I am in the process of gathering parts for a 4.9 swap into an 86 GT but am somewhat torn between a manual or auto. I am going through all my options and costs/time involved with each option. The primary use is for highway driving in and around the mountains of Colorado with the occasional trip to places unknown. I would like to be able to get this finished in a timely fashion, preferably before the end of summer.
Here is what I have to work with: The recipient is an 86 GT with 4 speed manual. The engine is a 92 from a Deville with matching trans. Flywheel for 4.9 applications. I have two 4 cyl SE cars with auto and front end damage/bad engines. Parts supply for this and upcoming projects. 94 Getrag from Beretta with mounts from Fiero application. Shift and select cable from Fiero application, one cable is stuck but may be repairable.
If I go manual, I will need to get the FWD conversion kit from Rodney D., possibly a cable or two. I will also need the cable brackets for the cables. I will also need to get a clutch, undecided which to get at the moment.
If I go auto, I have the other cars for most of the auto related parts but will take time to gather those parts. Will need to buy/make axles to go with the 4t60e trans. Also other various parts that I can' t think of at the moment.
Are there any other items I may be overlooking? Like I said earlier, I would like to have it done before summer is over, and fuel economy is not a primary factor but is good to have. Average speed is 65 with an occasional run at 75 for 100 miles or less.
BTW, either swap is not going to use the caddy computer, so that is already decided upon based on which swap gets the go ahead.
Please keep this civil, I am just asking which would be more cost/time effective.
I've been using a stock four cylinder auto radiator in my SBC powered kit for 16 years without a problem... although it probably gets a little hotter where you live, there's no need to replace it until you get some time behind the wheel and find out if it will work well enough in your climate.
The 4 cyl radiator will only be used with the auto, otherwise I have the V6 radiator that is in the car now. How much of a pain would it be to transfer the lines between cars?
Also, would a SPEC stage 2 clutch be enough for the 4.9? This vehicle is not going to be used for any racing, just spirited driving in the hills and some city. What about a upgraded clutch disk with a stock pressure plate from the 94 Beretta?
Just trying to keep the cost down if I can, but I m not going to cheap it if there is going to be a problem.
[This message has been edited by chetw77cruiser (edited 06-25-2012).]
The 4 cylinder radiator will work, however you are doubling the size of the engine. So I would go with a larger radiator. I prefer a 4 core radiator to help with summer heat. As for a clutch I use the Ram Heavy Duty clutch from the Fiero Store.
What ECM are going to use to run your engine?
------------------ 85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II 88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby) www.fieroking.com
Just as a point of reference, I have 2 4.9 conversions which I drive here in Az. The both have stock radiators with A/C. In the summer the radiator is not up to the job of keeping the engine cool in stop and go, errand type driving when the temp is above 100F. I put a thermostat on the radiator fan to keep the fan running when the engine is shut off on one of them and this helped a lot but did not completely solve the issue. I plan to upgrade to higher performance rads with higher CFM fans on both next year. Hopfully that will solve the problem.
I have a 4.9 5 speed that I drive across the desert from Phoenix to San Diego every week. I originally had a copper radiator with the stock fan. Most of the year, I have never seen the water temp rise above 1/4 reading. I stared seein problems in late May/June Driving up the hills on Interstate 8, the temperature would climb above 220. I put in a 3600 CFM radiator and that helps. I will probably add a champion radiator if it gets too close to overheating again.
Depending on what way I go determines what ecu I use. If I go with the auto, I will most likely use either the 16149396 or the 16197427 setup for port fuel and MAF control.
The way I am leaning at the moment is manual. For this I am going for the stars, because I like to travel the unbeaten path. First I will be using a full megasquirt MS3 with MS3X, sequential injection and coil-near-plug, a different upper intake for the Allante setup to boost the upper end of the rev range, and a few other things for fun. I will be taking this in steps so don't expect to see this running in the near future, hopefully next year with the above listed.
For now I just want to get this on the road so I will most likely go with the 7165 with and modified code I wrote about in another thread. This should be interesting and informative when I have this done.
I would not trust a 4 cyl Fiero radiator for a 4.9L automatic application. The car may not overheat but the radiator doesn't have enough cooling capacity on the transmission oil cooler part.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
It also depends how many "miles" are on said radiator. When I swapped in my 3800/F23 in the previously Duke powered Fiero, the rad had 183K miles on it, and didn't cool very well. After I ruined it (drill bit slipped), I swapped in a nice used V6 rad. No issues since then, and I have been driving it about 50 miles a day for my job.
Edit: Keep in mind this is a manual setup, so an auto with the trans cooler lines going to the rad would be even worse.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-26-2012).]
Thank you for the input everyone. I had come to the same conclusion, therefore I am going to go with the manual installation. Given the time and budgetary concerns for the initial install, and the fact I have most of the parts needed, sans clutch kit and FWD shifter kit, the manual install would be the best. Not having to swap trans cooler lines and other automatic related hardware will make the swap much quicker. Once the engine is installed and running correctly, I will start to mod the engine and document what I did and what worked or not. This is going to be FUN, and I mean that in a good way.
Again, thanks for the input and ideas.
P.S. When I start modifying the engine, I will document what I have done and how I did it, or at least I will try to.
Nope, no 7730 or turbo. This is going to stay NA, at least for the foreseeable future. Initially I am going to use the 1227165 and NVRAM code for control with an Allante intake. After I am happy with that, the fun will begin.
This should give you an idea what I have in store for anyone who is interested.
I know, mainly a specific posting in this thread. Redirects the attention. Also, I learned something new by doing so. Now if I could just remember what I got rid of to make room for that learning experience.
Trans cooling lines are simple. Just buy a small aftermarket cooler and attach the 2 hoses. Even cheaper if you can scour a junkyard and find a car with an external cooler, even one for some power steering units. Ive got an old Volvo power steering cooler I kept in case. Its 2 row, about 18"X6"...more than adequate for normal use. It was free.