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How is the Fiero as a sports car? by Rn2016
Started on: 08-31-2016 04:46 PM
Replies: 227 (2987 views)
Last post by: dobey on 09-19-2016 08:48 AM
Rn2016
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Report this Post09-14-2016 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Well, it started life as an LS4. But the block and head castings, main caps, and minor things like some seals, plugs, and rear cover are literally the only things left from the stock engine that are getting used in the build.



Ah that is a nice engine. But expensive right? How much does an used LS4 cost these days?

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Report this Post09-14-2016 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


No, I'm not confused at all. And I wasn't disagreeing that putting an original Esprit body on a Fiero made no sense.

I was simply pointing out that the wheelbase and track width are virtually the same as the Fiero. However, the FIero is a transverse drivetrain, while the Esprit is longitudinal. This means the cabin is further forward, but the back end is longer, compared to the Fiero. If you wanted to turn a Fiero into an Esprit, so that the body lines could match up, it would be cheaper to just buy an Esprit.



OK, got ya.

Yes, I think it could be cheaper to buy a Esprit. The roof restructuring would be a lot of work if possible at all. If you don't do it it would look off and out of proportion like this:




Although thinking again, there are Lambo replicas on Fiero space frames that look correct, right? But with a Lambo you have the very same problem with the cabin more forward. Hmmm, how do they do it?
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Report this Post09-14-2016 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My thoughts on the kit car thing; If you want, you can build a Fiero to look exactly like a Lambo, Ferrari or a Lotus....if that's what you want, fine.

But the way I look at it, I prefer the car to look basically like a Fiero......I remember someone who spent $60,000 to create a Lambo.....Even had emblems and lights from a real Lambo.....I believe he had a Northstar w/supercharger in it.....So let's say you blow off a 911....The 911 guy is going to think, "Well, it's $200,000+car, I would expect it to be faster than my 911" . . . . But you can make a Fiero that looks like a Fiero go just as fast.....If you blow off that same 911 with a car that looks like a Fiero, the 911 driver is going to need a truck-load of Viagra to get it to ever work again!

Mind you, I am not talking just straight line(It's relatively easy to make a Fiero get thru a 1/4 mile quickly)....I mean the whole thing...Handling and braking, too......
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Report this Post09-14-2016 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TommyRockerClick Here to Email TommyRockerSend a Private Message to TommyRockerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm planning on stretching mine about a foot. I drew up very rough sketches in mspaint. The cab and front wheel location are unchanged. The rear wheels are moved back and the front and rear bodywork are changed to a widebody with heavy 60s can am/le man's racer influence. I think it is a good start. I'll have to sculpt in foam and see it in 3d.
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Report this Post09-14-2016 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rn2016:
Ah that is a nice engine. But expensive right? How much does an used LS4 cost these days?


Well, yes, it's expensive now because I made it expensive. You can find a complete dropout cheap enough though if you want a stock LS4. I think I paid around $1100 (including shipping) for my engine. That was just the engine with exhaust manifolds, water pump, and some brackets still bolted on though. I didn't get the trans, wiring harness, ECM, etc… with it. That was also 6 years ago when I bought it. Yeah, I've been very slow about building my car.

So far, I've probably spent another $7-8K just on the engine, and still haven't finished getting it together yet. But I'm also doing literally everything on my own, save for any heavier machine work that I need done.
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Report this Post09-15-2016 04:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

My thoughts on the kit car thing; If you want, you can build a Fiero to look exactly like a Lambo, Ferrari or a Lotus....if that's what you want, fine.



Please remember that this is a guy who was thinking of putting a REAL Lotus Esprit on a Fiero frame (ok, I gave him the idea as a joke). Not a kit car per say.

But I'm not building a kit car. I only brought the topic up as a curiosity. Since there are people here who have probably built replicas or heavily modified Fieros, I thought I would get an idea if I was really right that it would be a bad idea, or if I'm overlooking something and in fact, it's entirely possible and doable. As a curiosity. OK. If the guy would decide to do it for real I would not mind being part of his project.


