Anybody know how many engineers worked on the Fiero? Sounds like a lot.
You would be amazed at the number of people involved.
Too many think Hulki did it all himself but he had a lot of help and many of the other did many thing that really changed the car.
Like he said it take a lot of man power and time to build and design a car. This is why today it is taking GM time to revamp the lines. They just don't have the man power and the money to do them all at once.
Yes the tooling is more than likely gone if there really was any final tooling done.
You would be amazed at the number of people involved.
Too many think Hulki did it all himself but he had a lot of help and many of the other did many thing that really changed the car.
Like he said it take a lot of man power and time to build and design a car. This is why today it is taking GM time to revamp the lines. They just don't have the man power and the money to do them all at once.
Yes the tooling is more than likely gone if there really was any final tooling done.
I've worked on quite a few Programs at GM over the years, on a "New Program" that doesn't share another Platform, the amount of people involved for Concept Clay to Production would stagger your mind. The expense is HUGE and it takes GM roughly 4 years to complete this process.
In these times, Ford is kicking GM's butt, because Ford has 50% fewer Platforms to revamp/create, than GM has. That results in a tremendous savings for Ford in all elements of the business, and Ford can do it quicker as a result of this. GM is headed this direction, but will take some time.
We will be getting together in the near future. His wife had surgery so our meeting was put on hold. Now that I am unemployed I have more time available to meet with him.
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 07-25-2013).]
Well I reread Gary Witzenburgs book Fiero and Mark was not mentioned as the designer of the interior .
The phrase "designer of interior" could just be a general term, there are an incredible number of people involved in designing the interior. I've worked at GM as a Design Release Engineer for many years, typically you have at least one Designer and Engineer in each of the following areas: IP, Console, Seats, Door Trim, "A" Pillar Trim, Sidewall Rear Pillar Trim, Floor Covering/Acoustics, Audio Systems, HVAC, Lighting, Electrical, Headliner, Windshield, Door Glass, Backlight, Steering, Control Pedals, Drivetrain, Body In White, Door Sheet Metal...etc., etc. There is no one person fully responsible for the Interior Design, other than the Director of Interiors (manages people), who just oversees all the Engineers in areas above.
All the engineers and designers mentioned above are involved from Studio Concept Drawings, Clay Model, to Production Release of all Drawings/Math Data. Technically they are all "designer of the interior" in a loose way. A design is only feasible when the "style" of the part fits within the confines of interior environment space, the only way this can happen, is for all parties to work together as a "Team" to determine requirements for all parts involved in the packaging space available. In addition you have "Manufacturing and Supplier" Support Groups participating in the above activities as required, because if you can't make the part or assemble in vehicle in reasonable manner within cost budget, the design is toast. There are an incredible number of people involved to bring a design from concept to production and many times the design gets restyled as it goes through this development process. That's why some concept cars never make it to Production.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-27-2013).]
Also if you get to know him you may ask if he has any thing left from the program as many times good paperwork and even parts pop up. That is how my 1990 Fiero Emblems were discovered.
I know that Fred and I have met people with lot of documentation too that helps fill in the part of the story GM never told.
Great story! I grew up in Pontiac, on West Beverly right across from where Fiero's were loaded onto the transports. I could stand in my front yard and watch them. My dad worked at Fischer Body before the Fiero moved in. He transferred to Lake Orion to Cadillac. My neighbor who lived across from us stayed at the Fiero plant and became an engineer and worked on the prototype Fiero's. I remember he had driven home the convertible and the 4-seater at various times. Don't know whatever happened to him though. His name was Bond, John Bond.
When you see him or talk to him again, ask if he knew John.
He lent me a book that lists all the employees. John is shown as working in the trim department.
Does it look so good because the roof is (approximately) an inch or two lower? Of course the first production run of Fiero's have a slightly higher roof design? Correct? Inquiring minds want to know.
Cordially, Kevin
I asked him about that and he said the finished product was real close to the prototype.
I need to correct my assumption. He was not a designer but an engineer at the plant. He worked on outside panels and interior. He was also in some of the Fiero commercials.
The two books that were lent to me are The Fiero years, shows all the plant people. & The Fiero Plant which gives a brief description of the car and manufacturing process.
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 09-24-2013).]
A friend and I were talking about the Fiero and its history the other day. (Big surprise, eh?)
He mentioned that he was surprised that nobody involved with the Fiero program has written a book about the car, as viewed from "inside" of Pontiac. (Is that even true? I can't say that I've ever seen one.)
I would really love to see the interior on this thing.
