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My first attempt at a 4.9 swap by Mike Gonzalez
Started on: 01-31-2013 07:25 PM
Replies: 38 (1316 views)
Last post by: Mike Gonzalez on 04-15-2014 05:15 PM
Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post01-31-2013 07:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Done plenty of 3800's, but this is my first 4.9 ! Figured I would start a thread and hopefully get some advice, and suggestions if needed.

This is going in a 86GT 4speed, The 92 DeVille 4.9 was owned by the Fiero owners family and only has 80k on it. This is just to be a basic reliable swap, no experimenting with trying to get extra performance.

This first set of pics are from the last couple weeks, this will be a slow thread since Im working while doing this mainly on weekends.

Here is the donor 4.9




Pulled it from the top, seemed to be the easiest route.



Bath time


A little detail work


The Fieros turn



Some parts showed up !


More to come.......
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post01-31-2013 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dont pay attention to the messes in the bacround, I just moved in, and am still working on getting organized !

Got the parts on, LSC Flywheel, Clutchmaster stage 2, 8mm plug wires, and NGK plugs.


Made some fuel lines to get the fuel to the trunk side.


Not sure if you can make out the green fuel lines in these pics.

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 02-01-2013).]

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psychosurfer
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Report this Post01-31-2013 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for psychosurferSend a Private Message to psychosurferEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lookin good so far. Just finished my first 4.9 and there are some things I would have done differently knowing what I know now. I am be NO menas an expert with 4.9s, but am happy to help with any questions. Mine is an auto swap.
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post01-31-2013 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fill me in on what you would have done different and save me from the same fate ! lol
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Report this Post01-31-2013 08:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would like to know as well for I see such a swap in my future.
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Report this Post01-31-2013 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like what you did with the fuel lines. That's some nice bendin'.

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post01-31-2013 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

I like what you did with the fuel lines. That's some nice bendin'.


Thanks ! Amazing what you can do with a $6 Harbor Frieght tubing bender.
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-01-2013 01:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just got notification that my RockAut order was delivered for my tensioner and idler !! Must be in the mail box, I didnt go check it today....Gues I will be working on that this weekend !
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gen2muchwork
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Report this Post02-01-2013 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gen2muchworkClick Here to Email gen2muchworkSend a Private Message to gen2muchworkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

I like what you did with the fuel lines. That's some nice bendin'.

x2

love the blue too.

Just saw the tape on the cel, did you have a chance to check the codes before pulling it?

[This message has been edited by gen2muchwork (edited 02-01-2013).]

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-01-2013 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No, the battery was crushed in the accident. I was going to try and start it, but got in a hurry and got the engine out before I remembered, The owner said it ran great, hopefully the swap will get rid of whatever had the cel on !
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Report this Post02-01-2013 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll be glad to help out anyway I can. I'll keep an eye on this thread and jump in if needed.......
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Report this Post02-01-2013 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking good Mike - I like the blue!
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-01-2013 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Pat ! The owner plans on painting the car a bright blue....He didnt ask, but I went ahead and tried to make it match better. Plus I prefer to work on a clean engine, so if im cleamimg it, why not.
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Report this Post02-01-2013 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

I like what you did with the fuel lines. That's some nice bendin'.


I agree great bending and routing job. I just wonder if the fuel will be excessively heated with this routing. On my 4.9L project I intend to route over the engine and to the back and then down keeping the fuel lines as short as possible.Don't know if this is better or not as I'm going on gut feel.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-01-2013 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks ! Im not worried about the heat too much, I could insullate them to help if need be. In my 3800SC Fiero I have them routed that way and never had a problem....time will tell ! It is something to keep in mind if I have running issues later.
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-02-2013 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got my tensioner bracket made, notched out the trans for the starter, and made the T-stat housing. Will post some pics in a while.

I ran into a issue, i hope someone can direct me to a solution.....I wnt to put the exhaust crossove pipe on and the shift bracket and linkage are right in the way. If I turn the crossove upside down it will go over the bracket, but too close for comfort. Anyone know of a good fix ?