 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:But the way I look at it, I prefer the car to look basically like a Fiero......I remember someone who spent $60,000 to create a Lambo.....Even had emblems and lights from a real Lambo.....I believe he had a Northstar w/supercharger in it.....So let's say you blow off a 911....The 911 guy is going to think, "Well, it's $200,000+car, I would expect it to be faster than my 911" . . . . But you can make a Fiero that looks like a Fiero go just as fast.....If you blow off that same 911 with a car that looks like a Fiero, the 911 driver is going to need a truck-load of Viagra to get it to ever work again!



I agree with you here 100%. And I think the Fiero is a beautiful enough design to stand on it's own and I have no intention of making a kit car out of one. Small enhancements to the look is fine though and it will still look like a Fiero.

But I have nothing against anybody who wants to heavily modify the look of the car or use it for a replica though. It's just not what I want to do. I want to keep it simple.

But yes, an expensive sports car getting smoked by a Fiero is much more fun than if the other driver thought he got smoked by a Lambo. I'm sure next time he looks at a "lowly" little Fiero he will adjust his prejudiced thoughts about it.

He will think, I probably better not mess with the little thing again.


 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:Mind you, I am not talking just straight line(It's relatively easy to make a Fiero get thru a 1/4 mile quickly)....I mean the whole thing...Handling and braking, too......


Anything can be made to go fast in a straight line. I was never impressed by it.
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Report this Post09-15-2016 04:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rn2016

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quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Well, yes, it's expensive now because I made it expensive. You can find a complete dropout cheap enough though if you want a stock LS4. I think I paid around $1100 (including shipping) for my engine. That was just the engine with exhaust manifolds, water pump, and some brackets still bolted on though. I didn't get the trans, wiring harness, ECM, etc… with it. That was also 6 years ago when I bought it. Yeah, I've been very slow about building my car.

So far, I've probably spent another $7-8K just on the engine, and still haven't finished getting it together yet. But I'm also doing literally everything on my own, save for any heavier machine work that I need done.



That's interesting. I would be more than happy enough with a stock LS4. Anything that gets me close to 300HP will be fine. I'm not interested in top speed. Just a very spirited drive. I think 250-300HP is more than enough for a car like the Fiero.

But I don't have the patience to wait 6 years. If I decide going for the project, which at this point I'm pretty sure I will do, I want to get the car now and have it ready for next summer.

So I need to figure out the rest of the stuff I need to figure out quickly.

So I can start!

[This message has been edited by Rn2016 (edited 09-15-2016).]

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Report this Post09-15-2016 04:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TommyRocker:

I'm planning on stretching mine about a foot. I drew up very rough sketches in mspaint. The cab and front wheel location are unchanged. The rear wheels are moved back and the front and rear bodywork are changed to a widebody with heavy 60s can am/le man's racer influence. I think it is a good start. I'll have to sculpt in foam and see it in 3d.


That is looking nice Tommy.

If it's only quarters and fenders mods with a chop top it's much easier. Stretching the car by moving the rear wheels back also seems straight forward enough. But none of that is enough for a Lotus or Lambo replica. For that you would need to change the cab and front wheel distance relation or something. So I'm still interested in learning how people who make Lambo replicas do. Because to me it seems they would have to basically make a new frame out of the Fiero space frame. So why bother instead of just building a full custom frame to begin with?

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quote
Originally posted by Rn2016:
This is what I was afraid I would end up finding out. Because I like the Fiero

Yes, I want stock best bang for buck no mods. I'm looking for an affordable mid-engine sports car to have fun with without having to rebuild the whole thing for it.

So it's looking like the best is to go with a MR2 MKII? Or what else would you suggest?

I'm glad I posted here though. I though if I posted in a Fiero forum I would only get fan replies and praise and not realistic ones. But I was afraid posting in a general car forum would produce mostly biased replies against the Fiero, because of it's bad reputation. Glad there are many realistic people here. Thanks for the honesty.




I sold new Toyota mid 90s and drove and love the MR2 I own a fiero and MR2 feels totally different to drive it is much easier. Fiero feels more a drivers car more energy required and more feel to do everything with a lot more room for improvement over MR2. MR2 has much cheaper mods though i think you should own both like I would if i could. They are both really fun cars and have own merits. If had both stock would want Mr2 Bathurst . A Mr2 worked with turbo vs Fiero engine swap slalom aframes etc I am all over the fiero cost is much higher at this point.
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Report this Post09-15-2016 07:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Australian:
I sold new Toyota mid 90s and drove and love the MR2 I own a fiero and MR2 feels totally different to drive it is much easier. Fiero feels more a drivers car more energy required and more feel to do everything with a lot more room for improvement over MR2. MR2 has much cheaper mods though i think you should own both like I would if i could. They are both really fun cars and have own merits. If had both stock would want Mr2 Bathurst . A Mr2 worked with turbo vs Fiero engine swap slalom aframes etc I am all over the fiero cost is much higher at this point.


For you, yes, the Fiero cost is going to be much higher, as you're in AU where the FIero was not originally sold. Over here in the US, that's not so true.
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Report this Post09-15-2016 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TommyRockerClick Here to Email TommyRockerSend a Private Message to TommyRockerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A Lamborghini windshield is very very long and lays much more horizontal than the Fiero. Look at a build thread some time. They use a different windshield and build a windshield frame to match it, so it stretches from the front wheels to the roof. Not my ideal but doable.
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Report this Post09-16-2016 04:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


For you, yes, the Fiero cost is going to be much higher, as you're in AU where the FIero was not originally sold. Over here in the US, that's not so true.


Your not accounting for what else I require the slalom suspension alone costs more than a fiero. If i lived in USA i would spend less but It would still be multiple times the value of either car before considered complete.

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 09-16-2016).]

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Report this Post09-16-2016 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Australian:
Your not accounting for what else I require the slalom suspension alone costs more than a fiero. If i lived in USA i would spend less but It would still be multiple times the value of either car before considered complete.


Sure, custom hand-built parts are expensive. There are plenty of Fieros which are valued higher than the slalom suspension setup though. Your idea of completeness is also different from others.

My point was that you're spending a fortune on shipping, even just for basic parts, because those aren't widely available for the Fiero in your area. You can't just go to the local yard and expect find a Fiero.
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Report this Post09-16-2016 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Australian:


Your not accounting for what else I require the slalom suspension alone costs more than a fiero. If i lived in USA i would spend less but It would still be multiple times the value of either car before considered complete.



A) The front suspension is not that bad....New upper BJs are adjustable to give you 1* of negative camber, and you can get it up to 5* of caster.....If you don't go with huge wide tires, the steering isn't that bad, and with wide tires you can install power steering.......My next plan for my 85 is to drill holes and mount a new upper A-arm tube so it is just below the spring perch, lowering the inner mounting point by 1"- Same as what they did to old Shelby Mustangs. Improved camber curve geometry.

B) If you are buying the car as an investment you have really selected the wrong car.....Although we here know the Fiero wasn't the rolling clown car that C&D and other mags made it out to be, most enthusiasts think it's a complete joke. I was talking to a guy about my Fiero(He was cool and asked the right questions) while a couple of other "enthusiasts" behind him were smirking and so on....."Common knowledge" is, at least sometimes, completely wrong......
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Report this Post09-17-2016 04:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Forget that I live in Australia I still could still spend several times more buying parts for a fiero. Stock I steer to Mr2 many enthusiasts don't realise what can really be achieved with a lot of money to either car. I could build shopping lists for both cars and will run out of money before ideas with the fiero. The Mr2 can achieve arguably similar worse or better performance not about to start a huge debate just went the path I did for a reason. Just an example A front end like this is $4,300 + postage This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
If quick to point could buy that also custom for Mr2 my point is the same the fiero has most room for improvement from stock.