It was in the one Fiero book. Not much there to shock you. It was a more basic version of what we got. This was an early prototype and far from production and far from finished.
interesting subject and lucky meeting, in late 79 early 80 we got a Fiero substructure delivered to our plant in Taxachusettes and put up in the pent house as we were scheduled to get the new mini van for GM. The Lumina I think it was, we even had the van prototype at our plant to show the workers what we had to look forward to building, a plastic body on the steel superstructure.
Anyway the picture posted I have seen that car before, with those same rims, I think that one car was even used in some of the advertisements. First thing that stands out is the TA rims, as far as the angles looking different than what we see today, its an angle photo. Making some things look different than if it had just been a side shot.
I think it has even been posted before, that the car in that photo was used in some of the early advertisements. I don't remember where it was, in tech, chat, or OT. but it was on here sometime in the last couple of years but for the life of me I can't remember the title of the thread.
and no it wasn't this thread.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-11-2016).]
Well ya ! you think with my memory I could remember anything?
that's not the thread though I was talking about. I think it was a much more recent than that one as I read the thread I even posted in the one I was thinking about, and that one is before my time.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-12-2016).]
He worked on outside panels and interior. He was also in some of the Fiero commercials.
Can we still get ahold of this guy?
Questions, he may or may not know about... -Just facts and whatever he considers interesting things would be cool to hear. -Did he ever have to battle with other departments to change something or keep something the same, etc, and what? -Id find stories about overcoming dealing with limited budget, changes that could have been but were not. -Did he work on any of the other cars, prototypes, one offs, rare things. Are there myths he can bust for us? -I wonder if there are any part differences we may not know about, like we know the 84 door panels are different (for example). -It seems like Fiero is kind of what John Delorean's dream project would have been, did he have any relation with the Fiero? -Does he have advice on improvements or mods? If he worked on the outside, how about the ideas of how the air flows in or out of the vents as you drive, etc... Spoiler effectiveness...wind noise... -Did they know back then that the headlight doors pop up at around 100 mph?
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-13-2016).]
Questions, he may or may not know about... -Just facts and whatever he considers interesting things would be cool to hear. -Did he ever have to battle with other departments to change something or keep something the same, etc, and what? -Id find stories about overcoming dealing with limited budget, changes that could have been but were not. -Did he work on any of the other cars, prototypes, one offs, rare things. Are there myths he can bust for us? -I wonder if there are any part differences we may not know about, like we know the 84 door panels are different (for example). -It seems like Fiero is kind of what John Delorean's dream project would have been, did he have any relation with the Fiero? -Does he have advice on improvements or mods? If he worked on the outside, how about the ideas of how the air flows in or out of the vents as you drive, etc... Spoiler effectiveness...wind noise... -Did they know back then that the headlight doors pop up at around 100 mph?
Or a certain '87 GT Pilot Vehicle that was used in the '88 sales brochure?
Questions, he may or may not know about... -Just facts and whatever he considers interesting things would be cool to hear. -Did he ever have to battle with other departments to change something or keep something the same, etc, and what? -Id find stories about overcoming dealing with limited budget, changes that could have been but were not. -Did he work on any of the other cars, prototypes, one offs, rare things. Are there myths he can bust for us? -I wonder if there are any part differences we may not know about, like we know the 84 door panels are different (for example). -It seems like Fiero is kind of what John Delorean's dream project would have been, did he have any relation with the Fiero? -Does he have advice on improvements or mods? If he worked on the outside, how about the ideas of how the air flows in or out of the vents as you drive, etc... Spoiler effectiveness...wind noise... -Did they know back then that the headlight doors pop up at around 100 mph?
Yes I can email him. He lives in Rockford which is just north of Grand Rapids.
-Did GM typically have supplier Engineers in the plant working on design and quality issues?
-How did they handle change management back then? The door skin change from 84 to sometime in early 85 comes to mind as part of the body panel changes.
My .02ยข about the interior. I like it. I like how just simple, it is. I think the pods for the gauges are a cool idea. And in the end I like how they knew it's plastic, I know it's plastic so that's it. Newer cars have all that pompous plastic. That bugs me. Now I hate the grey interior. I had one, I painted it gloss black, and flat black two tone. It looked so much better and 10 years newer. But I do love the tan in my 87 GT. I think someone said it best, I think the Fastbacks and notchbacks both look good. I've owned both. But if you like 80's cars you prefer the notchie, and if you like modern cars you prefer the GT.
Yes I can email him. He lives in Rockford which is just north of Grand Rapids.
steve
Does he know which companies manufactured certain interior parts, like the shifter console or other trim pieces? Sometimes these companies still have the means to make a limited part runs. Either way it would be interesting to know where all these parts were made...
I think it was a much more recent than that one as I read the thread I even posted in the one I was thinking about, and that one is before my time.
