The Cyprus banking system is voting to tax everyone with money in banks not just on interest gained but on the total saved in the account. When the USA administration was asked if this could or will occur here, to stimulate the economy, they refused to comment.
But as we all know if the progressive / liberals think they can increase revenues this could be a reality.

http://www.usnews.com/news/...t-by-savings-seizure

Russian money in Cyprus hit by savings seizure
March 18, 2013 RSS Feed Print

By NATALIYA VASILYEVA, Associated Press

MOSCOW (AP) — Cyprus has for decades been a favorite place for Russian businessmen to place their savings and for corrupt Russian officials to stash ill-gotten gains. Like all deposits in Cyprus, that money is expected to be taxed as part of a bailout deal that Cyprus is receiving from its fellow members in the eurozone.

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday criticized the decision as "unjust, unprofessional and dangerous," according to his spokesman. Here's a glance at why Russians keep so much money in Cypriot banks and how Russia can be affected by the island nation's crisis.

HOW MUCH MONEY DO RUSSIANS KEEP IN CYPRUS?

Russians keep about $19 billion in deposits in Cyprus, mainly through companies they set up there, according to the Moody's ratings agency. Russian banks also had around $12 billion placed with Cypriot banks at the end of last year and have loaned about $40 billion to Cypriot companies of Russian origin.

WHY DO RUSSIANS KEEP SO MUCH MONEY IN CYPRUS?

Russia boasts some of the world's lowest income and corporate taxes — both flat at 13 percent. But over the past two decades, Russian businessmen have preferred to place their savings in offshore, partly to escape political uncertainty and corruption in Russia. Cyprus offers a 10 percent corporate tax rate and relatively stable political situation.

Cyprus is also believed to be a top destination for money-laundering. It is much safer for a corrupt Russian official to keep proceeds from illegal activities abroad, hiding information about their fortunes and holdings away from the prying eyes of Russian banking regulators.

Russian officials estimated that about $49 billion, which is equivalent to 2.5 percent of Russia's gross domestic product, was wired to foreign accounts illegally last year. Sergei Ignatyev, outgoing chief of the Russian Central Bank, has said that these transfers might be linked to drug trafficking and corruption activities.

DO ORDINARY RUSSIANS KEEP MONEY IN CYPRUS?

No, middle-class Russians mainly keep their savings and investments at home.

HOW COULD DEVELOPMENTS IN CYPRUS AFFECT RUSSIA'S ECONOMY?

Tens of billions of dollars have left Russia in recent years, mainly because businessmen are anxious about Russia's politics and corruption, analysts say. Russian officials, however, do not expect troubles in Cyprus to bring the money back home. Deputy Economic Minister Andrei Klepach said Monday that he does not think that developments in Cyprus will affect capital flows in either direction.

More than $56 billion was transferred from Russia to other countries last year.

WHAT ARE THE DANGERS FOR RUSSIAN BANKS?

Russian banks have given loans worth about $40 billion to Cyprus-based companies of Russian origin, according to Moody's. If investors start pulling big sums of money out of Cyprus, the government there could freeze capital flows. That would block loan repayments to the Russian banks.

Ivan Tchakarov, chief economist at the Moscow-based Renaissance Capital investment bank, said in a morning note to investors that if Cyprus were to impose capital controls, "Russian banks could face significant losses amounting to almost 2 percent of the GDP."

CAN RUSSIA HELP BAIL CYPRUS OUT?

Russia has loaned Cyprus money before. The island nation is now anxious to delay payments for a 2011 loan of €2.5 billion ($3.2 billion) it received from Moscow.

Cyprus is also seeking a new €2 billion loan from Russia. Putin has said Russia would be willing to help Cyprus once a European rescue package is in place, but many senior cabinet ministers have spoken strongly against lending money to Cyprus.

Finance Minister Anton Siluanov, who is expected to host his Cypriot counterpart on Wednesday for loan talks, said last week that Russia may in exchange ask Cyprus for information on the Cypriot companies registered by Russians.

Siluanov on Monday complained that Russia had not been informed of the decision to levy a tax on deposits despite an agreement for Russia and the EU to coordinate their efforts. Siluanov said that the ministry will have to reconsider whether to provide Cyprus with financial aid "in the light of the new situation."

