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Battery relocate charging issue by alcazar88
Started on: 08-24-2016 09:40 PM
Replies: 29 (721 views)
Last post by: rogergarrison on 02-14-2018 10:50 AM
alcazar88
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Report this Post08-24-2016 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for alcazar88Send a Private Message to alcazar88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 88 formula has the battery relocated to the spare tire area due to the battery tray rusting away. During the day it runs fine and the alternator stays above red, but not much. If the headlights are on it bounces lower and red light comes on sporadically. Battery is brand new and doesn't change anything. Before I look at replacing the alternator I'm interested to see if anyone else relocated the battery and had this issue. Some thought that the alternator may have trouble with such a long connection to the battery for charging. Anyone else experience this? I bought the car this way,so not sure what kit was used.

Thanks.
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Patrick
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Report this Post08-24-2016 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by alcazar88:

Some thought that the alternator may have trouble with such a long connection to the battery for charging.


Interestingly enough, I don't think it's the long positive battery cable that potentially causes a problem.

I relocated the battery to the front of my '88 Formula using two long battery cables from a couple of GM cars (which had their batteries under the rear seat). With the negative battery cable being run all the way back to the engine block (as opposed to just being grounded to the frame in the front), I've had absolutely no problems with the battery staying charged the last three years.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-24-2016).]

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alcazar88
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Report this Post08-25-2016 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for alcazar88Send a Private Message to alcazar88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting. I don't actually know where the ground cable goes. I will look at that tomorrow.

Thanks for the idea.
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alcazar88
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Report this Post08-25-2016 01:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for alcazar88Send a Private Message to alcazar88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

alcazar88

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I had to go look. My negative is grounded in front. Is there anyone else with battery relocated and ground in front that is working fine?
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post08-25-2016 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Make sure your grounds are good from the battery to the frame. Make sure the engine is properly grounded also. You can buy a short battery cable and ground it properly from engine to frame. Clean all paint from grounding bolts and frame. You want clean metal and lots of it.
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ltlfrari
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Report this Post08-25-2016 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have mine grounded to the front but I WELD a stud to the front of the tub and hook up the ground cable to that. Never had any problems on any of my cars doing it that way.

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Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

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Blacktree
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Report this Post08-25-2016 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have redundant grounds, one in front and one in the back. I originally just had the one in front, but after the car developed a hard-start condition, I added the rear one. I attached it to the passenger side decklid hinge, which is also where the engine ground strap is attached.
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Fieroking
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Report this Post08-29-2016 02:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierokingClick Here to visit Fieroking's HomePageClick Here to Email FierokingSend a Private Message to FierokingEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have done both of my Fiero's with the battery in front. I weld a stud in the front and the back. I have more no problems with either car. I do use double o welding cable for the positive cable as the welding cable can carry a large amp load and the rubber cover is very tuff.

Joe Sokol

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)
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Synthesis
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Report this Post08-29-2016 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SynthesisSend a Private Message to SynthesisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I was building the battery relocation cable kits, I included both a positive and negative cable to go from the front all the way to the engine. The ground would bolt to the bellhousing bolt on the front of the motor near the starter.
I also included a shourt (18" or so) ground cable with twin eyelets to connect between the engine and the chassis (hinge box or the like).

Never had an issue with any of the clients who purchased.
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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post08-30-2016 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I had mine grounded at the front I always had some sort of problem. All problems went away when I ran the ground all the way to the back.
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qwikgta
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Report this Post09-01-2016 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
just to chime in, I also used welding cable, 25" of it, cut into two long cables. I run them both from the front to the engine. No issues. a few months ago i went to the local yard and found a stock GM cable from a Saturn Vue, it locates the batt in the trunk. The Vue had a small cable from the batt to the frame, so I guess it works either way, you just have to use good cables and find good grounds.

Rob
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Report this Post09-01-2016 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey would it be a no-no to use jumper cable wires?

"Heavy Duty 2 Gauge Wire Extra Long 25 Feet Ft Length 600 Amp Copper Plate Parrot Jaw Auto Booster Jumper Jumping Cable"
$32

https://www.amazon.com/Leng...=25+ft+jumper+cables

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Napoleon_Tanerite
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Report this Post09-01-2016 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Napoleon_TaneriteSend a Private Message to Napoleon_TaneriteEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Hey would it be a no-no to use jumper cable wires?

"Heavy Duty 2 Gauge Wire Extra Long 25 Feet Ft Length 600 Amp Copper Plate Parrot Jaw Auto Booster Jumper Jumping Cable"
$32

https://www.amazon.com/Leng...=25+ft+jumper+cables


So long as the insulation is good quality and you crimp the ends properly, I don't see why that would be a problem. It's not cosmic-- we're talking about strands of metal designed to conduct electricity. Maybe someone smarter than me will chime in though (there seems to ALWAYS be someone on this forum who needs me to know how much smarter than me they are)
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alcazar88
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Report this Post09-01-2016 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for alcazar88Send a Private Message to alcazar88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for all the great input. We are going to spend some time this weekend figuring out if there is any way to mount a battery tray back in the rear where it used to be, or locating a long ground wire as stated above.
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Report this Post09-05-2016 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just curious if anyone used a fuse on those long battery cable runs? I'm thinking in the 200 amp range, but without a fuse a hard short could melt the car to the ground.
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Report this Post09-06-2016 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Just curious if anyone used a fuse on those long battery cable runs? I'm thinking in the 200 amp range, but without a fuse a hard short could melt the car to the ground.


