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DC Plasma Build Thread - 9 Second Fiero by dcplasma
Started on: 01-15-2012 05:34 PM
Replies: 91 (4474 views)
Last post by: OHNIKO on 12-06-2013 05:06 PM
dcplasma
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Report this Post01-15-2012 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well, I thought I would start a thread on my build as it is rather unique car. (and someday someone else may try to do the same crazy thing)

I documented the entire thing with pictures, that are all over in various locations, I will try to link them all in here if anyone has a specific request for a particular shot.

I was originally going to build a Diablo kit and bought an Oklahoma car that had sat dead in Austin for a long time (17 years?) 88,000 miles Red 2M4 for $1000 on ebay. I finished thrashing the leaky 4 cylinder for about 30 minutes until the heads blew all the way through and the bulk of the radiator fluid got in the oil system. Right after that I spent 8 months in Alberta and watched them racing electric snowmobiles and became convinced that the off the line torque of an electric motor was tremendous. I then saw some electric car drag racing in Vancouver/Portland area and I was hooked. Very easily you can have sub 4 second 0-60 mph times and like my car we do 0-60 in 2.4 seconds with the drag radials.

I decided to build to the National Electric Drag Racing Association classification called MC which is Pro-Modified Street Conversion.
I also occasionally race in SCCA slalom racing courses but they haven't found a category for me yet.

From the beginning we targeted putting the batteries in the trunk do to the nice "water tight" nature of the compartment.

Our target was to beat the White Zombie at 10.25 seconds, and we are getting close.



Here is one of the more recent shots we took with the Norm's Fiberglass front clip in Red Oxide primer.


you can see a video of the build here...


Some of the main modifications:
Replacement of the engine cradle with a Lincoln Mark VIII rear end and suspension.


Removal of the gas tank and substitution of a slightly wider (1" each side) torque tunnel into which we inserted two Netgain Warp9 motors, each capable of sucking 400 battery HP. Fiero was amazing this way in that the large what looks like a transmission tunnel down the middle is the gas tank area (A lot of people are surprised to learn that) worked out perfectly for the motors. Everything is to the rear of the original front "firewall" so we can maintain "mid-engine" status.


Nearly direct coupled, (really a short coupled DANA Spicer 1350 driveshaft) the motors to the differential. Installation of a 1200HP Gear Vendors overdrive so we have two gears (really 1.5).

Installed a five point roll cage.


Firestone Air bag rear suspension
12" Corvette brakes in front by West Coast Fieros thanks Chris West
Two motor controllers, good to supply 425 battery HP to each motor by Cafe Electric
Controller cooling system
LiPo battery pack by Lithium Start 2400A 375V (peak ratings) 6P90S
LiPo Battery Management System by Elithion
KYB shocks all around
Sport Edition CD 16X7.5 wheels 5X100 on the front, 5X108 on the rear
BFG Drag Radials 255/50R16
Eagle GT's 225/60R16 for running around town and the slalom courses

Catchin some rear wheel air...on the slalom course in the Macy's mall parking lot in Hagerstown MD


Catchin some front wheel air at Houston Motorsports Park in Houston


More front wheel air at Royal Purple Raceway in Baytown Texas.


One of my favorite shots index racing in the 7.0 1/8th mile Brandt Nationals at Lonestar Motorsports Park in Sealy TX

Best times so far...
60ft 1.55
1/8 mile 6.55 106mph
1/4 mile 10.43 128mph

[This message has been edited by dcplasma (edited 04-29-2012).]

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jw3
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Report this Post01-15-2012 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jw3Click Here to Email jw3Send a Private Message to jw3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Any pics of the engine compartment now?

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Amida
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Report this Post01-15-2012 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AmidaClick Here to Email AmidaSend a Private Message to AmidaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

very interesting. Can you recommend an EV forum/site where one can learn how to build an EV?

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-15-2012 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well there is really nothing in it other than the IRS suspension and the motor controllers. and unfortunately I have this piece of plexilgass keeping the rubber and smoke from getting up into the controller area. I have some shots during the build showing it before the controller and plastic if you want.


Here is a shot before I added the second controller.




Here is the second controller.

[This message has been edited by dcplasma (edited 01-16-2012).]

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-15-2012 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Amida:

very interesting. Can you recommend an EV forum/site where one can learn how to build an EV?


Well, these two are a couple of the most popular.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/
http://www.evdl.org/

Unfortunately I didn't come by these until well into my build, it is nearly from scratch.

For performance...
National Electric Drag Racing Association
http://www.nedra.com/
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA/

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jw3
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Report this Post01-15-2012 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jw3Click Here to Email jw3Send a Private Message to jw3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I don't understand all that but it looks pretty cool.
I like your car.

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nosrac
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Report this Post01-15-2012 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Approxmately how much $$$ ???

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post01-15-2012 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Man...out of all the Fieros I have bought none of them ever came with a chick in the back....must been a rare option...

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BlackThunderGT
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Report this Post01-15-2012 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlackThunderGTSend a Private Message to BlackThunderGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2 X

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revin
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Report this Post01-15-2012 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'll have to come watch ya run in Ennis some time.

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mattwa
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Report this Post01-16-2012 01:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Wow, that is awesome! Very inspiring, this could very well be the future of drag racing. I too am curious as too how much this cost.

It's also nice you didn't chop up an 88 or some other un-common Fiero model, and just used a plain 84, not many want those and have the biggest production numbers.

Where and how did you mount the rear air bag suspension to the frame?

It just looks "normal" on the outside excluding the front end and decals, that's the neat part.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-16-2012).]

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-16-2012 01:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:
It's also nice you didn't chop up an 88 or some other un-common Fiero model, and just used a plain 84, not many want those and have the biggest production numbers.


yea, I respect the rarity of the model, I can't even come to throwing away any of the parts I had to remove.

 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:
Where and how did you mount the rear air bag suspension to the frame?


If you look at the spot where the normal Fiero engine cradle is mounted in the back, we removed that original bolt and the Ford lower control arm placed the air bag location in spot exactly under the lower "frame" box beam where the original bolt was just about 3 inches to the front. We bolted through that original fabricated box beam (part of the unibody) with two bolts into the top of the airbag bung which comes with two bolts in the right spot.

[This message has been edited by dcplasma (edited 01-16-2012).]

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pontiackid86
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Report this Post01-16-2012 02:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've only seen one other electric fiero and it was a transversely driven design.. the longitudinal design looks to be much more efficient.. bravo..

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Stubby79
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Report this Post01-16-2012 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stubby79Send a Private Message to Stubby79Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:

Approxmately how much $$$ ???


The batteries alone would probably require me to take out another mortgage...

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carbon
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Report this Post01-16-2012 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am sorry, but that is stinkin' awesome.

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-16-2012 01:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Stinkin Awesome is what I was going for.... Thanks.

Try some of my videos on my youtube channel....

http://www.youtube.com/dcplasmaracing/

Right now I have a ride along at 128mph in DC Plasma posted on the featured video on the channel.

[This message has been edited by dcplasma (edited 01-16-2012).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post01-16-2012 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Wow, that airbag rear suspension worked perfectly with the frame! Awesome job!

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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post01-16-2012 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNClick Here to Email PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

HOLY FREAKIN CRAP !!!! :jawdrop: Thats awesome !!!!! Why am i wasting my time with a gasoline pig ??

How far can it go on a charge ?

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mattwa
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Report this Post01-16-2012 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:

HOLY FREAKIN CRAP !!!! :jawdrop: Thats awesome !!!!! Why am i wasting my time with a gasoline pig ??

How far can it go on a charge ?


I'll be more then happy to take your "gasoline pig" off your hands for you.

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fieroguy123
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Report this Post01-16-2012 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguy123Click Here to Email fieroguy123Send a Private Message to fieroguy123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

BRAVO! Very impressive my friend. Very impressive indeed.

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-16-2012 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:
How far can it go on a charge ?


It is a purpose built dragster. I have the smallest battery you can put in for the performance.
I can get two 1/4 runs in without recharging. But that burns about 500HP for nearly 10 seconds each.
OR... I can go to the bar and back about 10 miles round trip. Cold batteries I get less. More batteries would be more range but for drag racing it is just more weight. Like I said the front is completely empty, I could fill it up with batteries and get another 50 miles if I wanted to.

A fellow in my Pro-Modified Class, Shawn Lawless, just passed me up by running 9.8 in a 3500lb S10 pickup truck (powered by LiPos) yesterday in Florida. I am so pissed, I am going to have to go out and beat that now.

[This message has been edited by dcplasma (edited 01-16-2012).]

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dratts
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Report this Post01-16-2012 05:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I was going to post a thread polling opinions on who hits the 9s first, gas or electric. I'm now leaning towards electrics and I was probably leaning towards gas before your car.

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-19-2012 04:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
Man...out of all the Fieros I have bought none of them ever came with a chick in the back....must been a rare option...


I was laughing so hard that day.... She is the son I never had...


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Report this Post01-19-2012 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Now that's my kind of girl!

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post01-19-2012 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:

HOLY FREAKIN CRAP !!!! :jawdrop: Thats awesome !!!!! Why am i wasting my time with a gasoline pig ??

How far can it go on a charge ?


Its your own damn fault you are using gas.

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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post01-21-2012 07:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

With the kind of amperage you are running, are those cables, relays and connectors handling it well? It looks like mostly 400 amp hardware.

On the plus side and a generality with electrical components, if the conductors can be kept cool, they can handle HUGE currents without any damage. A TIG welder has an 1/8" cable feeding the torch and can easily handle 300 amps, while it needs a honking huge 3/4" grounding cable to do the same, because the 1/8" electric torch cable is also a 1/4" water hose.

Love what you've done so far! One for giving the Fiero a good reputation with the Drag racing crowd, two for doing it with an unconventional setup.

I'll probably stick a jet engine on one at some point. Just 'cause I can. It isn't like I don't have one just laying around :-P

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-28-2012 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:
With the kind of amperage you are running, are those cables, relays and connectors handling it well? It looks like mostly 400 amp hardware.


Most of the "hardware" is 600amp continuous. The contactors are Gigavac GX-16's 600amps. The controllers are 600amp continuous. The cables are 3/0 from contactors to the motors, parallel 2/0 from the battery to the contactors(recently). The lugs are probably the weak spot at 400amp. The fuses are 800 amp solid state.

You are right, we only pull the high 2000 amp levels for a short period of time. We start out at 2000 amps to each motor (4000 total) and the horsepower climbs as the car accelerates. Around 60MPH (2.4seconds) we are making 800 battery HP and then it falls off after that to about 500.



 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:
Love what you've done so far! One for giving the Fiero a good reputation with the Drag racing crowd, two for doing it with an unconventional setup.



Thanks.

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Report this Post01-28-2012 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeppelin513Click Here to Email LZeppelin513Send a Private Message to LZeppelin513Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That is fricking sweet. I had a good time watching a couple of your youtube vids. Very impressive.

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-29-2012 05:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by LZeppelin513:
That is fricking sweet. I had a good time watching a couple of your youtube vids. Very impressive.


Thanks, coming from a guy whose userid is LZeppelin, that means a lot. My favorite band.

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Report this Post01-29-2012 06:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by dcplasma:


It is a purpose built dragster. I have the smallest battery you can put in for the performance.
I can get two 1/4 runs in without recharging. But that burns about 500HP for nearly 10 seconds each.
OR... I can go to the bar and back about 10 miles round trip. Cold batteries I get less. More batteries would be more range but for drag racing it is just more weight. Like I said the front is completely empty, I could fill it up with batteries and get another 50 miles if I wanted to.

A fellow in my Pro-Modified Class, Shawn Lawless, just passed me up by running 9.8 in a 3500lb S10 pickup truck (powered by LiPos) yesterday in Florida. I am so pissed, I am going to have to go out and beat that now.



You should build a trailer with a bunch of batteries, then when you want to go farther just hook it up
Build 2 of them and one can be charging while you are using the other.

Nice build

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post01-29-2012 10:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I wondered why you could claim that 800hp... Now I know as it is just a peak number. The trap speed you have is really similar to my 500hp numbers, and I am almost 1000lbs heavier than you guys.

What does it take to push out 800 all the way down the track?

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Sigler85GT
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Report this Post01-29-2012 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Sigler85GTClick Here to Email Sigler85GTSend a Private Message to Sigler85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am very impressed with this build DC. its nice to hear(read) the word motor and it really means a motor. I hope to catch this car some time if its out around houston tracks again. again awesome work.

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weaselbeak
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Report this Post01-29-2012 10:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for weaselbeakClick Here to Email weaselbeakSend a Private Message to weaselbeakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

How did you get to be a 1000 lbs heavier?

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dcplasma
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Report this Post01-29-2012 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcplasmaClick Here to visit dcplasma's HomePageClick Here to Email dcplasmaSend a Private Message to dcplasmaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
What does it take to push out 800 all the way down the track?


Good question. Well, gearing would be nice. I originally ran a "one speed". When I added the Gear Vendors Overdrive (gear splitter now 1.5 speeds), that was a huge increase in the power band. My older runs would see a fall off to about 200 battery Horsepower at 4800rpm and 115mph. Now we cross the line at 128mph and 4100rpm and 500 battery HP.
To stay at 800 we would need a second GV "multi" unit for three speeds. and then some more batteries to keep the voltage up a little farther.

We haven't run a dyno yet but this chart simulates what the controller output would do as far as rpm. (my lines are the upper pair labeled "Warp9", the other two are for another car in my organization called the White Zombie) This chart was done when I used to run a max motor voltage of 170V. I now run 199V due to some better brushes so the power curves would all be shifted up and to the right.

[This message has been edited by dcplasma (edited 01-29-2012).]

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post01-29-2012 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by weaselbeak:

How did you get to be a 1000 lbs heavier?


There are big heavy chunks of steel and aluminum behind my seat. From what I see here the electrical bits are quite weight efficient for what they are doing. I also have to carry fuel, turbos, intercooler, coolant, oil, battery, trans fluid, loads of wiring, etc...

I also have a completely stock 88 coupe left every where else. The DC plasma has a nice custom front end assembly that allows for 100's of lbs of weight reduction

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mattwa
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Report this Post01-29-2012 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

1500ft-lbs of torque until 3000 RPM...wow. I agree with others, what am I doing messing with these old technology gas motors. Lol.

The uses for an electric motor system in a car is incredible. If we came up with a better way to store electrical energy (battery) for a more reasonable cost, that would an awesome and efficient daily driver. I know this was purpose built for the drag strip, but still. 1500ft-lbs is crazy, you could tow a semi-truck with something like that.

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Report this Post01-29-2012 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for weaselbeakClick Here to Email weaselbeakSend a Private Message to weaselbeakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


There are big heavy chunks of steel and aluminum behind my seat. From what I see here the electrical bits are quite weight efficient for what they are doing. I also have to carry fuel, turbos, intercooler, coolant, oil, battery, trans fluid, loads of wiring, etc...

I also have a completely stock 88 coupe left every where else. The DC plasma has a nice custom front end assembly that allows for 100's of lbs of weight reduction


This makes no sense. You shed weight to go faster, not add weight. You can convince yourself that there is some weight bias explanation, but I'll pass.

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dcplasma
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quote
Originally posted by mattwa:
but still. 1500ft-lbs is crazy, you could tow a semi-truck with something like that.


actually its only 1500 because of a couple things. I only have a 2000 amp motor controller (they make up to 3000 amp controllers now. YES, it would be 2200+ft lbs before any transmission gears. Of course, this would only be to 2000rpm but egawd right?

I run this through a Ford 3.08 rear end and 1500 times 3.08 is 4500+ftlbs torque on the axles. I put a full spool in there to make sure I was splitting this torque between the two CV joints. I have already broken one.

My next incarnation of this would be a beefier rear end, perhaps a Ford 9" made by one of the aftermarket companies. A Lenco transmission say 1.24 ratio, a reverser one GV aux OD units and then one multi GV OD unit and then the same 3.08 rear end. That would be about 3.8, 3.08, 2.4 and 1.9 ratios. Oh and try to lighten the car some more.

In my case, the battery is the power limit and one lb of battery weight is Five battery HP so more of THAT kind of weight is good.
http://evalbum.com/2453

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engine man
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quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:


You should build a trailer with a bunch of batteries, then when you want to go farther just hook it up
Build 2 of them and one can be charging while you are using the other.

Nice build


instead of batteries it should be a small diesel generator then he can go as far as he wants just make it big enough to have enough power to do like 80 so at 70 you will be charging

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 01-29-2012).]

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Chris Hodson
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Annnddd... make it run off waste cooking oil

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