Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  Lets pool resources and find the stuff

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Lets pool resources and find the stuff by mmeyer86gt/gtp
Started on: 07-06-2013 10:38 AM
Replies: 11 (482 views)
Last post by: hyperv6 on 07-07-2013 11:56 AM
mmeyer86gt/gtp
Member
Posts: 3672
From: galt, ca
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score:    (159)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 72
Rate this member

Report this Post07-06-2013 10:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mmeyer86gt/gtpClick Here to Email mmeyer86gt/gtpSend a Private Message to mmeyer86gt/gtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, while at the 30th there were some individuals looking to make a sort of fiero museum for memorabilia that people have collected for all to see. so i did some digging and i remember FOCOA had a museum at one time. i don't really care about a war about people losing money to phil and gloria huff because i lost some money too. So this thread is about trying to find the stuff i do not want to sue these people for money. it will probably take a lot of help from people in AZ and LA to help find it


EXERPT from a 1994 LA time article talking about the museum.

The short-lived Pontiac Fiero (General Motors made only 1984 through 1988 models) did not sell well enough to keep Pontiac officials happy, but it sure seems to have made fans of many of its owners.

Pontiac built 375,000 of the mid-engine, two-seat, wedge-shaped sport coupes before discontinuing production. About 2,000 of the people who bought them are paid-up members of the Fiero Owners Club of America--founded in 1983 by enthusiast Phil Huff and headquartered in Orange County.

Lots of automotive nameplates have fan clubs, but Huff has transformed the Fiero club into a going parts and accessories business as well. Club members' $29 annual dues get them a membership, a quarterly magazines and access to Huff's catalogue of Fiero goodies.

And now they've got a Fiero museum as well.

Expansion of the Santa Ana Freeway has forced the club out of its 3,000-square-foot facility in Orange, and Huff has moved to a 7,000-square-foot building near Anaheim Stadium.

The new headquarters of the Fiero Owners Club, at 2165 S. Dupont Drive, Unit 1, Anaheim, include a 2,000-square-foot museum, a picture gallery with 2,500 square feet of wall space covered with Fiero-related photos and advertising art, club offices and magazine production facilities as well as a 3,500-square-foot warehouse that serves Huff's $200,000-a-year parts business.

For the grand opening April 30, the museum will have six cars on display, including a 1984 Fiero Indianapolis 500 pace car with only seven miles on the odometer, a 1988 top-of-the-line Formula Fiero made especially for Huff and signed on the chassis by 350 workers at the plant, and a Fiero from Colorado that has undergone an engine transplant and now sports the 325-horsepower, supercharged Quad 4 engine that Pontiac would have made available if it had kept building the cars.


So we are looking for a LOT of items couple of cars and lots of pics.. does anyone have any pics from when they went to the museum? I am not saying we need to go to AZ and wake phil up in his sleep and demand the stuff but i would like us as a good minded community use our skills and find it.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
fierocarparts
Member
Posts: 2552
From: Dallas-Fort Worth TEXAS
Registered: Feb 2009


Feedback score:    (66)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-06-2013 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Logistics: Where would said museum be located? Some people seemed upset about the 30th venue not being in Detroit.
IP: Logged
mmeyer86gt/gtp
Member
Posts: 3672
From: galt, ca
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score:    (159)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 72
Rate this member

Report this Post07-06-2013 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mmeyer86gt/gtpClick Here to Email mmeyer86gt/gtpSend a Private Message to mmeyer86gt/gtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i dont know for sure but what i do know is that we need to find the stuff first
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5475
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post07-06-2013 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Last I heard Phil was sitting on the stuff. Also I had heard he sold some of it.

The fact is if he has it yet he will not give it to you and he knows what it is worth.

The fact is getting the stuff from Phil or what ever he has left will not be easy or cheap. Also to start a museum will be expensive and difficult as unless you own the stuff most people will not just hand it over with out some serious security they will get it back. Even GM lost many prototype cars like the Cerv 1 and 2 by donating them to the Collier museum and they refused to give them back to offer them for auction.

