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Where did it come from? by Gandalf
Started on: 10-17-2012 05:15 AM
Replies: 16 (485 views)
Last post by: Madscanner on 11-23-2013 05:01 AM
Gandalf
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Report this Post10-17-2012 05:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I need to find out the origins of my 86 GT...

It was registered in the UK in January 1990, and I have a manufactured / first registered date in 1986 from the paperwork I've got from the DVLA, but they don't appear to have any record of a US registration or title.

Can anyone think of any way at all I might be able to get some documentation confirming the date of first registration before the car was imported to the UK? I need to get evidence of the first registration to take the car to Ireland in a couple of years and get a classic registration. Annual road tax there for a 2.8 engined car is around €2000, whereas for a classic it's negligible. Without evidence of the original registration date, I won't be able to get that until 2020 instead of 2016, and the prospect of paying out up to €8000 over 4 years is just horrible for the sake of a piece of paper!

From what I understand reading other people's posts about obtaining titles I've got no hope of getting anything from whichever local DMV it was last registered with given there will have been no change in 22 years, and they will likely have purged any records around the time it was exported.

Would GM be able to tell me what dealership the car was originally sold through, or keep any kind of records that could help me out?
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Report this Post10-17-2012 05:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you tried carfax?
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Gandalf
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Report this Post10-17-2012 06:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
CarFax comes up with 0 records. I know there is PHS to try, which should at least tell me the dealership the car was sold at.

If I have that, is it likely that I'll be able to get any more information? If I know which state it was sold in, is there generally a central point where first registration information is held? I'm afraid I'm a bit in the dark as to how US registrations work.

I managed to get everything the DVLA had for a £5 fee, which gave me the first registration form, and copies of every registration document the car has had in the UK, just no documentation for the original registration
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Fiero84Freak
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Report this Post10-17-2012 06:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What is occurring with your car? What I mean is do you have the original VIN number assigned to the vehicle or was a new VIN applied when the car was exported to Europe (I know this type of thing can occur with vehicles imported to the US)? I think the reason you may not be seeing a CarFax report is because it's been so long since the car was in the US.

The Pontiac Historical Services that you mention indeed they will tell you what dealership the car was sold at (I believe they will go off of the Certificate of Origin information, which is different than a standard issued title), but I don't think they'll tell you whom it was sold to.

There are many privacy issues in regards to going through a state record with vehicles. If you do know what US state the car was issued in, you can likely call up that particular state's DMV (Dept. of Motor Vehicles) and see if they can look up the VIN for you. You may be able to get an individual to at least tell you at what points the car was registered. There's no guarantee however.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post10-17-2012 06:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
PHS will tell you dealer it was originally sold but that is it. Following owners will not be listed.

You would have to do a title search from there and you have a 50/50 chance of following it to you.
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Gandalf
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Report this Post10-17-2012 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't need to know any personal information of a previous owner, just the date of first registration. This is due to Ireland's rules around vehicle registration. Unlike the UK, which bases everything on year of first use, the Republic of Ireland go by the date of first registration for their rules. As a result, to get the 30 year old classic registration number, and cheap road tax (and insurance) I need to get documentation proving that the vehicle was first registered in 1986 (rather than the 1990 I can prove currently) Otherwise, I will need to wait until 2020 to be able to get the classic registration, using the UK registration.

It's funny you mention that there are privacy issues with giving that information, the DVLA are happy to send out info with all the previous owners, and changes of address for a car if it's in your name here!

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Gandalf
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Report this Post10-17-2012 07:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do dealers generally keep records for that length of time, or would it be a case of enquiring with the DMV most local to the dealer?

As I mentioned before, I only need to get evidence of when it was first registered. Who to and at what address is entirely irrelevant (beyond passing interest, at least). Is there any other way to find out who the dealer was without paying $75 to PHS?
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FFIEROFRED
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Report this Post10-17-2012 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FFIEROFREDClick Here to Email FFIEROFREDSend a Private Message to FFIEROFREDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For a wrecker company to sell a impounded car they have to get the information on the titled owner. The police are NOT going to give that info out. But because old title info does not show who the real owner is now, it is not important. Good luck. With the first dealer name you might have a start, but it would be a long shot. And that is if the dealer is still around. No more poncho dealers, remember?
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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post10-17-2012 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Pontiac Historical Services packet I got did list the original dealer it was sold at date of manufacture, date of sale, and the bank it was financed through. No information about registration.

Pontiac dealers were usually Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers, but most probably would not have records going back that far. Even GM themselves purge the database of VIN's older than 10 years or so.
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Gandalf
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Report this Post10-17-2012 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, I hear what you're saying about the 10 year thing, as I understand it, anything newer than that PHS don't have the records for in any case.

Do DMVs keep records of first registrations? Would it always be the DMV most local to the dealer that the car is first registered at? Is that at state level, or locally?

I can't believe that the DVLA don't have a copy of the original registration
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87antuzzi
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Report this Post10-17-2012 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gandalf:

Yeah, I hear what you're saying about the 10 year thing, as I understand it, anything newer than that PHS don't have the records for in any case.

Do DMVs keep records of first registrations? Would it always be the DMV most local to the dealer that the car is first registered at? Is that at state level, or locally?

I can't believe that the DVLA don't have a copy of the original registration


after 10 years its off DMV's books
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hyperv6
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Report this Post10-17-2012 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Note many Pontiac dealers are still around but they are Buick GMC now.

Now if they have kept the records is another story.
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88FieroGT TTops
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Report this Post10-17-2012 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88FieroGT TTopsClick Here to Email 88FieroGT TTopsSend a Private Message to 88FieroGT TTopsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I used to work for the Commonwealth of Virginia DMV (used to)--as of 1998 you could get a copy of the MCO if you provided them with a vin---everything on Microfiche went electronic so they can find it---about privacy issues though now you are talking a different subject--they may not wish to give you a copy if you are not the one listed on it (i didnt work in that dept)--find out what state the dealer was in--best bet it was registered there and write their dmv--they should be able to give you a clear cut yes or no immediately--hope this helps some--OH and by the way---they have the records all the way down to car #1 they very first registered (I know I saw the title)--they have records all that way back

------------------
Pat Jones

[This message has been edited by 88FieroGT TTops (edited 10-17-2012).]

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Gandalf
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Report this Post10-18-2012 04:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Pat, that's just what I wanted to hear!
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jon m
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Report this Post10-18-2012 05:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jon mSend a Private Message to jon mEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi Gandalf,
hope all is good - just to add if there is any privacy issues i.e who the dealer sold it to etc then maybe email a scan of your v5 registration document which has the vin number on just to prove who you say you are to the relevant dept.
hope you get some progress

jon
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Gandalf
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Report this Post10-18-2012 07:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's a good idea, thanks Jon.
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Madscanner
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Report this Post11-23-2013 05:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadscannerSend a Private Message to MadscannerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gandalf

Did you ever get this sorted out?

------------------

'88 Formula
'85 SE 2M6
'93 Eunos Roadster
'00 Fiesta Zetec S (now sold to fund more Fiero work!)

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