Yes I know that all cops are not like this, but it seems to be ever more common. 16 shots, the last three fired into his back as he lay bleeding were the fatal shots. Some accountability is called for. I just read a brief account of the incident so possibly there is more to it than reported.
IP: Logged
07:31 AM
PFF
System Bot
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Wheres Jessie and Al.....they always know what to do. I pretty much dont like cops anymore...but saying that, I wish every criminal caught in the act of a crime would be shot dead on the spot. We need a LOT less criminals. Just in last few days right here Ive run 3 thieves off the property next door stealing scrap, the KMart across the street got robbed of $40K in jewelry, and the neighbor on my other side had 3 employees cars broken into during work just last evening. And this is one of the better neighborhoods of Columbus. Lately they bypass my place because Im known as the crazy guy with guns and have lots of outside lights. The cops came into my house to view my video of last nite and asked why I had a .45 laying on the couch....I just answered 'duhhh'.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 11-08-2013).]
IP: Logged
07:45 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
The cops came into my house to view my video of last nite and asked why I had a .45 laying on the couch....I just answered 'duhhh'.
Evidently they haven't got a clue Roger. I would show where one of our Glock's is hidden in plane sight that you don't know its there but that kind of defeats the purpose of it's hiding spot now doesn't it.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-08-2013).]
IP: Logged
08:32 AM
steve308 Member
Posts: 3969 From: Stafford VA Registered: Jan 2008
Wheres Jessie and Al.....they always know what to do. I pretty much dont like cops anymore...but saying that, I wish every criminal caught in the act of a crime would be shot dead on the spot. We need a LOT less criminals.
So say you catch a kid stealing a candy bar? Kill him dead? I mean, he is technically a criminal at that point.
IP: Logged
09:19 AM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9474 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
Chicago set to pay $4.1 million in police shooting
In the latest seven-figure settlement, a video showed Officer Gildardo Sierra firing three shots into Flint Farmer's back as the South Side man lay bleeding on a parkway early on June 7, 2011. The shooting was the third by Sierra in six months — and the second fatality, records show.
The city acknowledged the settlement in December just hours after a federal judge upheld a jury's judgment that a "code of silence" exists in the Chicago Police Department to protect rogue officers. But the $4.1 million figure was not disclosed until Friday.
The money will be placed into a trust fund for Farmer's 3-year-old daughter, but his father, Emmett, said the amount does little to relieve the family's heartache.
"I'm still looking for justice because when I see that video, I don't see a shooting. I see an execution," he said.
The Police Department ruled Farmer's shooting justified, but Superintendent Garry McCarthy later told the Tribune that he considered the case "a big problem" and that the officer involved should not have been on the street given his history of shootings.
Sierra later admitted that he drank "multiple" beers before he went to work that night, but the city waited more than five hours to give him a breath test, according to a court filing by Craig Sandberg, a lawyer for the slain man's estate.
The alleged failure to quickly administer a breath test reflects what has been a frequent problem in the department. A December 2007 Tribune investigation, "Shielded From the Truth," showed that supervisors often waited hours to administer breath tests to officers, both on- and off-duty, raising questions about how aggressively the department investigates shootings involving officers.
The Independent Police Review Authority, the city agency that investigates shootings involving officers, referred all three shootings by Sierra to the Cook County state's attorney's office for possible criminal prosecution. A spokeswoman for State's Attorney Anita Alvarez has said the probe is ongoing.
As the Tribune has reported, the FBI also is investigating the shootings.
Sierra, 32, who joined the department 10 years ago, was stripped of his police powers and has been working at the city's 311 center since the shooting.
Attorneys for the city and Sierra could not be reached Friday for comment.
Before Farmer's death, Sierra, a patrol officer in the Englewood district, had wounded a 19-year-old man in a shooting in March 2011 and killed Darius Pinex, 27, in January 2011.
