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New engine swap, 4.9 V8 to a 2.0 4 cylinder by FieroMaster88
Started on: 07-08-2011 07:02 PM
Replies: 337 (17767 views)
Last post by: FieroMaster88 on 06-16-2020 11:02 PM
FieroMaster88
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Report this Post08-04-2013 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And an updated engine shot. Notice the air filter is no longer by the battery.
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BV MotorSports
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Report this Post08-04-2013 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMaster88:


Thanks!
I still want to add a resivoirs tank to the W2A system. Trying to find one small enough to mount by the heat exchanger. Thinking I might try one from a BMW. They use a smaller one on the twin turbo v8 cars.


I think the one I got was from a GM FWD car. 2004 (ish). I forgot to get the plug that goes to the sensor on the bottom of the tank. I am going to wire it into the TEMP light on the dash. That way if the W2A system gets a leak, it will trigger the light.
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Report this Post08-09-2013 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Suddenly I have a 3000 rpm idle. The idle valve broke itself trying to adjust the idle down. Turns out the second throttle body is hanging open. The coupler between the two throttles is coming apart. I've had enough of this dual throttle setup. Ordered an intake manifold gasket and I'm going to install the stock intake manifold I have. I'm going to modify a Fiero throttle to work, it's a lot bigger than the factory sunbird throttle. Who knows, maybe ill have better performance with only one throttle how the engine was designed.

Link to installing the Fiero throttle:
http://lt3engine.i8.com/inf...erothrottlebody.html

[This message has been edited by FieroMaster88 (edited 08-09-2013).]

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Report this Post08-10-2013 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMaster88:

Suddenly I have a 3000 rpm idle. The idle valve broke itself trying to adjust the idle down. Turns out the second throttle body is hanging open. The coupler between the two throttles is coming apart. I've had enough of this dual throttle setup. Ordered an intake manifold gasket and I'm going to install the stock intake manifold I have. I'm going to modify a Fiero throttle to work, it's a lot bigger than the factory sunbird throttle. Who knows, maybe ill have better performance with only one throttle how the engine was designed.

Link to installing the Fiero throttle:
http://lt3engine.i8.com/inf...erothrottlebody.html



I have a few spare 2.8 TB and a 98 3800 (L67) TB if you want to try it. You can have the 2.8 ones if you are interested.

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Report this Post08-10-2013 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks but I already purchased one. Hopefully I'll get my intake manifold gasket this week so I can get the stock stuff swapped back on. Got my decal today and installed it.
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Report this Post08-11-2013 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sticker looks good.
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Report this Post08-11-2013 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks!
Hopefully my intake manifold gasket shows up tomorrow. If it does ill get the intake swapped over on Tuesday. I'm taking the stock manifold to work to clean it up tomorrow.
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Report this Post08-13-2013 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Swapped over the intake today. Changed the turbo oil return so its not running uphill and got the engine idling at 900-1000 rpm. Oh, and changed the oil. It almost feels a little faster with the single throttle.

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Report this Post08-14-2013 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also noticed no more blue smoke at extended idle and the car doesn't smell like oil after a drive.
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Report this Post08-18-2013 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got the Fiero throttle to modify yesterday. Have to order some silicone couplers so I can change the charge pipe routing then ill modify and install the Fiero throttle.
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Report this Post08-20-2013 12:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lookin good
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Report this Post08-20-2013 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Amazing how much better it will run when its working correctly! Is the Fiero TB the original TB for the Sunbird engine or would it be an upgrade? And if it is, I guess what ever TB upgrade works for the Fiero, I guess would work for you?


Oh yeah, I think it looks cleaner with 1 TB as well. So good on ya.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 08-20-2013).]

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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post08-20-2013 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Fiero throttle is an upgrade for the sunbird engine. It's way bigger. Ill take pictures of the two side by side when I swap them over.
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Report this Post08-25-2013 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thinking I might have time to modify the Fiero throttle this week. This weekend was so busy I didn't get to do anything to the car. I have to work this coming Saturday and am going to try to find time to align the car. Anyone have any good alignment specs for handeling. I'm not concerned with tire wear.
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Report this Post08-26-2013 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMaster88:

Thinking I might have time to modify the Fiero throttle this week. This weekend was so busy I didn't get to do anything to the car. I have to work this coming Saturday and am going to try to find time to align the car. Anyone have any good alignment specs for handeling. I'm not concerned with tire wear.


Just for reference:

ALL FIRED UP!

The following article is an excerpt from a 1991 Kit Car magazine article from Herb Adams VSE. I have only included the suspension information.
Herb Adams was a GM engineer who went on to produce some of the best handling "massaged" Pontiacs of the 1970s to 1990s.

FROM THE GROUND UP

Making a standard production car handle well on the racetrack often requires a variety of modifications. Each change is aimed at correcting one or
more problem areas. You should start from the ground up by selecting the right tire sizes.

The basic handling problems any rear- or mid-engine car is that the center of gravity is behind the traction center of the tires. Rear-engine race cars
compensate for this by using larger tires on the back and smaller tires on the front. This moves the traction center to the rear so it is on, or behind, the
center of gravity. You can use larger rear tires on your Fiero for the same benefit. The stock rear fenders have room for Goodyear ZRS 255/50x16 tires
on 16x9 wheels, although 225/50x16 tires on 16x8 wheels will also provide improvement.

The basic stability of your mid-engine Fiero can also be improved by moving the center of gravity forward. The easiest way to do this is to move the
battery from the rear to the forward luggage compartment, or fit it ahead of the right front wheel well. The latter location requires more work, but it does
preserve some of the limited storage space.


BEEF UP YOUR BUSHINGS

The rear control arms on a stock Fiero are mounted the the frame with rubber bushings. They allow the rear arms to move forward under power and
rearward under braking, and the effect on handling is a change in steering direction whenever the throttle or the brakes are applied.
The other problem with the earlier Fiero rear control arm bushings is that they deflect inward during cornering, which changes the rear wheel camber angle.
Both of these handling problems can be corrected by replacing the stock rubber control arm bushings with steel bushings.

Steel bushings are required for this application because of extreme loads resulting from driving and cornering forces. I have found that the only bushings
that hold up are aircraft-quality hardened steel on hardened steel mono-balls. Steel sleeves must be welded to the control arms to secure the mono-balls
in place. This operation requires that the rear arms be removed from the car. The installation takes time and money, but is well worth the results. Changing
the rear control arm bushings is the most significant change that can be made to improve your Fiero's handling. *

When the rubber is removed from the rear control arm bushings, there is potential for more ride harshness and road noise. This is usually not a problem
because the rear sub-frame is still mounted to the body with rubber mounts.

If you want ultimate handling on the racetrack and you're not concerned about noise, you can replace the rubber sub-frame mounts with steel or aluminum to
keep the sub-frame from moving in relation to the body. The handling improvements gained by this modification are less than when the control arm rubber
is removed, but it does provide some advantage on the racetrack.

The front control arm bushings are also mounted in rubber so they deflect when cornering loads are applied. If these bushings are replaced with steel and
nylon bushings, there is a noticeable improvement in front-end cornering power. Since the weak link in the Fiero handling is not the front suspension, and
because there is less weight on the front end, changing the front control arm bushings is not recommended unless race ready handling is desired. The arm
must be removed from the car to replace the bushings.


NEUTRALIZING UNDERSTEER

Besides the rear control arm bushings, adding and/or changing the stabilizer bars are the most significant handling improvements you can make on your Fiero.
Due to the Fiero's inherent tendency to spin-out at the limits of its cornering power, Pontiac engineers tuned the cars handling characteristics to provide an
excessive amount of understeer. This trait ensures safe handling for the majority of drivers, but does not permit fast cornering. The stock Fiero uses a front
stabilizer bar and no rear stabilizer bar to create the desired understeer. If your Fiero has steel rear control arm bushings, its rear suspension is capable of
absorbing more cornering force, so some amount of rear stabilizer can be used. I have found that by increasing the effectiveness of the front stabilizer bar,
we can use a large rear stabilizer bar. By matching the size of the front and rear bars, it is possible to make a Fiero handle with neutral steer instead of
excessive understeer. Neutral steer provides the maximum cornering speed because all the tires work at the same level. Large front and rear stabilizer bars
limit the body roll angle and positive camber, which keeps the tires from losing cornering power

The use of large front and rear stabilizer bars doesn't have any significant effect on ride quality or road noise. The addition of the front and rear bars will also
make a significant improvement in steering response and precision. The 1.25 inch diameter rear bar recommended by my company,
(Herb Adams VSE, Dept. KC,23865 Fairfield Place, Carmel, CA 93923 408/649-8423) is tuned to be used in conjunction with a one inch front stabilizer bar.
Do not use a rear bar without the front; doing so will result in oversteer, which can be dangerous.

Using a larger front bar improves the steering precision, allowing removal of the stock steering dampener. The Fiero dampener reduces steering wheel kickback
and vibration, but with a more effective front stabilizer bar, these problems are minimized so it is no longer needed. Removing the steering dampener also allows
the steering wheel to turn faster for improved handling and overall control.


SPRINGS, SHOCKS AND OTHER STUFF

Spring rates on stock Fieros are correct for most purposes, but the problem is that most of these cars are too high off the ground. The best way to lower either
the front or the rear is to cut the existing springs. By cutting half a coil off a spring and reforming the ends, you can lower your Fiero about one inch. Lowering the
car reduces the available ride travel, but for most driving conditions, there is no loss of ride quality. With Koni adjustable shocks and struts, you can tune the ride
quality in relation to to improved handling.

The brakes on an '88 Fiero are extremely good even on the racetrack. Unfortunately, it's not an easy conversion to mount the '88 brakes onto an '84-'87 Fiero.
This means you will have to suffer with the barely effective brakes now on your car. I have tried many things to improve the stock brakes, but there doesn't seem
to be an easy solution. Semi-metallic pads offer some advantage for a limited fix. **

As for chassis reinforcements, the basic Fiero structure is heavy and pretty stiff. I didn't notice any structural improvement after installing a rollcage for racing
purposes, so I don't recommend this modification for street use.


GETTING A LINE ON ALIGNMENT

The camber adjustment on the front of a Fiero is accomplished by rotating the upper ball joints from front to the back. The ball joint is offset between the mounting
bolts so you have your choice of two positions. For the best handling, you want the position that gives the most negative camber. Usually this isn't much, so you'll
need to move the holes to get more. I don't recommend more then one degree of negative camber for street use.

For more caster, move the spacers between the upper control arm and the frame bracket, positioning the upper arm as far back in the car as possible. You only
need one degree of positive caster to have good handling and you can usually obtain this by moving the spacers on the Fiero.

As for toe-in, it should be 1/16-inch at the front to provide good control and stability under braking. Rear toe-in is set by turning the rear tie rods. It's important to
have between 1/16-inch and 1/8-inch toe-in at each rear wheel. Measure each rear wheel in relation to the rocker panels when determining rear toe-in. If you
measure one wheel versus the other, you can end up with the proper toe-in, but the car will probably dog-track.

For setting rear camber, move the shock strut slotted hole where it connects to the rear upright. For street driving, you want at least one degree of negative
camber; for racing, you need about two degrees.

NOTE: Many of the recommendations given above can be applied to any street driven Fiero, they are, however, somewhat severe for daily driving. Polyurethane
instead of steel bushings would be more streetable although poly bushings can cause binding and lots of squeaks and groans from the suspension, and
the 84-87 brakes can be converted to vented GA type parts. (This article did date from 1991) Remember, Herb Adams is a master of chassis engineering and
following his lead will produce a far better handling Fiero, but possibly one which is less forgiving. You decide how far you want to go.
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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post08-31-2013 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I had zero time at work to align the car today. I did replace the broken handle on the oil dip stick tho.
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Report this Post09-01-2013 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mmeyer86gt/gtpSend a Private Message to mmeyer86gt/gtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
just found a 2.0 turbo at the jyard out of a grand am might be there in another week let me know if you need some parts.
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Report this Post09-02-2013 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cleaned it today:


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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post09-02-2013 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

FieroMaster88

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Member since Nov 2000
Finally got around to installing these logo projectors today. Figured they would work good for floor dome lights. They come on when the dome light is on.

[This message has been edited by FieroMaster88 (edited 09-02-2013).]

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Report this Post11-16-2013 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I ordered some exhaust heat wrap and a turbo blanket. Hopefully it helps keep engine compartment temps down. I really miss driving my car.
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Report this Post12-05-2013 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post12-25-2013 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got the car up on jack stands so I can replace the fuel pump when I get time. I also plan on installing the turbo blanket and wraping the exhaust while I'm under it.

[This message has been edited by FieroMaster88 (edited 12-25-2013).]

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Report this Post02-07-2014 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got new dew wipes for the car. Also started to wrap the exhaust. It's been too cold to work on it for more than 10 minutes lately.
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Report this Post03-23-2014 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like I will have a couple evenings this week to work on the car. Going to replace the fuel pump, fix the oil leak and install the dew wipes.
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Report this Post04-03-2014 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fuel pump replaced:


Dew wipes installed:



Also got the oil leak fixed.

[This message has been edited by FieroMaster88 (edited 04-03-2014).]

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Report this Post04-03-2014 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dew wipes look good. How'd the install go?
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Report this Post04-04-2014 06:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can't wait to see the dyno numbers...but the backwards turbo is annoying.

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 04-04-2014).]

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Report this Post04-04-2014 08:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by seajai:

Dew wipes look good. How'd the install go?


Install was easy but it wasn't my first time. Put a set on my Indy last year. These were really well built. Thank you again!
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Report this Post04-15-2014 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for colowillSend a Private Message to colowillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I was reading some of your stuff I just came aacross an opportunity to get a 2.0 turbo lt3 motor mated to a th125 already mounted to a fiero subframe and that jazz. The engine is all there the only thing it needs is the wiring set up in it. I have an 87 gt automatic I'm planning on running it in. What are the goodies I need above and beyond the engine tranny subframe/mounts and wiring harness? And also when it comes to the wiring harness whats the best way to go with deleting unwanted aspects and splicing it to a fiero. I do have access to alldata. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated and a blessing as this will be my first fiero swap beyond my two 3.1 stroker motors I have in my 86 and 87 gt. Also the 2.0 motor is from a 1989 grand am.
Thank you,
Will
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Report this Post04-15-2014 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The wiring is no different than any other engine swap. You will need the diagram for the 2.0 turbo engine and for the Fiero c500 and c203 connectors. Ryan at www.gmtuners.com can burn you a chip with settings you want and remove things you don't want.
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Report this Post04-15-2014 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for colowillSend a Private Message to colowillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome ill be sure to take a lot of pictures and make a build thread . This engine swap looks so fantastic just not a lot of documentation on many of them
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Report this Post04-15-2014 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for colowillSend a Private Message to colowillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

colowill

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Also random stupid question but I will be using the ecm from the grand am correct?
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Report this Post04-15-2014 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, that's correct.
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Report this Post04-16-2014 12:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for colowillSend a Private Message to colowillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was looking into more things today I know youre running a manual so it wont be identical but how did cv shafts work out for you. I know the spline count hex nut size and axle nut thread are all the same just unsure on if I can get the right length axles. Thanks for all of your help with this

I also forgot to ask if you had a part number for tje right ecm laying around this guy has all of the wiring and whatnot but does not have an ecm

[This message has been edited by colowill (edited 04-16-2014).]

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Report this Post04-16-2014 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The transmission mounts to the cradle in the same location as the Fiero trans and uses the same axles. You can use a computer from any car that has the 2.0 turbo engine. My engine came from a 1990 Sunbird GT. Check eBay or www.car-part.com, you should be able to find one.
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FieroMaster88
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From: Mattawan, MI
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Report this Post04-20-2014 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Installed the passenger side dew wipe and replaced the broken wheel stud in the rear. Now I just have to align it.
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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post05-03-2014 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Took the car for a drive today. It defiantly feels faster with the new fuel pump! 45psi fuel pressure at wot, before I was at 38. AFR is better now at wot too.
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Csjag
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Report this Post05-04-2014 07:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What would you estimate 0 to 60 to be and are you having trouble with the engine running hot? Thanks
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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post05-04-2014 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No idea on 0-60, really don't want to throw out a bs guess, lol. I've had no problem with it running hot.
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Snapperhead
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From: Grand Rapids, MI USA
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Report this Post05-05-2014 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SnapperheadClick Here to visit Snapperhead's HomePageSend a Private Message to SnapperheadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The car looked great. Was checking it out at Mendon.. Couldn't find you though.

Vince
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