:


HOLY MARY mother of Jesus Christ

Is that the strut tower and trunk completely separated from the lower frame rail?!


Yep



Rebuild here:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121544.html
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