Also who is going to pay for the space and how much income do you really think will come in to support it?

The fact is even If you own a Shelby the best museum is one that is privately owned and most of the items are owned by the museum owner. He also has one of the biggest and strongest Shelby clubs too. Yes it is a business and he has made it last because of it unlike many other clubs that struggle and die. He has to make it work if he is to make a living so he has a real vested interest.

The Corvette club has had a lot of help from vendors and even GM so it is a rare case where a club is alive because of support that most cars never see. Also they have 60 years of owner fan base that gives them much more support. There is strength in numbers.

While a noble act I do not see this going anywhere unless you have a lot of money and can accumulate the parts and pieces yourself and foot the bill on your own. There are many cars out there that should have a museum of their own but they also face the same issues.

IP: Logged
mmeyer86gt/gtp
Member
Posts: 3672
From: galt, ca
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score:    (159)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 72
Rate this member

Report this Post07-06-2013 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mmeyer86gt/gtpClick Here to Email mmeyer86gt/gtpSend a Private Message to mmeyer86gt/gtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The thing is, is that many of the items were given to phil from GM as a hold and show peice he doesn't actually own them per say. I understand the logistics of finding a space and storing it and running a museum is costly. but the main thing is that us as a group should want to see these items at some point. the fact that one person is "hording" them is not what GM had intended when they were provided to the fiero museum.
IP: Logged
R Runner
Member
Posts: 3579
From: Bowling Green, KY USA
Registered: Feb 2003


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 98
Rate this member

Report this Post07-07-2013 05:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for R RunnerClick Here to visit R Runner's HomePageClick Here to Email R RunnerSend a Private Message to R RunnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Last I heard Phil was sitting on the stuff. Also I had heard he sold some of it.

The fact is if he has it yet he will not give it to you and he knows what it is worth.

The fact is getting the stuff from Phil or what ever he has left will not be easy or cheap. Also to start a museum will be expensive and difficult as unless you own the stuff most people will not just hand it over with out some serious security they will get it back. Even GM lost many prototype cars like the Cerv 1 and 2 by donating them to the Collier museum and they refused to give them back to offer them for auction.

Also who is going to pay for the space and how much income do you really think will come in to support it?

The fact is even If you own a Shelby the best museum is one that is privately owned and most of the items are owned by the museum owner. He also has one of the biggest and strongest Shelby clubs too. Yes it is a business and he has made it last because of it unlike many other clubs that struggle and die. He has to make it work if he is to make a living so he has a real vested interest.

The Corvette club has had a lot of help from vendors and even GM so it is a rare case where a club is alive because of support that most cars never see. Also they have 60 years of owner fan base that gives them much more support. There is strength in numbers.

While a noble act I do not see this going anywhere unless you have a lot of money and can accumulate the parts and pieces yourself and foot the bill on your own. There are many cars out there that should have a museum of their own but they also face the same issues.


I too was approached at the 30th for Fiero historical items to donate or copy for a museum that an individual in Michigan wants to start. I have no idea of how he intends to fund it, but I really don't care. Matt was asking for information to help locate a large significant group of items. It sounds like so far the people who have read or answered the post do not know. I personally intend to make copies of items I have to help this museum.

Good luck finding this information Matt. I'll let you know if I hear something.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5475
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post07-07-2013 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mmeyer86gt/gtp:

The thing is, is that many of the items were given to phil from GM as a hold and show peice he doesn't actually own them per say. I understand the logistics of finding a space and storing it and running a museum is costly. but the main thing is that us as a group should want to see these items at some point. the fact that one person is "hording" them is not what GM had intended when they were provided to the fiero museum.



Sorry it does not work this way, Possession is 9/10th of the law here. Once GM gave it away it was no longer there's. To be honest much of what they gave him would have been tossed out anyways so at this point to his credit it is still around but to his discredit it is in some storage place.