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 02-02-2013).]

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-02-2013 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Low budget belt tensioner bracket....Really wanten to make one on my CNC, but its still not set up, so this is what I ended up with. It will do the job anyway.







And clearanced for the starter


Looks like I didnt get pics of the Tstat housing....tomorrorw !

The only answer PFF search found me for the crossover is to extend it around the bracket. I will have to look at that.
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Report this Post02-02-2013 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea the only option that I know of is to extend the crossover to clear the 4-speed brackets. The other better looking but more labor intensive options is to use two later Deville manifolds and make a Y-pipe under the car and go into a muffler like the stock Fiero exhaust does. Another option that I personally don't like is to route the exhaust like the factory Fiero V6 exhaust with a custom crossover and block off the rear outlet.

BTW, you could have avoided chopping into the 4-speed with the Allante starter as well, but that is a semi-pricey upgrade.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-02-2013).]

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-04-2013 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Matt, I thought about the Allante starter, but figured this way you could use either one if needed anyway. Might only be able to find a Deville one when you need it most !

No new updates, I needed to make a part for the idler pulley on my lathe, so I started setting it up just to find the computer fried. So I tracked down another on and am working on getting it set up again. Its got me confused and frustrated right now though !
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-09-2013 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally got the lathe running enough to run it semi manually so I got the idler pulley mount made.

Sorry for the blurred pics, I think my lens needs cleaned.....



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Report this Post02-09-2013 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for psychosurferSend a Private Message to psychosurferEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking very good! Most of the things I would do differently on mine have more to do with time, patience and money. I ran my fuel with braided stainless and would do them the way you already have. Also, I would have fabricated my strut mount before have the cradle powder coated, would have relocated my battery to the front, mounted a trans cooler (I did an auto obviously) before mounting the cradle in the car, I replaced all the gaskets except from the oil pan (REALLY should have replaced that one as it cannot be replaced with the engien in the car), would have test-fit the ac lines prior to install as the "muffler" in the lines currently touches the ceramic coated manifold (this is being corrected now), and lastly would have measured the passenger side axle before buying. I got one for the 1988 Pontiac 6000 and it is about an inch too short to be ideal for where I mounted the engine. The driver axle from the same car fit perfectly.

Things that I am glad I did right the first time: the tweaks to the 88 frame, powder-coating the suspension and frame (traded for soem music production.. cost me zero but time), ceramic coated exhaust (same as chassis trade), replaced all external gaskets aside from oil pan, finished valave covers to my taste, completed wiring harness (came with a Fiero Factory harness. It looked very good but a LOT of connections had VERY poor connections and had to be redone).

Hope this helps a bit (although it seems you are WAY above my skill level).



-Scott
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Report this Post02-10-2013 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would highly recommend the front mounted battery.
The rear mounting location still requires the battery tray to be cut down by nearly an inch.
My battery was about 1/4 inch from a spinning accessory pulley.
Even with the battery removed, the shortened battery tray was still in the way, if you needed to get to the front of the engine.
Replacing a water pump was a complete horror show.
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Report this Post02-10-2013 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for psychosurferSend a Private Message to psychosurferEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Raydar. Actually, I moved my engine over about one inch and am using a narrrow battery like in teh Model A. The main reason I would move it, and likely will, is to allow space to pretty-up the wire routing.

Do you have any pics of how you did your engine strut by chance?
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-10-2013 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the input ! We talked about moving the battery, not sure the owner is wanting to pay for the cable yet.
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Report this Post02-10-2013 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez:

Thanks for the input ! We talked about moving the battery, not sure the owner is wanting to pay for the cable yet.


I understand. That's exactly why mine stayed in the back.
For a while...

Psychosurfer... I don't have a strut/dogbone. The engine has five mounting points on the cradle.
The two typical tranny mounts. One under the crank pulley, One on the front cradle rail, even with the back of the A/C compressor, and another on the rear cradle rail, even with what used to be the tailshaft of the 4T60E.