In Sierra's deposition for the lawsuit, he testified that he wasn't given a "mandatory psychological debriefing" as required by the department after both those shootings, according to the court filing by the attorney for Farmer's estate.
Sierra continued working the overnight shift in Englewood after the first two shootings. He was on duty shortly before 2 a.m. June 7 when he and a partner responded to a domestic disturbance call allegedly involving Farmer and his girlfriend in the 6200 block of South Honore Avenue.
Confronted by the officers about beating his girlfriend and her 3-year-old daughter, Farmer allegedly fled through an empty lot to South Wolcott Avenue, one street west. He got as far as the parkway when the officer yelled at him.
Police reports said Farmer, a 29-year-old unemployed sales clerk, put his hands in his pocket and pulled out a dark object. He was then shot in the abdomen and thigh and fell to the ground.
Moments later, a squad car responded to the scene, officials said, and captured video of Sierra as he stepped onto the parkway, walked around the unarmed Farmer in a semicircle and fired three more shots. A medical examiner later ruled that the last three bullets were the fatal shots.
A cellphone was found near his body. He was not carrying a gun.
The source that I first read didn't say that it was two years ago. I thought that it was a current event. I feel a bit better knowing that the deceased was a woman and child beater if that's true. Doesn't make it right though and I still get upset when the taxpayers have to shell out millions of dollars in a settlement and the perpetrator shells out nothing, not even losing his job.
IP: Logged
11:05 AM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15147 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
The news reported he stole $41K in gold jewelry..mostly necklaces, bracelets and earrings. Not my fact.
At my house, yes breaking into my house or car for a candy bar or loose change gets you shot dead unless I can easily tell your under 10- 12. Anything thats MINE is MINE and I will shoot you for trying to steal or vandalize it. I dont take time to make distinctions when I could be shot back at. A 'kid' with a gun that shoots at me with his gun injures or kills me just as easy as a 25 year old. IF I get arrested...so be it. EVEN if convicted, I dont have that long anyway so I really dont give a crap.
The kid that steals a candybar now will have higher goals as he gets older. Its a fact (in most cases) that all criminals always follow a life of more and more crime. Almost any rap sheet on a convicted criminal shows that they started when they were kids.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 11-08-2013).]
IP: Logged
11:35 AM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
I don't like to admit it but there was a year when I was a teenager that I shoplifted. It was a thrill thing and I thought it was a game where I outfoxed the store owners. Not all young thieves go on to a life of crime. I went back and paid for all the things that I stole. Still wish that I had never done that.
Most cops are good guys, but you run across one of these and your life is very much in jeopardy. Unfortunately, we have no way to tell which cops are the good ones when we meet them. I'm sure LEOs can relate as they routinely comment they don't know if the citizen they're interacting with is a criminal or not.
I agree. I wonder tho, if I were stopped for erratic driving, would I be allowed to wait 5 hrs before breathalyzer or blood alc test?
quote
The Police Department ruled Farmer's shooting justified, but Superintendent Garry McCarthy later told the Tribune that he considered the case "a big problem" and that the officer involved should not have been on the street given his history of shootings.
Sierra later admitted that he drank "multiple" beers before he went to work that night, but the city waited more than five hours to give him a breath test, according to a court filing by Craig Sandberg, a lawyer for the slain man's estate.
The alleged failure to quickly administer a breath test reflects what has been a frequent problem in the department. A December 2007 Tribune investigation, "Shielded From the Truth," showed that supervisors often waited hours to administer breath tests to officers, both on- and off-duty, raising questions about how aggressively the department investigates shootings involving officers.
Probably not.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-08-2013).]
IP: Logged
01:17 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
I don't like to admit it but there was a year when I was a teenager that I shoplifted. It was a thrill thing and I thought it was a game where I outfoxed the store owners. Not all young thieves go on to a life of crime. I went back and paid for all the things that I stole. Still wish that I had never done that.
Im sure there are exceptions...like I said. Most do go on to a life of crime. The more they do it, the more they thirst for more. Its also a thrill to up the crimes as they go. They dont just keep on stealing an occasional candy bar when theyre 30. If you want to keep your kid alive around me, its simply a matter of teaching him not to steal.
IP: Logged
03:00 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Originally posted by rogergarrison:Im sure there are exceptions...like I said. Most do go on to a life of crime. The more they do it, the more they thirst for more. Its also a thrill to up the crimes as they go. They dont just keep on stealing an occasional candy bar when theyre 30. If you want to keep your kid alive around me, its simply a matter of teaching him not to steal.
As I said before, it is amazing that so many of us make it to adulthood. Now if I want to steal, I take a bite from my wifes plate. My son was about 3 when he stole something, I was glad he did so, I could break him of it early. Not saying that everybody steals but, I think it is easier to imprint and stop the behavior early.
IP: Logged
04:59 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
Im sure there are exceptions...like I said. Most do go on to a life of crime. The more they do it, the more they thirst for more. Its also a thrill to up the crimes as they go.
I completely disagree with you on this. On what data do you base your point of view that "most" (meaning more than 50%, I guess) of kids that steal small items go on to a life of crime?
most officers go their whole career never having to discharge their weapon.
Exactly. Thanks for saying that Nick.
I work for Defence Research dealing with safety and security. We work with the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) and the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) (..and other provincial police departments) on many projects. While there are always going to be a few bad apples that catch peoples attention (usually the media - and people are people so bad apples are in every job), a majority of them are stand up guys and girls who really are there because they believe in the mandate of their departments. I've said it before, proper training is critical...however, even when you beat them over the head with it, some people just don't fit the mold and will end up doing something stupid sooner or later. Proper training will still limit these occurrences.
[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 11-08-2013).]
IP: Logged
10:35 PM
mrfiero Member
Posts: 8996 From: Colorful Colorado Registered: Mar 99
Originally posted by Formula88: I'm sure LEOs citizens can relate as they routinely comment they don't know if the citizen LEO they're interacting with is a criminal or not.
Sadly......it now goes both ways.
[This message has been edited by mrfiero (edited 11-08-2013).]
I completely disagree with you on this. On what data do you base your point of view that "most" (meaning more than 50%, I guess) of kids that steal small items go on to a life of crime?
Yes thats what Im saying. Just going locally, a lot more than 50% of the persons caught committing crimes have records of crimes all the way back to being juveniles. I cant say that about everywhere...just here....because I dont have any knowlege of anywhere elses crime patterns. They start out stealing candy bars, then bikes, then burglary, robbery. The more they do and get away with (or not) the more they try for. I was brought up not to steal candy bars so I have never had the desire to steal anything...it was inbred into me. Kids these days usually start because older family members, even parents are watched doing it. If you see mom steal from a store, you usually will to at some point. Criminal parents therefore usually breed criminal kids. Ive even seen parents use their own kids as planned diversions to their own activities.
IP: Logged
01:38 PM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
Yes thats what Im saying. Just going locally, a lot more than 50% of the persons caught committing crimes have records of crimes all the way back to being juveniles.
That's as good as saying "My Fiero has 500hp because the seat of my pants tell me so."
It is well established that the risk of recidivism drops steadily with time, but there is still the question of how long is long enough. By looking at data for more than 88,000 people who had their first arrest in New York State in 1980, and tracking their subsequent criminal histories over the next 25 years, we estimate the “redemption time” — the time it takes for an individual’s likelihood of being arrested to be close to that of individuals with no criminal records — to be about 10 to 13 years. We also found that about 30 percent of the first-time offenders in 1980 were never arrested again, in New York or anywhere else.
In that particular study, only 1 in 3 (33%) did NOT continue criminal activity beyond the 1st offense. IOW, 2/3 of the demographic went on to at least be arrested for a 2nd crime.