The reality is GM could care less what happened to it and was generally glad to get rid of the stuff. It is not just Fiero stuff but anything of the older things from most programs. Generally 90% of these things get trashed.

Much of the stuff that is saved from the FIero program that was saved walked out of GM in pockets and brief cases or were pulled from a Dumpster. I know of one of the plastic wheels that they had experimented with was pulled from a Dumpster. One mans trash is another mans treasure.

The reality is here is if Phil still has the items it is his to do as he pleases no matter if we like it or not. If anyone wants it they will have to buy it from him. The only ace we have here is that this stuff has some value so odds are he will not trash so this may save most of it that has not been trashed in the many moves.

I got to look through this stuff and most of it is paper. I saw it when it was still in California but it was still in boxes or on shelves in stacks as he moved often. I agree it is a shame that it is not shared but that is the way it is and GM nor anyone else is going to get to it unless Phil lets go of it.

If GM loaned out prototype cars worth millions and then demanded them back only to lose in court what do you think would happen here?

Like I said noble but just not something that would be easy or cheap to do. It took many years and millions of dollars of support before they could get the Corvette Museum off the ground and able to survive. It is one of few independent museums like this to work.
IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5475
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post07-07-2013 08:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by R Runner:


I too was approached at the 30th for Fiero historical items to donate or copy for a museum that an individual in Michigan wants to start. I have no idea of how he intends to fund it, but I really don't care. Matt was asking for information to help locate a large significant group of items. It sounds like so far the people who have read or answered the post do not know. I personally intend to make copies of items I have to help this museum.

Good luck finding this information Matt. I'll let you know if I hear something.



This is what the Museum will have to work with and for is mostly copies or duplicates of parts and documents people have. But people with parts of value will not just hand them over with no way to secure that they will not lose possession. Yes you can give your word etc. but this is a legal issue that would need to be resolved and that takes money.

But also in making copies things need to be marked or we will have copies of copies of things and the owner of the real items could have the value damaged there too.

What about theft or damage how would that be covered and how much would the insurance on a large collection like this be handled.

If the museum fails how would the items be returned if there is no money to send or ship the items back?

The there is a lot to look at and a lot of money and time that would need to go into this.

My Idea is a Internet web museum might be better. We could have a web site dedicated to the history of the car and people could share documents and photo's on line. Everyone keeps the originals but they would be available to all to see. Same with cars and other parts. I think this would work much better and you would have much less investment and still be able to tell the story of the Fiero from start to finish.

Besides much of what Phil has or had has photo's floating around buy long time Fiero owners who have taken photos of these items many while still at GM. Also GM may be able to offer archive help and offer photos and things they do still have in their records if you have a legitimate web site up and running.

The other issue with a brick and mortar site is how many people do you really think would visit a year vs. the income you would receive. I live near the NFL Football Hall of Fame and while there are some busy days even they sit with few to no visitor's many days. If not for the support of many companies and the NFL they would not be there based just on visitors.

The Fiero while more popular than many 80's models is not going to gain many more fans than we have now. Each year there are going to be less cars and less fans. So if you plan on doing a museum you will have to have someone willing to foot the bills and if you have donated items that may not be a copy you should be interested in how where your items on display will be funded.

The way I see it the legal fees alone on this would be expensive enough to kill it. That is where the web museum may have a good chance to work and to let people see much of what many collectors like myself and others have and still retain possession of the items and not have to hold anyone responsible for them.
IP: Logged
007DOUG
Member
Posts: 1227
From: Wheeling, WV 26003
Registered: Feb 2000


Feedback score:    (54)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 74
Rate this member

Report this Post07-07-2013 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 007DOUGClick Here to Email 007DOUGSend a Private Message to 007DOUGEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:Last I heard Phil was sitting on the stuff. Also I had heard he sold some of it.