Why do up a moderately priced car when you can buy a Ferrari and others will say sure I want a Ferrari but don't wan't it stock. A moderately priced Fiero could be built up into something quite special when not much else moderately priced can based on the chassis and applying parts available. Porsche 911 914 and Type 3 have a lot to offer since we are talking but he did mention he wanted stock sports car. Mr2 is great car any year and more forgiving in many ways changing parts easier to drive and cheap. If the guy wants stock and wants sports performance he has options. Some other bang for buck cars to thrash stock are mx5 or Porsche Boxster.

If i was just to read the title of the thread i would answer ....
A 4-cylinder at the Keystone Nationals on September 15, 1985 with a best 1/4-mile time of 9.72 seconds at 134.41 mph is pretty sporty.
http://www.wedriveexcitement.com

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 09-17-2016).]

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Report this Post09-17-2016 07:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Australian:
Forget that I live in Australia I still could still spend several times more buying parts for a fiero. Stock I steer to Mr2 many enthusiasts don't realise what can really be achieved with a lot of money to either car. I could build shopping lists for both cars and will run out of money before ideas with the fiero. The Mr2 can achieve arguably similar worse or better performance not about to start a huge debate just went the path I did for a reason. Just an example A front end like this is $4,300 + postage This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
If quick to point could buy that also custom for Mr2 my point is the same the fiero has most room for improvement from stock.

Why do up a moderately priced car when you can buy a Ferrari and others will say sure I want a Ferrari but don't wan't it stock. A moderately priced Fiero could be built up into something quite special when not much else moderately priced can based on the chassis and applying parts available. Porsche 911 914 and Type 3 have a lot to offer since we are talking but he did mention he wanted stock sports car. Mr2 is great car any year and more forgiving in many ways changing parts easier to drive and cheap. If the guy wants stock and wants sports performance he has options. Some other bang for buck cars to thrash stock are mx5 or Porsche Boxster.

If i was just to read the title of the thread i would answer ....
A 4-cylinder at the Keystone Nationals on September 15, 1985 with a best 1/4-mile time of 9.72 seconds at 134.41 mph is pretty sporty.
http://www.wedriveexcitement.com



Again, you're totally missing the point. If you completely re-engineer the entire suspension set-up, then yes it's going to be expensive, on any car. You could build a complete tube chassis and just bolt the body panels on too. But then it's not a Fiero, it's something else. This thread isn't about totally re-engineering the suspension of a Fiero. However, when taking an 88 and simply upgrading parts to much better components which fit in the same stock design, to allow for greater adjustment and performance, the cost is much lower than you proclaim, and can give the performance the OP is asking for.

A purpose-built drag car, is not a sports car. So comparing that is not helpful to the thread.
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Report this Post09-17-2016 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gwg1995Click Here to Email gwg1995Send a Private Message to gwg1995Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think sports car is an appropriate label for some Fieros. It definitely has to have a V6 and manual transmission. My 87 GT 5speed has a couple mods that made it fairly competitive at Autocross; Koni Red's, Eibachs, 1/2 lowering ball joints, and 225/40r18 tires. With my limited experience, I sat about mid pack of the Miata's. My tires are all seasons so with a stickier tire, I could go much faster (The tires scream every run). Also adding a rear sway bar would help significantly. I still enjoy going on backroad cruises with cars putting out double the HP. I'd say that for about $1000 on top of purchase price, you could have a solid sports car.

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Report this Post09-17-2016 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


No, I'm not confused at all. And I wasn't disagreeing that putting an original Esprit body on a Fiero made no sense.

I was simply pointing out that the wheelbase and track width are virtually the same as the Fiero. However, the FIero is a transverse drivetrain, while the Esprit is longitudinal. This means the cabin is further forward, but the back end is longer, compared to the Fiero. If you wanted to turn a Fiero into an Esprit, so that the body lines could match up, it would be cheaper to just buy an Esprit.


I agree that it makes no sense to put the Esprit panels onto a Fiero...if you have the whole, real Esprit to start with. Just fix the Esprit and call it a day. However....if you, for whatever the reason, decided that the Esprit was unsalvagable and wanted to use the body panels to build a replica then at that point it doesn't matter about removing the panels by cutting up everything underneath. At this point, you'd carry on building the replica just like every other replica out there is built. You strip everything off of your donor Fiero, stretch as required, cut off parts of the space frame that interfere (my Aventador replica probably only has about 60% of the original space frame) and then build up a supporting frame to mount the panels. No difference than the work done by all the other replica builders out there...except you'd have nice OEM panels rather than a cheap fiberglass body kit that most replica builders start with. Sure, it's a lot of work...replicas are always tough to build...but it is certainly manageable. Even the cabin location shouldn't be a problem since you'd base all measurements off the rear firewall that separates the cabin from the engine compartment. Cost would be comparable to any other kit car, which is still much less than a real Esprit (depending what the cost of the trashed Esprit is). But yes...just fix the Esprit and save another Fiero.

EDIT: Rn2016.... look at my Aventador build thread ( http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/134807.html ). It shows lots of things that you asked about such as effort required for doing the stretch, cabin position, suspension mods, etc

[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 09-17-2016).]

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Report this Post09-17-2016 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[Might be my car. It has a turbo LS4 in it. I like what you said about blowing them away with a sleeper Fiero.QUOTE]Originally posted by cvxjet:

My thoughts on the kit car thing; If you want, you can build a Fiero to look exactly like a Lambo, Ferrari or a Lotus....if that's what you want, fine.

But the way I look at it, I prefer the car to look basically like a Fiero......I remember someone who spent $60,000 to create a Lambo.....Even had emblems and lights from a real Lambo.....I believe he had a Northstar w/supercharger in it.....So let's say you blow off a 911....The 911 guy is going to think, "Well, it's $200,000+car, I would expect it to be faster than my 911" . . . . But you can make a Fiero that looks like a Fiero go just as fast.....If you blow off that same 911 with a car that looks like a Fiero, the 911 driver is going to need a truck-load of Viagra to get it to ever work again!

Mind you, I am not talking just straight line(It's relatively easy to make a Fiero get thru a 1/4 mile quickly)....I mean the whole thing...Handling and braking, too......[/QUOTE]

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Report this Post09-18-2016 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I pulled out from a driveway on Redwood road(Castro valley) just as a late 90s WRX STI(That was not stock) came over the top of the hill....They followed me around to Lake Chabot road- at one point it becomes very windy with a number of switchbacks...I nailed it and ran thru the turns...after approx' 3/4 of a mile I pulled over(I actually was hoping to ask how my car looked going thru the turns)...as they passed the driver and passenger both gave me the thumbs up. I couldn't hope to keep up with a(even stock) STI because of the lack of power, but they were definitely impressed with how it ran thru the turns.

It's very nice to have talent and computers to dial in a car's dynamics, but if you have knowledge- and are honest with your testing, you can dial it in pretty good.
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Report this Post09-18-2016 01:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am missing the point ok car must be close to stock as possible to fit within rules of most room for improvement. Sorry I was thinking how much car could be improved.
So your right and I am wrong. I will leave it at that.
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Report this Post09-19-2016 06:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:


A) The front suspension is not that bad....New upper BJs are adjustable to give you 1* of negative camber, and you can get it up to 5* of caster.....If you don't go with huge wide tires, the steering isn't that bad, and with wide tires you can install power steering.


What would be the widest tire recommended to fit the not huge wide tires characterization?