You might find some useful pics here. Although they're kind of dark.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/085296.html

The engine doesn't move. You could probably pick up the car by the engine and shake it until all the body panels fell off, and it still wouldn't move.
(I can't take credit for the mounting. Came that way from Ed's.)

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-10-2013).]

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Report this Post02-10-2013 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Even though my 4.9 is an automatic, here is how I did my dogbone for my 4.9. I used an 88 rear suspension link. Idea credited to Fieroguru.



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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-11-2013 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Matt, was looking at your build, what mufflers did you use, and how do they sound ?
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Report this Post02-11-2013 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I used cheap 12" glasspacks, and it is LOUD. Idle is a nice rumble, but when you hit it going down the road, it makes a huge ROAR that fills the whole neighborhood.



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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-11-2013 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL, Thats what I thought, too much noise for me ! I am trying to find something mellow I can fit without breaking budget.
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Report this Post02-11-2013 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for psychosurferSend a Private Message to psychosurferEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mike, I am running a fairly easy and affordable set up that sounds good to me. It has the factory caddy manifolds ceramic coated running into a factory style headpipe then turning into 2.5" pipe going into a single in dual out Flowmaster muffler (think mid-1990s Camaro style) then into a dynomax resonator (had it new left over from another car) and out to C6 Corvette resonator tips.

It is pretty quiet but still has a throaty growl. I did not want a coffee can sound. When you rev it, it sounds a bit more exotic than just a flowmaster IMHO. Think I have around 250ish into everything. We did set it up with a stock Ferrari 360 set up that was given to us but that sounded off, maybe a bit forced.

All that said, we have only done test drives around the neighborhood and shop time (until we get the body mounted in its shiny new paint!).

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-11-2013 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have any pics of your exhaust set up ?
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Report this Post02-11-2013 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for psychosurferSend a Private Message to psychosurferEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im a notoriously bad photo guy! But, I will take a few pics the next time Im able to work on the car (may be one week). Since the body is off, it is super easy to see how it is routed. PM me an email and I will send em to ya.

-Scott
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post02-23-2013 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Started routing wires, and did a test fit to check clearances


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Trenchking51
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Report this Post04-15-2014 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Trenchking51Click Here to Email Trenchking51Send a Private Message to Trenchking51Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you don't mind me asking, I'd like to know how much this swap cost in all including the tranny and what all parts you used. Also how long did the total swap take you and was there a lot to fabricate on your own?
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post04-15-2014 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This was for someone else and the engine came out of his dads car that had been in an accident, and he kept the Fiero 4 speed. We spent about 2k on parts and it took about 4 months. There wasnt a whole lot of fabrication, i built engine mounts and new steel fuel lines to route them to the correct location. Also had to make a bracket to install a belt tensioner for the new belt routing. I never found a good solution I was happy with for the air intake so I left that up to him. Wasnt too bad, but I had only done 3800's up to this point and this was completely different.
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Report this Post04-15-2014 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Trenchking51Click Here to Email Trenchking51Send a Private Message to Trenchking51Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome! Thanks for the info. How much time, effort and green normally gets spent on your 3800 swaps then? Im thinking that may be the best way to go. Thanks again
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post04-15-2014 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
About the same really, although they go a lot faster for me now. But I think they are actually a bit easier, maybe because its what im used to, and I know whats ahead and know to modify things before i put it all together :-)
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Report this Post04-15-2014 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Trenchking51Click Here to Email Trenchking51Send a Private Message to Trenchking51Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's great! So how do you think the 3800 would be for a first timer then like myself? I'm doing an overhaul on the 86 I just bought and hope to have everything done by the end of summer, regarding the engine and transmission anyways.
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Report this Post04-15-2014 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you buy pre-fabbed mounts its pretty easy, the most difficult part is wiring really, but there are instructions all over to help. I have made some wiring spreadshhets that im sure are on this site somewhere. Or you can Email me and I can send a copy if you decide to go that route. I'm always happy to offer advice and answer questions too.
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