Here is another few links. And yes I know it's from a Glenn Beck site.

http://www.theblaze.com/sto...e-rest-of-the-world/

http://www.theblaze.com/sto...posit-tax-for-1-day/

http://www.theblaze.com/sto...ax-on-bank-deposits/

We would be foolish to think that it could NEVER happen here. In another 10-20 years... what would make us think it would be impossible?

That said, there have been several bills that have been discussed from the more radical on the left... many of them have discussed in the past the possibility of "nationalizing" people's private retirements because the debate in congress had suggested that perhaps they didn't deserve all of it. That said, few of those bills ever actually get proposed (most of it is just talk) and none of them have ever passed.

Even with things going the way they are, I think we're at least a decade away from that being a reality.


I could be wrong, but I want to say that something like this did in fact happen in our past... I think perhaps as a result of the great depression. I wouldn't even know how to think about searching for this... but in past research, I'm pretty sure I've run into something along the lines of the Democrats proposing and passing some sort of one-time "wealth tax" in order to get the money moving.

Wow just found out that Cyprus has had gun controls in place for a number of years. What are they well handguns are illegal in all calibers, rifles are illegal in all calibers but you can own a shotgun. It must be registered and only 2 rounds. So Uncle Joe Biden would be at home in Cyprus. So how do you think the bank takeover by the government will go with just shotguns and only 2 rounds before reloading. Anyone starting to see a pattern here? Cyprus is about 8-10 years ahead of the US in the banking troubles.

Earl

Did you read the article you posted?

Let's assume the rich Russians had stashed their illegal and black money in the US, to the tune of several times the US GDP. Now the US banking system is going belly-up because the banks speculated in high-yield, high-risk Greek debt and lost their bet. Now, would you be OK with the US government (or, worse, ask another country's peoples) bailing out the banks with taxpayer money so that those Russians don't lose a penny of their money and accrued interest?

I would like to see this forum if that happened...

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Did you read the article you posted? Let's assume the rich Russians had stashed their illegal and black money in the US, to the tune of several times the US GDP. Now the US banking system is going belly-up because the banks speculated in high-yield, high-risk Greek debt and lost their bet. Now, would you be OK with the US government (or, worse, ask another country's peoples) bailing out the banks with taxpayer money so that those Russians don't lose a penny of their money and accrued interest? I would like to see this forum if that happened...

I did read the articles (4) that I posted. Three were just links in another post. This banking takeover by Cyprus isn't just effecting the Russian Mob but also the average citizens in Cyprus. If it was just the Russians I don't think the Cyprus citizens wouldn't care much. I have just learned that the Cyprus government, because of the citizen uprising have just voted to abolish the purposed tax.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: We would be foolish to think that it could NEVER happen here. In another 10-20 years... what would make us think it would be impossible? That said, there have been several bills that have been discussed from the more radical on the left... many of them have discussed in the past the possibility of "nationalizing" people's private retirements because the debate in congress had suggested that perhaps they didn't deserve all of it. That said, few of those bills ever actually get proposed (most of it is just talk) and none of them have ever passed. Even with things going the way they are, I think we're at least a decade away from that being a reality. I could be wrong, but I want to say that something like this did in fact happen in our past... I think perhaps as a result of the great depression. I wouldn't even know how to think about searching for this... but in past research, I'm pretty sure I've run into something along the lines of the Democrats proposing and passing some sort of one-time "wealth tax" in order to get the money moving.

That was Executive Order 6102 which outlawed private ownership of gold. All gold was to be sold to the government for $20.67 an ounce. Once the gold was purchased, the value was raised to $35.00 an ounce so some people lost a significant amount of money. Others moved their gold offshore and gained a windfall.

NO WAY !! Obumbles has the Treasury printing money night & day,welfare cheats Obumbles free cell phone recipients,young Social securiity injury fakers & the 100 green ecologist who raked in millions & millions as there ECO ,green, Sun cell companies failed ,NOW all the previous losers ,!!they need big bucks,while our military & military education system is destroyed.
Obumbles Satan say the fall of America & the the lower expectations of the individual
american is the fault of the previous presidential Devil,4 years ago!!
the taxocrats Dems are clinging to higher taxes & laughing at christians ,while killing millions of American dead aborted babies(throw aways)
Cyprus is small potatoes,just another socialist Eurofailure ,
It is only a fantazy dream that the failed Obamanation can grab & steal your bank account & give it to those who refuse to work.
democrats lay awake at night trying to figure out new ways to get your money..