If he sold this stuff, bits and pieces would show up on here somewhere. I see two possibilities #1 Hoarder. This stuff is sitting in old tractor trailers in the desert #2 Dumpster. When he didn't pay storage bill (think pre "storage wars" days when your stuff was not auctioned off, just tossed)

 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:...... how many people do you really think would visit a year vs. the income you would receive.


Use the 20th, 25th, and 30th anniversary for example. These major fiero event brought only 300. Imagine the other 360 days of the year at the museum?

If a brick and mortar is to be done, it would have to be done by a real fiero fanatic out of love for the car. Giving 100% and expecting nothing in return.

 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:My Idea is a Internet web museum might be better.


Great idea, we're there now. Just look at the old pics & history on this site. I don't think there's anything we don't know about the fiero from birth to death. Simply add a "museum" link

------------------
3 Indys, 1 is an A/C delete

"Time is the most precious and perishable of my possessions."

Buy IRM, again! at www.fierowarehouse.com

[This message has been edited by 007DOUG (edited 07-07-2013).]

IP: Logged
paced84
Member
Posts: 915
From: Woodhaven,MI 48183 MI USA
Registered: Sep 2004


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-07-2013 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for paced84Click Here to Email paced84Send a Private Message to paced84Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I talked to Phil about a year ago on the Indys. I Wanted to get VINS for the VIN list. Still has not given them to me. Far as I know the two Indys are outside in the hot sun. tried to buy some of his Indy items, but won't sell. Told me the FIERO stuff is lying in the building he started years ago. His only interest is in the Linclon museum.

I plan on talking to him in the near future. Maybe I can get something out of him about FIERO items.

Ron T


------------------

signature by F-I-E-R-O (My Indy on right / #1 IMS)

IP: Logged
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5475
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post07-07-2013 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by paced84:

I talked to Phil about a year ago on the Indys. I Wanted to get VINS for the VIN list. Still has not given them to me. Far as I know the two Indys are outside in the hot sun. tried to buy some of his Indy items, but won't sell. Told me the FIERO stuff is lying in the building he started years ago. His only interest is in the Linclon museum.

I plan on talking to him in the near future. Maybe I can get something out of him about FIERO items.

Ron T



I wish you luck. If anyone could work a deal I feel you are one of the few who could get the dialog going.

I think it will take some time and work to get the items from Phil and some money. He was never one to give things away.

Our best hope is diplomacy and his need for money.

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
hyperv6
Member
Posts: 5475
From: Clinton, OH, USA
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post07-07-2013 11:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 007DOUG:


Use the 20th, 25th, and 30th anniversary for example. These major fiero event brought only 300. Imagine the other 360 days of the year at the museum?

If a brick and mortar is to be done, it would have to be done by a real fiero fanatic out of love for the car. Giving 100% and expecting nothing in return.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hyperv6:My Idea is a Internet web museum might be better.


Great idea, we're there now. Just look at the old pics & history on this site. I don't think there's anything we don't know about the fiero from birth to death. Simply add a "museum" link
[/QUOTE]

The stuff may be stacked up in boxes in a building but Phil knows it's value. To him it may be his retirement plan. He would never let it get away with out seeing something in return.

As for a web museum it would need to be structured as one as while we have much here you have to work at finding each and every thing. We also have many incorrect facts mixed in here too. The web site would need to be like a Museum and tell the tale of the car and walk people through the history. It would need to have someone who can run the site and make it accurate as possible.

A web museum would be more plausible but still would take a lot of work, time and money to organize. This is where we could present things so much easier and accurately than anywhere.

I spent time at a local military aviation museum last week. Even on the small scale they are it is amazing the money it takes to run this and how difficult it is to get items for display. They spend a lot of time fund raising to keep the doors open and to get funds to restore air craft. This is on top of funding they get from a trust and even many corporate donations from the likes of Goodrich, Goodyear and Timken.

IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock