From the general public, our cars get less respect than a ratty worn out Corvette, F-bird, Camaro or M-stang. But the Fastbacks still garner more respect than the notchies. Just like the Yellow Formula I just sold. Could've gotten double if it had been a GT. Completely fixed up our cars get more respect than a clean AMC Pacer at least.
Just an observation. A previous post mentioned how close in price nice Fieros were to C4 Corvettes from the same years. Anyone who has driven an 88 C4 Vette and and an 88 Fiero in the same conditon with the same mileage will tell you the Fiero is the more solid car. C4's turn in to rattle traps over time unless they are constantly attended to. I am not saying the Fiero is as solid as an old 911, but it is considerably tighter than a C4 of the same age. I believe that clean original, or well maintained V6 Fieros will continue to increase in value over time. For a C4 to hold or increase in value it would have to be a garage queen, ZR1, or Grand Sport. Even then, most Corvette enthusiasts would rather have a C3, or C5, over a C4.
I'm thinking any car as old as our Fieros, that sell for more than scrap value are overpriced. The value people are willing to pay for a car of collectible value is the value a buyer places on the hobby of owning (or driving) an interesting automobile. Even if you invested $20,000 in parts into your Fiero, that $20,000 may or may not translate into the true value of your car. For the same reason as if somebody added $10,000 in custom wheels and tires on their Honda Civic. That Honda Civic will not go up in value by $10,000. As stated somewhere else in this thread, the value of your Fiero, should you choose to try and sell it, is the value somebody is willing to pay for it. That is the value somebody is willing to spend on the hobby. Some will get lucky and a buyer willing to spend big bucks on your car may offer a very high price for your car.
Having said that, I have spent lots of money on my Fiero of late just on maintenance. Suspension bushings, engine upkeep, little electrical bits etc. Those are maintenance items that will not translate into raising the value of my car. But I still enjoy owning it, driving it, looking at it and so do a lot of other people. I bought the car brand new, for $12,000 CDN, including taxes and levies. I drove it for 29 years and, realistically, have already gotten my money's worth out of the car. It owes me nothing, even though every now and then, I might sink $1000+ into keeping it looking and running really well. I know that if my car was in an accident and it cost more than $5000 to fix, the insurance company will not write off my Fiero. They will fix it. Is my car worth more than, say, $5000? Personally, I hardly think so, but if somebody offers it to me, I would feel pretty good about it.
[This message has been edited by beken (edited 06-17-2013).]
THANKS GALL757! With your comment, Bloomington Gold being near and the same week as the 30th, Corvette museum near Indy and the fact that I've always enjoyed Corvettes..... I sold a Yellow 88 Formula and bought a yellow 88 Convertible Greenwood Corvette. No 3800SC swap for me. Second owner, 71K miles and it was only slightly more than what I got for a high mileage Formula.
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:
I will think they are overpriced when they are worth more than a comparable Corvette. It's getting close! A low mileage good condition 88 Corvette is about $10K these days, and a harder to find and much more interesting 88GT Fiero is about $8K.....these are listings from dealers who have them all shined up on the floor of their showrooms in Autotrader. I would not buy a Corvette at half the price....but so would just about anyone on PFF I suspect.
[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 08-17-2013).]
I saw my car listed there ( http://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/4035712840.html ) and I've had absolutely no bites other than an offer to trade for a non running ricer. True the car is dirty and I did nothing to vacuum any dirt from it but the car runs like the typical 3800SC should and in my estimation, it is worth 2-Grand. I spent a lot of money on it--close to double my asking price. At least I am in a position that I don't have to sell the car and can afford to store it until I am able to work on it and take care of the few things it needs. I will paint it as well because a good paint job seems to make a car run faster.
I keep hearing this "overpriced" claim, but then there was the 88 GT CJB t-top car that languished in the mall for weeks. Finally sold for $4500. (At least that was the last asking price I saw.) There's a white 88GT, local to me, that been on CL forever, with an asking price of $4K. It's got over 100K on it, and the A/C doesn't work, but it looks like a very nice, solid car, in the pics. (If I had the room for either of these cars, I'd have been tempted.) This, in contrast to the guys who are asking $3K or better for a tired 88 coupe. I just don't get it. Makes no sense.