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Did you read the article you posted? Let's assume the rich Russians had stashed their illegal and black money in the US, to the tune of several times the US GDP. Now the US banking system is going belly-up because the banks speculated in high-yield, high-risk Greek debt and lost their bet. Now, would you be OK with the US government (or, worse, ask another country's peoples) bailing out the banks with taxpayer money so that those Russians don't lose a penny of their money and accrued interest? I would like to see this forum if that happened...

Regardless of what that article says, it's a three-tiered approach, everyone is being affected.

It's 6.7% for people under $150,000 (anything under 150,000) and 10% for people from 150,000-500,000, and then above that, it's 15%. I could be off a few thousand, but that's what I remember from watching WSJ Live last night.

I think as a result of the run on the banks (which they weren't expecting, because they're idiots) that they decided what they would do is potentially lower the 6.7% to 5%... and they're also thinking what they may do is wage garnishment.

I'm excited to see what happens on Thursday when they have to reopen the banks again. I think politicians need to understand (and suffer) the ramifications of their actions. Eventually... liberalism will repeat itself enough times that people will be tired of it... I hope.

One point of view: Cyprus will happen here. In the US. To your retirement savings.

quote Well, that’s not exactly true. Cyprus is poised to take up to 15% of the savings being held in Cypriot banks. In the US, Obama is poised to take 100% of your retirement savings. We have a $17 trillion dollar national debt. The interest on the debt is in the range of $250 million per year and by 2020, based on Obama’s spending plans, that will rise to $1 trillion a year. Maybe. Our interest payments are relatively small right now because Ben Bernanke and the Federal Reserve are running the printing presses overtime and they are holding interest rates at a level that is about one-quarter of the historical rates. One day, and that day will most likely be in the next couple of years, rates will go up and the interest payments on our rapidly growing debt will skyrocket. So, how to fix the problem? Where could we find enough money to pay off the debt and still fund all the handouts that progressives insist we have to have? Democrats in Washington have been talking about nationalizing retirement funds, your 401K and your IRA, for several years. Interestingly enough, that would bring in about $19 trillion dollars. It would pay off the debt and have money left over for investment in green energy and a couple of vacations for Michelle. You would get a promise (see Social Security) that you’d get the equivalent of an annuity that would pay for your retirement. That will never happen here! Oh yes it will and the mechanism is in place to make it happen, as reported by Bloomberg. The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is weighing whether it should take on a role in helping Americans manage the $19.4 trillion they have put into retirement savings, a move that would be the agency’s first foray into consumer investments. “That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in in terms of whether and what authority we have,” bureau director Richard Cordray said in an interview. He didn’t provide additional details. Now it’s not like retirement funds aren’t already regulated. The retirement savings business in the U.S. is dominated by a group of companies that handle record-keeping and management of investments in tax-advantaged vehicles like 401(k) plans and individual retirement accounts. The group includes Fidelity Investments, JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), Charles Schwab Corp. (SCHW) and T. Rowe Price Group Inc. (TROW) … The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Labor are the main regulators of U.S. retirement savings vehicles and funds. However, the consumer bureau — established by the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act — sees itself as a potential catalyst for promoting a coherent policy across the government, the people said. Got that? An industry that is already regulated by two different government agencies is about the be attacked by a third. And, the CFPB is a progressive dream agency that would inspire jealousy in Karl Marx. The biggest concern of the CFPB is that seniors will get “scammed” out of their retirement savings and they will be taking it upon themselves to make sure your money is “safe.” At this point I would note that your “safe” Social Security retirement funds are are in the vicinity of $35 trillion short of what a prudently managed retirement fund would be holding. Mr. Ponzi is smiling in his grave. “Well,” you say, “the government is just making sure my funds are safe, that’s not like stealing them.” True enough. But the history of government, and specifically government in the United States, is that they never leave a dollar on the table. Again, look at Social Security. The Congress has been spending Social Security taxes as general revenue for six decades. The “Trust Fund” is nothing more than a bunch of US Treasury Bonds sitting in a vault that will have to be cashed in and paid for from general tax revenue because the payments to Social Security recipients is now larger than in the tax revenue generated for Social Security. All we need is a tipping point. That could be anything from interest rates rising to the Chinese threatening to put a trillion or so of the bonds they’re holding on the open market which would destroy our ability to sell more bonds to finance our own deficit spending. At that point the CFPB declares that your retirement funds are “not safe” and they sweep them from your accounts and trade you an annuity or just a promise that everything will be fine. It’s long past time to think about what you’re doing with your money because the Democrats have been thinking about it for years.