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Report this Post09-19-2016 06:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rn2016

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quote
Originally posted by gwg1995:

I think sports car is an appropriate label for some Fieros. It definitely has to have a V6 and manual transmission. My 87 GT 5speed has a couple mods that made it fairly competitive at Autocross; Koni Red's, Eibachs, 1/2 lowering ball joints, and 225/40r18 tires.


Sorry but what are the first 2 upgrades you listed?

 
quote
Originally posted by gwg1995: I'd say that for about $1000 on top of purchase price, you could have a solid sports car.


Is this how much is cost you for the upgrades you listed above?

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Report this Post09-19-2016 06:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by dobey:


Again, you're totally missing the point. If you completely re-engineer the entire suspension set-up, then yes it's going to be expensive, on any car. You could build a complete tube chassis and just bolt the body panels on too. But then it's not a Fiero, it's something else.


This is an interesting thought. Fieros seem to be one of the most modified cars. When does it stop being "just" a Fiero? If somebody upgrades only the engine and tune the suspension, I guess it's still a Fiero. But what about heavy mods like engine swap, gear box swap, keep stock suspension but with heavy upgrades, fully new interior and fully new body work which may require heavy customization of the space frame etc. Is it still a Fiero? It's an interesting argument.


 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:This thread isn't about totally re-engineering the suspension of a Fiero. However, when taking an 88 and simply upgrading parts to much better components which fit in the same stock design, to allow for greater adjustment and performance, the cost is much lower than you proclaim, and can give the performance the OP is asking for.


Would you mind giving me a list of these parts to be upgraded in the suspension? If you would know brand names and models it would be even more helpful. So I could start pricing etc. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Rn2016 (edited 09-19-2016).]

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Report this Post09-19-2016 06:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rn2016

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Originally posted by Australian:

I am missing the point ok car must be close to stock as possible to fit within rules of most room for improvement. Sorry I was thinking how much car could be improved.
So your right and I am wrong. I will leave it at that.


It's all right Australian. The thread kind of changed quite a bit since the start. I was looking for a car which I could drive as a sports car in stock form. But along the way I was convinced doing upgrades on the Fiero is the best way. So now I'm considering doing mild upgrades such as an engine swap, suspension upgrades etc. Nothing too crazy like totally re-engineering the car though.

So you are not really wrong. The thread just changed tune a bit.

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Report this Post09-19-2016 06:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by dobey:


For you, yes, the Fiero cost is going to be much higher, as you're in AU where the FIero was not originally sold. Over here in the US, that's not so true.


And this is a bit the case with me as well. I'm in Europe. So Fieros are not common here, which makes them a bit special. Because most would not know what they are if they saw them on the road. But they are not expensive to buy because whoever is selling or buying know what they are. Here they are just an old American 80's car which is not a Mustang, Camaro or Corvette. Pretty much the only American cars which have any value here besides classic muscle cars etc. So you can find them for cheap to buy and it's not really hard to find them. Not as many options as in the U.S. but not an unicorn either.

The downside is not having the huge used market you have in the U.S. to buy parts etc. No chance of walking in a junk yard and finding a Fiero just lying around. Also I believe any after market parts would have to e shipped from the U.S., which could add up quickly. If it shares any parts with Camaros and Corvettes then I can get them here. Those are popular U.S. cars. But I would think mostly parts will have to be bought from the U.S.

Hence why I was considering the GM High Feature V6. I think it would be very hard finding a Buick 3800 here. But the GM High Feature V6 being an European engine was used in several models here and I have high chances of finding one in a junk yard or something. It's also more modern than the 3800. But mainly it would be way easier to find and service during the car's life.
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Report this Post09-19-2016 06:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rn2016Send a Private Message to Rn2016Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Neils88:


I agree that it makes no sense to put the Esprit panels onto a Fiero...if you have the whole, real Esprit to start with. Just fix the Esprit and call it a day. However....if you, for whatever the reason, decided that the Esprit was unsalvagable and wanted to use the body panels to build a replica then at that point it doesn't matter about removing the panels by cutting up everything underneath. At this point, you'd carry on building the replica just like every other replica out there is built. You strip everything off of your donor Fiero, stretch as required, cut off parts of the space frame that interfere (my Aventador replica probably only has about 60% of the original space frame) and then build up a supporting frame to mount the panels. No difference than the work done by all the other replica builders out there...except you'd have nice OEM panels rather than a cheap fiberglass body kit that most replica builders start with. Sure, it's a lot of work...replicas are always tough to build...but it is certainly manageable. Even the cabin location shouldn't be a problem since you'd base all measurements off the rear firewall that separates the cabin from the engine compartment. Cost would be comparable to any other kit car, which is still much less than a real Esprit (depending what the cost of the trashed Esprit is). But yes...just fix the Esprit and save another Fiero.

EDIT: Rn2016.... look at my Aventador build thread ( http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/134807.html ). It shows lots of things that you asked about such as effort required for doing the stretch, cabin position, suspension mods, etc



Nice build thread! Lots of work! You are a brave man. And very talented. Thanks for pointing me to it. It did help to understand a bit.

But in the thread it's not clear what exactly you did with the cabin or windshield. I couldn't find a picture of the finished space frame sitting without the body work. That would give a more clear image. But it seems to be basically what I had said. Not possible unless you totally re-engineer the Fiero's frame. So at that point why not just build a whole new frame? Would it really be harder than customizing the Fiero's frame so heavily?

In the case of the Esprit, he only has the fiberglass shell. No engine, gearbox or even suspension. So it would probably be cheaper to buy a running Esprit than restoring his. But when I told him it may be possible to put it on a Fiero frame and told him the cheap prices Fieros sell for, he was very interested. Then I said that you can even and easily put a V8 in it, something that in a real Esprit is very hard because of space, he got really excited.

But in a way it would be a waste and a pity to butcher a real Lotus Esprit body. It's an unibody and you would be cutting off basically just the surface and leaving the under structure behind. The shell is complete with roof, floors, center tube, fire walls etc. Nothing comes off. Not even the fenders. It's all a single piece. Only the hood, trunk, pop up lights and doors are separated pieces.

So it is a bit of a waste cutting it up. But then again so is leaving the body just lying around in his backyard without being driven.
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Report this Post09-19-2016 08:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Rn2016:
And this is a bit the case with me as well. I'm in Europe. So Fieros are not common here, which makes them a bit special. Because most would not know what they are if they saw them on the road. But they are not expensive to buy because whoever is selling or buying know what they are. Here they are just an old American 80's car which is not a Mustang, Camaro or Corvette. Pretty much the only American cars which have any value here besides classic muscle cars etc. So you can find them for cheap to buy and it's not really hard to find them. Not as many options as in the U.S. but not an unicorn either.

The downside is not having the huge used market you have in the U.S. to buy parts etc. No chance of walking in a junk yard and finding a Fiero just lying around. Also I believe any after market parts would have to e shipped from the U.S., which could add up quickly. If it shares any parts with Camaros and Corvettes then I can get them here. Those are popular U.S. cars. But I would think mostly parts will have to be bought from the U.S.

Hence why I was considering the GM High Feature V6. I think it would be very hard finding a Buick 3800 here. But the GM High Feature V6 being an European engine was used in several models here and I have high chances of finding one in a junk yard or something. It's also more modern than the 3800. But mainly it would be way easier to find and service during the car's life.


Where in Europe? There have been several non-GM drivetrain swaps that have been completed as well. If you want a High Feature V6, being in Europe, I'd mostly recommend trying to find a Saab 9-3 2.8t to start from. You can probably find one pretty cheap. Otherwise, other options could be a VW VR6 or TDi swap (both have been done in Fieros before), which should be very plentiful over there.

But really, now that you finally stated where you are, I'd have to say that a Fiero may in fact not be the best thing for you to buy. They are certainly not plentiful there, and will be more expensive initially to get, especially an 88. :-/
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