I was one of the guys who bought a (relatively) high mile car, because I knew I wasn't going to keep it original. My "Formula" now has ~140K on it, but just about everything has been replaced. And I have spares for most everything that hasn't. After all that work, I'd feel comfortable climbing in and driving it anywhere in the country, though. I've got ~$15K in it. Would probably sell it for $10K with all the spare parts, if I could get it. Not even gonna try.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 09-05-2013).]
I bought mine for just under $3k. I've put about $1k-$1.5k into it. I'd like to think that if I sold it right now I could at least make my original purchase price back. My problem was that I was too eager to buy. This car had some issues. But a lower intake gasket, new headlight motors, several relays, replacement headliner, new battery, new thermostat, new EGR line, Tune-up, new interior and exterior lighting, and a replacement of several broken interior parts later...I'd say I got a $3k car.
come to california they are all rust free frames and they are getting crushed daily. problem is is the smog that people have to pass no one wants to spend 600 on a new cat converter if they think the car is only worth 1500 so off to the jyard they go. that is why i just saw a 85 gt with 29k in the yard that was flawless at one time...... what i could do with a mobile transport and a place to store a lot of chasses to ship to the midwest.
On a Facebook page, someone was talking about $4K for high mileage 86 GT. some local folks feel that $4K for a clean GT is good. (And they are getting it).
I have an idea that will get our cars to increase in value...Get some car cable channel to start a reality TV show on a Fiero shop or Fiero Car Club. Any suggestions?
I have an idea that will get our cars to increase in value...Get some car cable channel to start a reality TV show on a Fiero shop or Fiero Car Club. Any suggestions?
Why? Then we won't be able to pick up cheap Fieros.
I have an idea that will get our cars to increase in value...Get some car cable channel to start a reality TV show on a Fiero shop or Fiero Car Club. Any suggestions?
Buy a cable channel from its owner network, and get started. There's no way any reputable cable car-oriented channel is going to spend the money to do it, as it won't make them any money. Nobody wants to see a show about a single car. You'd be lucky enough to get an existing show, to sponsor building a Fiero for one episode.
I have noticed a few more younger folks at shows talking about Fieros and getting in to them. If you see them, talk to them, fuel their excitement. This may raise the value, more young owners demanding them and demanding parts for them.
I have noticed a few more younger folks at shows talking about Fieros and getting in to them. If you see them, talk to them, fuel their excitement. This may raise the value, more young owners demanding them and demanding parts for them.
Ok, here's the plan. Everyone buy a random Fiero and get some kids at auto shows excited over Fieros in general to drive the price up. Sell them when the price is high and saturate the market, thus making money and driving down value. Repeat until either rich or dead.
Ok, here's the plan. Everyone buy a random Fiero and get some kids at auto shows excited over Fieros in general to drive the price up. Sell them when the price is high and saturate the market, thus making money and driving down value. Repeat until either rich or dead.
Actually, that does seem to be the way our market runs. I've seen an increase in demand for clean, stock GTs and 88s. And of course the higher prices during tax return time. August-November is the toughest time because of college/school expenses. They still sell, just not as quickly. Enjoying my C4 and still look forward to getting my LZ9 running in my Finale.
I'm on my 6th Fiero. Never one for more than $1500. All ran fine, no major rust, body damage, etc. From '84 Indy clones, to 87 GT's, etc. Yes, there are more ridiculous prices out there than there used to be, but reasonable prices can still be found.
------------------ '86 Fiero SE 2M6 '01 Ford Focus ZX3 '07 Honda Odyssey '87 Dodge Daytona 2.2L Turbo '96 Yamaha YZF600R
THANKS GALL757! With your comment, Bloomington Gold being near and the same week as the 30th, Corvette museum near Indy and the fact that I've always enjoyed Corvettes..... I sold a Yellow 88 Formula and bought a yellow 88 Convertible Greenwood Corvette. No 3800SC swap for me. Second owner, 71K miles and it was only slightly more than what I got for a high mileage Formula.