Conspiracy theory? Tin foil hat? Crazy talk?
You only have to ask yourself one question - "how much do you trust your government?"

It truly bothers me that this surprises anybody.

Cyprus already happened here in the US. John Corzine of MF Global raided the customer segregated accounts to pay off margin calls from the big banks (his buddies) when his leveraged euro debt bets went south. Same thing as Cyprus, banks raiding customer accounts. I was with MFG when that went down, I'll never see my full amount, Corzine is still free, not in prison, after bankrupting MFG, guess it pays to be good buddies with the banks.

I've been aware of the government eyeing the 401K accounts too.

[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 03-19-2013).]

Former Senator and Governor of New Jersey John Corzine.
Honest politicians are common as famous entertainers without drug problems.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Former Senator and Governor of New Jersey John Corzine. Honest politicians are common as famous entertainers without drug problems.

You know, for the most part, very true.

Scary part of MF Global and John Corzine is that a precedent has been set, nobody has faced any charges in this, it's open season in the US financial system. Corzine could have gone out of business or cheat, he chose the latter. The funds haven't been raided yet in Cyprus, maybe that's a test baloon being floated, who knows. Governments and banks getting desperate may look at the 401K's, IRA's and savings accounts in a whole different (and greedy) light.

lets see;

1 - US government raided social security surplus from baby boomers (who paid more than enough to cover themselves in retirement) essentially stealing an interest free loan from baby boomers that they never intend to pay back

2 - US runs up 15 trillion in debt (estimated to be 25 trillion at the end of O-Bummers term), but keeps printing money to the tune of 45 billion a month to buy mortgage back securities a.k.a. bad american debt.

3 - eventually debtors are going to become concerned with the massive growing spending and over printing of US currencey and demand higher interest for loans (which the US can not stop borrowing apparently) The answer will be to print more money, buy more debt, and pay off foreign debt with more printed money.

4 - Japan and china as well as other countries are starting to drop the US dollar and for the first time since the USD became fiat are now trading between each other without the USD for exchanges. This same thing is happening in the middle east as more and more countries are dropping the USD as a fiat. this may not sound like much, but is a huge HUGE indicator of doom incoming the USD value.

5 - confidence WILL drop in the USD and markets and people will start to dump our paper and stocks. They will run to other perceived safe havens (gold and silver possibly)

6 - US gov and european union with Great Britain have manipulated Gold and silver to keep it from increasing in value the past few years relative to paper money, to prevent paper money from looking less attractive. US and EU and GB have encouraged selling gold and silver in the form of paper or electronics saying "you just bought this much gold or silver, you do not actually hold the metal but you still own it....... What this does is make staggering 100 to 1 ratio of gold and silver 'said' to exist vs what actually exists.

7 - Like FDR did during the great depression the government will step in when the dollar collapses and take peoples gold and silver in the name of economic good (like FDR Obama will tell you how much you are allowed to own. turn it in for a pittance or face fines and jail time. check US history to confirm this practice), and when they need money to bail out banks as they collapse they will also turn to citizens money as well (by the way, the actual paper money vs electronic money you have in your bank is roughly $4.00 to every $100.00, meaning when bank runs start in the US they will close for 'holiday' very quickly because they just do not have the paper to back up the electronic dollars' if everyone tried to cash out their accounts at the same time, we would all get $4.00 for every $100.00 our accounts say we have....