I know I'm going to inspect my recently acquired car that has a front mounted battery.....
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Cajun
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Report this Post09-06-2016 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CajunClick Here to Email CajunSend a Private Message to CajunEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A couple of years ago I relocated the battery to the front. For the wiring I used 2/0 welding cable (very flexible). The cable sheathed by flexible 1/2 inch conduit.
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deloreanant
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Report this Post09-12-2016 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for deloreanantSend a Private Message to deloreanantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cajun:

A couple of years ago I relocated the battery to the front. For the wiring I used 2/0 welding cable (very flexible). The cable sheathed by flexible 1/2 inch conduit.


Where did you route your cables?
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Blacktree
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Report this Post09-12-2016 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can't speak for Cajun, but I ran a section of PVC pipe alongside the gas tank. I zip-tied it to one of the heater lines. A 5 foot long piece of pipe was the perfect length.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 09-12-2016).]

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Cajun
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Report this Post09-14-2016 07:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CajunClick Here to Email CajunSend a Private Message to CajunEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As Blacktree said, alone side the gas tank.
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MadMark
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Report this Post09-14-2016 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just had a problem with my battery connections on my Fiero. I have very heavy 4/0 Welding wire 600 Volt insulation with both the positive and negative run back to the starter. After several years of use the connections were corroded, so I used a dremel tool with a drum sander on it to clean up both the connections and the places where they were bolted to the starter. I also had the positive cable jumpered to the positive connection up under the C-500 connector with a #6 welding wire and that too was corroded and caused problems, both with charging and with just getting anything to power up.
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Patrick
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Report this Post09-14-2016 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

I also had the positive cable jumpered to the positive connection up under the C-500 connector with a #6 welding wire and that too was corroded and caused problems, both with charging and with just getting anything to power up.


I suspect the connections at either end of that cable are often overlooked... and possibly lead to any number of potential issues with electrical power (or lack thereof).
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MadMark
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Report this Post09-15-2016 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Patrick:

I suspect the connections at either end of that cable are often overlooked... and possibly lead to any number of potential issues with electrical power (or lack thereof).


Well, the ones in the front trunk are almost like new. But, the ones under the car are exposed to the weather and I have had to drive it a few times in the winter in Michigan. So it has had its share of salty snow and water on the connections.

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Patrick
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Report this Post09-15-2016 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:

Well, the ones in the front trunk are almost like new...


That's no surprise ... but I was just referring to the connections at either end of the cable that runs from the large lug on the starter to the main power junction. It's the cable that supplies power to the whole car (except for the starter).
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Report this Post09-16-2016 04:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Put a new Earth cable to the chassis as the fiero has an inadequate earth.
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Report this Post02-09-2018 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonstertoneClick Here to Email MonstertoneSend a Private Message to MonstertoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post02-09-2018 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonstertoneClick Here to Email MonstertoneSend a Private Message to MonstertoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Monstertone

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Can anyone tell me what is between the battery and the starter solenoid? I am seeing something mounted on the RR shock tower, just behind the stock battery tray. Looks like it could be a relay. The positve cable from the battery connects to it, & then to the starter solenoid, plus there are some other wires in the harness connected to it.
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Report this Post02-09-2018 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by alcazar88:

I had to go look. My negative is grounded in front. Is there anyone else with battery relocated and ground in front that is working fine?


My ground runs from the battery to the bolt that holds the brake booster to the firewall.
In the back I have two grounds. One from the transmission-to-block bolt/stud, up to the hinge box; and one from the trunk-side cylinder head to the bracket on the shock tower, where the dog bone used to bolt. (4.9 engine.)

The positive cable is a thick beast. Came with Norm's battery box, but I'm thinking it's an Olds Aurora (or similar) cable.
It runs directly to the big lug on the starter (since the starter is what requires all the juice.) There's a smaller cable that runs from that lug, up to the terminal block, under the C500 connector.
Everywhere the positive cable comes near *anything*, it's run through a section of heater hose.

Nothing is fused, but I do have a knife switch in the negative cable, right at the battery.

I also have a gear reduction starter, instead of the 30 lb. doorstop that came with the engine. Starts and charges just fine.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-09-2018).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post02-10-2018 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Monstertone:

Can anyone tell me what is between the battery and the starter solenoid? I am seeing something mounted on the RR shock tower, just behind the stock battery tray. Looks like it could be a relay. The positve cable from the battery connects to it, & then to the starter solenoid, plus there are some other wires in the harness connected to it.

Sounds like you're talking about the power distribution block. It's basically just a connection point for all those power wires (instead of splicing them all together).
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post02-14-2018 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a race boat with a modified 454 engine. It would not turn over hot. I ended up running 2 positive cables together from the battery to the starter and problem went away I used welding cable.
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