I would have kept the Formula
------------------ '86 Fiero SE 2M6 '01 Ford Focus ZX3 '07 Honda Odyssey '87 Dodge Daytona 2.2L Turbo '96 Yamaha YZF600R
I've always enjoyed a convertible car. The Formula was fun but not NEAR the fun of the Vette. Don't hear the remarks about the Vette catching Fire. Parts are easily available. Love the torque of the 350 and there are no modifications to be concerned with. Mainly it is just having a convertible that has standard parts.
quote
Originally posted by deadwood: I would have kept the Formula
I bought an 88 GT with T-tops and 11,485 miles for $7700 about 5 years ago. I bought Hulki's white 88 GT with 5,900 miles for $14,000 about 2 years ago. Big variance in price! You guys hit the point that they are worthy what we want to pay. I paid way more for th ewhite one but I felt that having Hulki's would keep it available to our community with exactly 0% chance of it being modified beyond stock. My current Indy was $5,500 with 46,000 miles and the Mera with 68,000 miles was $10,000. I don't think I overpaid for any of them but all their conditions were pretty immaculate.
I think in time they will go up but only the limited production models, 88 Gt's, indy's Mera's IMSA's etc... and its only going to happen when pretty much no one knows what a fiero is anymore.
Kit cars have something to do with this, Go for a VW kit car, countless millions of them produced, vs a comparatively rare car. Leave the fiero alone. Too many of them destroyed for a kit that will never be completed. Besides, most of them look comical even if completed correctly. Also people parting out cars that can be saved, because they stand to make a buck, stop, just stop. Please. If the car is truly terminal, thank you. My car will be better for it, but if you stand to make a couple of bucks, that you wouldn't have made to sell the car whole. Its kind of sad to destroy a car that was only made for four years. Rare collector car on ebay has some to do with it. That guy just listed a 84 with 300,000 miles on it for 3500, mine must be worth 6000. That said it is localized, in my area GT stick shifts sell or 1500 to 2500 in average condition. 4 bangers @ 1000. There is always the guy who thinks his car is worth 15k, but it never sells.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 03-18-2015).]
I don't see the overpriced thing at all, I bought my 86 V6 Auto Aero Body for 500 bucks a couple years ago, it just needed a solid tube up, and cleaning. I got an 85 2M6 4 speed and drove it home for $500 bucks too! She had a great interior, body was chipped a little, and the cradle was shot so I replaced that. That's all, drove great! Sold it for 1,200. I put a 3800sc into my first car drove it, then took it out, and put it in my 87 GT and now finishing up a turbo swap on it, with all the suspension work, engine work etc... I probably have only 3k into it, and it's about done. Best part is, the whole car, and all the upgrades are paid off by selling all my random fiero parts and parting out my 86!!! Is that sweet or what? How's that for college kid budget!
Yes they are overpriced.. and here is why I say this..
the low miles car, the buyer looking to drive the car isn't the person in the market for a 6000 mile car.. and those that own these low mile cars don't use them, and why they have low miles.. The myth, that a low mile 25y/o+ car is a better car, is just that a myth, for the guy that wants to USE the car and drive it, the low miles car will need tons of work.. at least when you buy a 80-90k mile car you know it might need a few things, but the low mile car needs everything. sure the interior is spotless.
lets see, a 87 clean gt for 5k or a 2007 v8 mustang many buyers also look at resale.. and the pool of buyers for the fiero isn't all that large.. Also, the Fiero's listed for 3500-4500 people in general are going to question that, as it seems to cheap, when your basic pos used car is 3500.oo+ Today there is to many better cars out for the same cash.. not everyone has to have a mid engine 2 seater, and H.P. SELLS.. The Fiero is in the same boat as most 80's cars, the newer stuff does everything better for the same money.. so in that sense they are over priced.. God bless those that can get 7-8k for theirs.. Fieros also have another problem, many have been reworked, much of that is kool and all, but not for a driver, someone whacks that bumper that isn't made anymore and well, you're screwed.. They may not be overpriced for what it is, but when you look at what else is avail. for the same cash.. it becomes clear for those that want a hobby car and not dead set on one model, there is better buys.