The recipe the US government and Global banks have made here are not a matter of IF it will happen here, it is a matter of WHEN. Nobody can say for sure 'when' but do the math and you can see the destination of the US economy and USD is collapse here. Why in Gods name ANYONE wants to tie up their money in large amounts in banks and stocks and bonds today is beyond me

Looks like Cyprus decided to just take the money even when the depositors said NO they just did it to the ones with 100,.000.00 Eu or more (the rich). This is starting to look like the United States with the pitting of the rich & poor at each other throats. I expect this to hit the US also in a few years. Like I said Cyprus is approximately 8-10 years ahead of the US in financial troubles.

http://www.glennbeck.com/20..._term=_208545_208555

Cyprus reaches ‘deal’, set to confiscate money from private bank accounts

Well, after over a week of trying to figure out how much money to take of of the bank accounts of private citizens in Cyprus, a deal has finally been reached. Depositors with over $100,000 are seeing their accounts frozen as Cyprus plans to use a percentage of their funds to help pay for a bailout. Glenn reacted to the news on radio this morning.

Reuters explained the latest on the Cyprus bailout:

Backed by euro zone finance ministers, the bailout plan will spare the Mediterranean island a financial catastrophe by winding down the largely state-owned Popular Bank of Cyprus, also known as Laiki, and shifting deposits under 100,000 euros to the Bank of Cyprus to create a “good bank”, leaving problems behind in, effectively, a “bad bank”.

Deposits above 100,000 euros in both banks, which are not guaranteed by the state under EU law, will be frozen and used to resolve Laiki’s debts and recapitalize the Bank of Cyprus, the island’s biggest, through a deposit/equity conversion.

Many analysts fear that Cyprus was not a unique case and that depositors with uninsured bank accounts in other indebted countries could see a “haircut” applied to in future bailouts.

Bill Gross, who runs the Pacific Investment Management Co. in ,California, tweeted “Cyprus haircuts prove just 1 thing: without growth, highly indebted EU countries will eventually suffer a similar fate.”

“Here’s what’s kills me – nobody sees the gulf that they are making. Anybody under $100,000 they’re leaving alone. Well I got news for you, In the grand scheme of things, those who have $25,000 in the bank, at the end of their life they have $25,000 in the bank, those are the ones that need the government at the end of their life. They’re going to need the government because they didn’t save or whatever. So they have that much money in the bank. And then there’s this giant gulf between them and they’re destroying all the wealth between those guys and everybody else up to like the Soroses and Bloombergs.”

“You are re-creating Europe. Overnight we are re-creating it. We are making serfs and lords. That’s it. There’s nobody on the road in between,” Glenn said

Glenn encouraged listeners to find small, local banks that won’t be engaged in the practices that led to the “haircut” penalty in Cyprus.

Over one trillion in student loans, default rate rising and debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
This is going to create many debtor serfs in the future.

Cute pic.. Ohhhh evil corporate profits!! You mean the profits that kick back into oh.. umm investment funds? 401ks? Pensions funds?
You, Me, Unions, etc pumped our earnings into those funds.. but..ya.. too much money there, lets just take it. Those evil "rich" 30-50k earners socking money away for years to have a little something to backup SS. Well they've got 100k socked away, lets take half, we need it for stuff. I mean the Palestiniens needed an extra 500mil, wasn't going to come from thin air.

When will you liberals be happy? When we're all living in 300sq ft apts going to our jobs to make more for the state?
Fiero gone, car gone, here's your bus pass. If you save up you can buy a bicycle.

The problem isn't corporate profits, investment income or pensions. The problem is that the economy is being built on massive debt and that’s a very shaky foundation. That’s all the cartoon says to me.

Maybe we can devalue our currency enough to pay debts with cheap money before anyone catches on. Perhaps we will never have a “Cyprus” moment but we will still all be poorer, except by stealthier means.

Cyprus now wants to take up to 80% of the bank accounts wealth where will it stop. Maybe when they have it all and the recovery still won't work.

Cyprus now wants to take 80%

http://www.glennbeck.com/20..._term=_209898_209910

Earl

quote Originally posted by jetman: I've been aware of the government eyeing the 401K accounts too.