Some of you have no idea what over priced is and are just upset that running Fiero's are getting hard to find at scrap prices.
It is all supply and demand. Good cars are not easy to find anymore and many of the higher mileage cars are not worth the investment anymore as they are used up or rusted out.
If one is wanting a stock car the best way to get one is to look for a well maintained low mileage car as they will have interiors that need little to no work with parts that in NOS condition are just not available and if they are they are not cheap.
The fact is if you plan to do a custom car it matters little but for stock the original parts for some areas can cost you as much as a complete clean car in some cases.
The claim of myth about low mileage cars is a little short sighted. Like any car you can have low and high mileage cars that are clean but it just comes down to how they were maintained. If it was parked and crap piled on it for 25 years then you will have some things to deal with from mice to frozen brake calipers but nothing you can not repair. But I know many what I will term lower mileage cars that go out for a few thousand miles a year and are maintained well in heated and even climate control garages. These are the cars that bring the good money usually and the less grief. If you want the most money shop smart and find a car that has lower miles and was maintained properly. Other wise you may end up in restoration cost putting more in than the car is worth.
This is not just a Fiero issue but any car anymore. Unless the car is rare and in high demand often a restoration unless you can do it all yourself can climb to the point you never will recover the cost. Right now if you want an older GTO you are generally better off looking for a car that has been restored than doing it yourself unless it Is a Judge or other odd model that brings ultra high prices.
Buying cars is about buying smart. Also it is about how a car was cared for. My car is of lower miles now but I drive it often in the summer and maintain it well in a heated garage where it receives year round car. I am only one of many that do that and these are the cars you want to find.
I have put low mileage cars back on the road that were parked and I agree they can take more work than some but often it still give you a good base and you just have to evaluate each one before you jump in.
Buying smart not emotionally is the key. Know what you want and need and then be patient as it will come along.
As for prices today even a low mileage 88 GT at $12K-14K is way under value in the collectors market. You can not even come close to buying a decent new car for that and often that is what you are buying. To bring a car back to the same condition often can cost as much or more too. As the Fiero does increase in demand and there are less cars to choose from you will feel the prices of a normal collector car coming in. For better or worse it will happen at some point and it will be on the lower end. We can not continue to see clean cars priced in the area of a rusted out Honda for ever. Time has moved on as will prices.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 03-19-2015).]
Of course a low mileage cared for car is always worth more no matter what car you talk about. One thing to remember though is that even a low mileage car still has 30 year old suspension rubber, springs, etc, etc. I buy my cars to use and have fun with, not to store as an investment, not that there's anything wrong with doing that. I have often seen collector cars bought for a high price at one Barrett Jackson auction only to see them sold a year later at another Barrett Jackson auction for a substantial loss. Every car is different, I have seen "high" mileage cars that were in better running condition and looked better than lower mileage cars. One thing to remember about very low mile cars is that as soon as you start using them they are no longer very low mile cars.
Originally posted by hyperv6: The claim of myth about low mileage cars is a little short sighted. Like any car you can have low and high mileage cars that are clean but it just comes down to how they were maintained. If it was parked and crap piled on it for 25 years then you will have some things to deal with from mice to frozen brake calipers but nothing you can not repair. But I know many what I will term lower mileage cars that go out for a few thousand miles a year and are maintained well in heated and even climate control garages. These are the cars that bring the good money usually and the less grief. If you want the most money shop smart and find a car that has lower miles and was maintained properly. Other wise you may end up in restoration cost putting more in than the car is worth.
The claim, isn't short sighted, not at all.. and here is why.. a low mile care, never is used, seals dry up and get hard, if they start them, they don't run them long enough to burn off all the crap. Valve springs sit compressed, making them very weak, and can shorten their height.. lack of a good long drives to stretching it's legs, causes the combustion by products to gum up the rings, and rings that don't spin eat engines.. same with the lifters if flat tap, and valves.. longer they sit between use= even drier starts as most don't install a pre oiler.. valves that don't spin tend to stick and then get bent springs that sat compressed can cause a dropped valve, rings not spinning is death, lifter not spinning(flat tap)=flay lobe hyd lifter being bleed down and sitting on the pluger kills the internal parts and then fun fun
now move to the trans, the internal seals love it when it sat long enough that the shafts start turning dry, or if stick shift a clutch disc that is stuck to the flywheel, rear end, axle bearings and diff. carrier bearings, dry friction come on baby make it hurt so good..
shocks sitting in one spot letting the oil move away from the shaft seal.. brakes rotors rusting(surface rust) everywhere but where the pads are.. the pads removing that rust and it getting imbedded in the pads, good times.. that's if the lack of use hasn't caused the piston in the clapper to stick and drag.. flat spoted tires from sitting, cause all these cars are up on stands, right!!! belts taking a "set" all rubber parts age if used or not.. most original owners of vehicles are not doing anything but maybe an oil change every year, that's the service it get..
so you buy a low mile car and you have to go through it, and replaces a bunch of parts all at once.. I've bought 2 low mile cars, and my dads had4.. my 86 SS had 8700miles on it when I bought it in 2002 , it was a rust free, clean car but it need all belts, all hoses, all vacuum lines, new valve springs because they had lost40lb and some were shorter than spec, sure you could use them if you drove it like a grandma, but I planned on driving it harder than that.. 4 lifters bleed down to fast.. again might be fine for use that never saw north of 4000rpm.. carb gaskets and float and fuel filter, new fuel rubber line , plugs,wires,cap,rotor,filters, rubber brake hoses, shocks, 4 tires, battery, new fluids front to back, that's before I even got to start to enjoy it.. then the exhaust as it rotted from the inside out, torque converter because the lock up clutch was chattering from the friction material sitting dry for lengths of time, as the fluid drains back into the trans as it sits.. rear seal and pump seal.. My 66 tempest was no different, needing tons all at once,
where a 90k car nothing say very long to take a "set" the battery would have been replaced, the exhaust, the shocks, the belts,hoses, wires,rotor,cap,plugs,
sure it is nice to get a clean interior.. but many have no idea of the cost after you pay the higher price for that low mile car, as you get hit with it all at once.. cause the original owner had no reason to have to service anything, they never use them.. The newer cars, even the fieros with efi.. sensors don't age well. I knew I was going to buy and own the SS forever so getting a rust free one with a clean interior was the trade off ,to knowing I'll be sinking tons of money in parts right off the bat.. ya, I could've just drove it, and waited till a belt took out a hose, or a hose let go at 10pm on a sunday in the middle of nowhere, same with the brake hoses, fluids, Many don't have to do all most none of that, why because they are not going to drive it either.. it'll sit as garage art, to take to a show and have people go wow, only 9000 miles.. who cares it's never enjoyed.. My 85 cutlass had92k when I bought it, and it came with a log book of the service it has had since day one, just as clean as the SS, but it didn't need me to service it right off the bat, as parts were replaced as needed over the years ,it was throw plates on it, and drive it,unlike a low mile car that nothing been changed.. cars with miles on them ,that the owner took care of the vehicle is a better bet as they enjoyed it, and tend to be anal about service/care.. besides, most low mile cars that are 20 years old or more, tend to not get used all that much by the next owner as they are to afraid to put miles on it.. kinda like the guy that builds his car over years, then gets that awesome paint job, and now doesn't take it out much as he/she is to afraid it get a chip or hit, when they used to drive the wheels of it.. I don't know about you but I by my vehicles to drive them not look at them in the garage, they make 1:24ths if you like looking at them. it be nice if parts on cars didn't age but they do if you use them or not..
, most of the time it makes no difference.