I don't have sources but i have heard the same.

quote Originally posted by aqua-man: Cyprus now wants to take 80% Earl

If this isn't cause for a revolution over there, i don't know what is. I don't know a single person there, but i do feel bad for them and what is going to happen to them.

quote Originally posted by FieroMonkey: lets see; 1 - US government raided social security surplus from baby boomers (who paid more than enough to cover themselves in retirement) essentially stealing an interest free loan from baby boomers that they never intend to pay back 2 - US runs up 15 trillion in debt (estimated to be 25 trillion at the end of O-Bummers term), but keeps printing money to the tune of 45 billion a month to buy mortgage back securities a.k.a. bad american debt. 3 - eventually debtors are going to become concerned with the massive growing spending and over printing of US currencey and demand higher interest for loans (which the US can not stop borrowing apparently) The answer will be to print more money, buy more debt, and pay off foreign debt with more printed money. 4 - Japan and china as well as other countries are starting to drop the US dollar and for the first time since the USD became fiat are now trading between each other without the USD for exchanges. This same thing is happening in the middle east as more and more countries are dropping the USD as a fiat. this may not sound like much, but is a huge HUGE indicator of doom incoming the USD value. 5 - confidence WILL drop in the USD and markets and people will start to dump our paper and stocks. They will run to other perceived safe havens (gold and silver possibly) 6 - US gov and european union with Great Britain have manipulated Gold and silver to keep it from increasing in value the past few years relative to paper money, to prevent paper money from looking less attractive. US and EU and GB have encouraged selling gold and silver in the form of paper or electronics saying "you just bought this much gold or silver, you do not actually hold the metal but you still own it....... What this does is make staggering 100 to 1 ratio of gold and silver 'said' to exist vs what actually exists. 7 - Like FDR did during the great depression the government will step in when the dollar collapses and take peoples gold and silver in the name of economic good (like FDR Obama will tell you how much you are allowed to own. turn it in for a pittance or face fines and jail time. check US history to confirm this practice), and when they need money to bail out banks as they collapse they will also turn to citizens money as well (by the way, the actual paper money vs electronic money you have in your bank is roughly $4.00 to every $100.00, meaning when bank runs start in the US they will close for 'holiday' very quickly because they just do not have the paper to back up the electronic dollars' if everyone tried to cash out their accounts at the same time, we would all get $4.00 for every $100.00 our accounts say we have.... The recipe the US government and Global banks have made here are not a matter of IF it will happen here, it is a matter of WHEN. Nobody can say for sure 'when' but do the math and you can see the destination of the US economy and USD is collapse here. Why in Gods name ANYONE wants to tie up their money in large amounts in banks and stocks and bonds today is beyond me

THAT'S A LIE!!!
The Fed is printing $85 Billion a month, not $45 Billion.

Seriously, though, that whole end of the world due to the sequester Obama was talking about - $85 Billion "reduction in the increase of spending" OVER 10 YEARS is how much the Fed is adding to the economy EVERY MONTH.

The Fed stimulus will continue until the economy collapses. The economy is propped up by the stimulus. If the stimulus stops or they start selling those securities, the economy will tank. If the stimulus continues indefinitely, the economy will tank. Make whatever money you can now. You're going to need it.


Start a garden.

So why pay taxes if they can just print money?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Seriously, though, that whole end of the world due to the sequester Obama was talking about - $85 Billion "reduction in the increase of spending" OVER 10 YEARS is how much the Fed is adding to the economy EVERY MONTH.

it was just smoke and mirrors to play politics. Business as usual. I know i didn't really give it a 2nd thought.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Start a garden.

Until they make that illegal. Or at least highly regulated.

quote Originally posted by jetman: So why pay taxes if they can just print money?

No need to print it anymore, just takes a few strokes on a keyboard with no real limit.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Until they make that illegal. Or at least highly regulated.

Bans on certain species of plants/seeds, building permits for large green houses, etc.

Too late.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Former Senator and Governor of New Jersey John Corzine. Honest politicians are common as famous entertainers without drug problems.

That might be true... but I think we HAVE had a lot of honest politicians in the past. I truly believe that Ronald Reagan was honest, and I also think that Jimmy Carter was honest. Dishonest to me, is willingly and purposely fooling the public on something. That's something that's been pretty consistent in this administration, as well as during the last administration to much extent also. I don't like Carter, but he didn't purposely lie to us, nor did Reagan. They both had their classified operations that they ordered, but nothing that they willfully lied to us about.

quote Originally posted by Uaana: Cute pic.. Ohhhh evil corporate profits!! You mean the profits that kick back into oh.. umm investment funds? 401ks? Pensions funds? You, Me, Unions, etc pumped our earnings into those funds.. but..ya.. too much money there, lets just take it. Those evil "rich" 30-50k earners socking money away for years to have a little something to backup SS. Well they've got 100k socked away, lets take half, we need it for stuff. I mean the Palestiniens needed an extra 500mil, wasn't going to come from thin air. When will you liberals be happy? When we're all living in 300sq ft apts going to our jobs to make more for the state? Fiero gone, car gone, here's your bus pass. If you save up you can buy a bicycle.

Yeah, I don't really get that either... I mean, it would be different if companies are purposely creating a monopoly for staples like food, gas, energy, medicine, etc... but none of that is the case. Anything else that you want or need... there's plenty of competition, or it's something that the consumer has made a decision that he/she wants to buy. Yeah, I don't understand why people have a problem with corporate profits.

Quite honestly, we can blame the whole concept of corporate profits on Democrats anyway. Most businesses were family run, and they were passed down through the generations. When the Estate Tax was re-instituted during the FDR administration, it started a transition from family business dynasties to the Dutch-centric stock/share/corporation structure with shareholders and a board of directors. Regardless... companies provide jobs, and they pay the bills that allow government to operate... doesn't get much more simple than that. I don't see why people have such a big problem with corporations making money... that's WHY they exist. It's not like anyone goes into business dreaming of the possibility of producing iPhones for everyone in America at-cost, so that the individual can remain working out of his mom's garage.


As far as your utopia... you pretty much nailed it. Democrats... at least the voters, vote with their emotions. Their decisions are very emotionally driven. Democrats dream / believe in a world where everyone is equal, everyone does things for the betterment of society, and people do things not for profit, but for the betterment of man-kind. They also believe in a world where we don't have money, but instead do things in exchange for services or knowledge. They also believe in a society where everyone loves each-other and no one is ever offended. It's a society that would make Boonie blush.

The problem is, nothing the Democrats ever do actually move us towards this goal, and they're too blinded by their utopic dream to realize that they're simply being used as pawns to further a more aristocratic / serf type of society... the very thing they believe that they're preventing.

We are the most powerful country in the world, and the second most economically powerful country in the world is China. Both of us got to where we are because of capitalism, not socialism... and people don't seem to understand that. The more Europe has gone down the road towards socialism, the less productive and the more increasingly irrelevant they become. I mean, this should be so unbelievably obvious to everyone...???

The entire housing crisis was as a result of government intervention to try to get poor people into homes by giving them loans they couldn't afford.

People need to seriously wake-up...

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Yeah, I don't really get that either... I mean, it would be different if companies are purposely creating a monopoly for staples like food, gas, energy, medicine, etc... but none of that is the case. Anything else that you want or need... there's plenty of competition, or it's something that the consumer has made a decision that he/she wants to buy. Yeah, I don't understand why people have a problem with corporate profits.

quote Originally posted by NoMoreRicers:

I've seen this video before, and I've also watched / listened to Schiff since he started warning us about the housing bust way back in the mid 2000s. Still, I watched the video again, and I'm just as shocked today as I was months ago when I first saw it. I want to think that maybe people don't realize exactly how things work. I mean... people would essentially have NOTHING... if corporations didn't get profits from what they did. Obviously, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know...

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I've seen this video before, and I've also watched / listened to Schiff since he started warning us about the housing bust way back in the mid 2000s. Still, I watched the video again, and I'm just as shocked today as I was months ago when I first saw it. I want to think that maybe people don't realize exactly how things work. I mean... people would essentially have NOTHING... if corporations didn't get profits from what they did. Obviously, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know...

Corporations are simply the pooling of capital.

I believe Limited Liability Corporations are legitimate when they have made a contract with their creditors that says their liability is limited to only capital specifically invested in the corporation.

However, Corporations should not be able to replicate the limit on liabilities arising non-contractually, such as liability in tort for environmental disasters or personal injury, which corporations currently enjoy.

There is a world war going right now, and the battle ground is currencies. West against the east/russia and the victory is; Who can devalue their own currency the most! China wants theirs low to continue to monopolize the exports market, and the US wants to devalue the Dollar so that we can pay off the massive national debt with worthless currency that we have printed mountains of as well as not feel the sting of providing social security to seniors who wont be able to buy anything with massive inflation.

The US is doing a great job of destroying confidence in the Dollar, but the Euro, China and Japan are all doing a good job manipulating their own to keep pace, so it appears that none of the currencies are dropping all that much.

On top of that they are suppressing the values of precious metals to keep us all fixated and focused on dollars and stocks so that we avoid anything that might preserve our wealth should currencies and markets collapse. There is a reason that we are not allowed to bring gold/silver into India lately and that is because India and many other countries not tied to the US/EU markets have precious metal values much higher to reflect the actual value and supply/demand that is really happening with gold/silver.

The US WANTS the economy to collapse, for debt reasons and for increasing export desirability from the US, not to mention to mention the central banks swooping down to rescue everyone from their mortgages they can't pay for any more. When the banks gobble up all the assets for next to nothing, they will agree on a new world currency and allow the economy to recover, thus allowing all their ill gotten assets to increase in value. Central banks will be even more titanic than they already are.

quote Originally posted by FieroMonkey: 6 - US gov and european union with Great Britain have manipulated Gold and silver to keep it from increasing in value the past few years relative to paper money, to prevent paper money from looking less attractive. US and EU and GB have encouraged selling gold and silver in the form of paper or electronics saying "you just bought this much gold or silver, you do not actually hold the metal but you still own it....... What this does is make staggering 100 to 1 ratio of gold and silver 'said' to exist vs what actually exists.

Effectively, wouldn't that be creating a secondary currency based on a gold standard? You are now trading one form of currency for another that says you are entitled to x amount of gold. In theory, those pieces of paper should trade at a 1:1 ratio, but as you allude to...you seriously think no one is thinking, "well, we could do a 1:1 ratio, or we could do a 1:2 or 3 ratio and make a haul". And in theory, you could trade those entitlement forms for goods and services.

I personally think we are witnessing the beginning of the end in terms of fiat currency. Not to get a tin foil hat here, but ultimately, in a system where the money is obviously being directed "up" and it gets increasingly difficult to be going up the chain, you'll hit a critical mass of people that stop trying.

Stuff like Cyprus, now digging into the bank accounts of their own citizens(and others) when desperate enough, should at this point, alarm any Eurozone member population that it could be them thats next(Spain, Greece, Ireland) and others in short order. And if that in turn, already sparking a conversation on the subject here, and in other areas thinking, "could that be us?". Eventually, people will realize that the answer to solving the income inequalities will be to render that paper money as just what it is...meaningless paper.

People will only fight in a system that they can't win for so long.

This whole thread explored many many ideas, opinions and possable forcasts for the future.
All very interesting.
I even felt smarter after reading it.

As for the future of this country, the next 20 years are going to be very interesting.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: As for the future of this country, the next 20 years are going to be very interesting.

As was the last 20.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: As was the last 20.

I thought so, too.
I actually feel very privileged to have seen it.
Very interesting times indeed.

quote Originally posted by Gridlock: Effectively, wouldn't that be creating a secondary currency based on a gold standard? You are now trading one form of currency for another that says you are entitled to x amount of gold. In theory, those pieces of paper should trade at a 1:1 ratio, but as you allude to...you seriously think no one is thinking, "well, we could do a 1:1 ratio, or we could do a 1:2 or 3 ratio and make a haul". And in theory, you could trade those entitlement forms for goods and services. I personally think we are witnessing the beginning of the end in terms of fiat currency. Not to get a tin foil hat here, but ultimately, in a system where the money is obviously being directed "up" and it gets increasingly difficult to be going up the chain, you'll hit a critical mass of people that stop trying. Stuff like Cyprus, now digging into the bank accounts of their own citizens(and others) when desperate enough, should at this point, alarm any Eurozone member population that it could be them thats next(Spain, Greece, Ireland) and others in short order. And if that in turn, already sparking a conversation on the subject here, and in other areas thinking, "could that be us?". Eventually, people will realize that the answer to solving the income inequalities will be to render that paper money as just what it is...meaningless paper. People will only fight in a system that they can't win for so long.

As Voltaire said hundreds of years ago, “Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value – zero.” The same goes for any fiat currency whether it is actually paper or not.

Hmm.