http://townhall.com/tipshee...ed_say_they_may_quit

quote The Doctor Patient Medical Association has released a new survey of about 700 doctors, and the results are bleak. Scary bleak. Among other dismal figures, Doctors' Attitudes on the Future of Medicine: What’s Wrong, Who’s to Blame, and What Will Fix It found that 83% of respondents are contemplating leaving the industry if Obamacare is fully implemented, owing to its disastrous projected consequences. Indeed, they openly blame the healthcare law for their industry's woes: KEY FINDINGS 90% say the medical system is on the WRONG TRACK 83% say they are thinking about QUITTING 61% say the system challenges their ETHICS 85% say the patient-physician relationship is in a TAILSPIN 65% say GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT is most to blame for current problems 72% say individual insurance mandate will NOT result in improved access care 49% say they will STOP accepting Medicaid patients 74% say they will STOP ACCEPTING Medicare patients, or leave Medicare completely 52% say they would rather treat some Medicaid/Medicare patient for FREE 57% give the AMA a FAILING GRADE representing them 1 out of 3 doctors is HESITANT to voice their opinion 2 out of 3 say they are JUST SQUEAKING BY OR IN THE RED financially 95% say private practice is losing out to CORPORATE MEDICINE 80% say DOCTORS/MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS are most likely to help solve things 70% say REDUCING GOVERNMENT would be single best fix. If this isn't an airtight argument for the repeal of Obamacare, nothing is. When the people providing the actual healthcare are thinking of getting out of the game, the system is clearly broken. Here's hoping the Supreme Court strikes down Obamacare this month.

And.....what are the odds that 100% of the Doctors are Rpublicans? Not saying anything against them.....but who would expect them to say anything else? It really isn't anything astonishing is it?

Ya, i bet this is skewed to show what they want to show ( typical survey ) and they said 'may', not 'will'. I may jump off a bridge if he is reelected, but doesn't mean that the chances are really high either....

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: And.....what are the odds that 100% of the Doctors are Rpublicans? Not saying anything against them.....but who would expect them to say anything else? It really isn't anything astonishing is it?

It isn't suprising - to anyone except anybody who supported ObamaCare.
The law provides for 16,000 new IRS agents and not a single new physician.
Opponents of the law were saying this would happen the entire time and the supporters stuck their fingers in their ears and cried "Racist!"

Would it be any better or worse if the majority of the doctors are Republicans or Democrats?

What? They do not want to have their wages frozen and enforced at gun point by a bloated federal bureaucracy? Seriously? I'm shocked I tell you...SHOCKED! WHO could have foreseen this!?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It isn't suprising - to anyone except anybody who supported ObamaCare.

I very much doubt it is surprising to them either...probably LESS so

quote Would it be any better or worse if the majority of the doctors are Republicans or Democrats?

Depends upon one's Political viewpoint. F88 . IF the majority of Doctors WERE Democrats...I doubt this would have been published..The report would have been MORE unexpected than this . And if this was the brainchild of the GOP, I doubt they would be hinting they MIGHT quit their Jobs if it went through. Although I appreciate that just isn't a possibility

Edit to add:To be honest, I suspect this is a 'fear' tactic, frightening people into believing there would be no doctors or hospitals at ALL if it went ahead.
I can quite understand the Doctors' point of view, and I don't doubt that this could bankrupt many...but don't blame the system for that...blame the INsurance Companies who cream off so much of any profit available to Doctors. They have my total sympathy.

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 06-15-2012).]

quote IF the majority of Doctors WERE Democrats...I doubt this would have been published.

And you would be right, the media would not publish any stories that are detrimental to the DemocRATS.

Even with Obamacare, it woud be foolish for a doctor to quit. They would make much less money doing something else. The extremely high income potential is why so many people are trying to get into the medical profession.

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: Even with Obamacare, it woud be foolish for a doctor to quit. They would make much less money doing something else. The extremely high income potential is why so many people are trying to get into the medical profession.

My 42YO Daughter-in-law, who is a fantastic surgeon is out, has nothing to do with the financial aspect.
She started socking money away right after it passed.

It has to do with how "F"ed up the working conditions will be.

I think about half will leave if it is upheld.
But there will be plenty of third world docs with shady credentials to cover the crisis.

Welcome to Government Care!

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 06-15-2012).]

this happened in Germany in the 20' and early 30's when the intelligent people left as they saw what was coming. They didn't stop making money, they just changed which country they lived in. Same here, people with the brains and money will leave till the government starts restricting travel, but that can never happen, can it?

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: Even with Obamacare, it woud be foolish for a doctor to quit. They would make much less money doing something else. The extremely high income potential is why so many people are trying to get into the medical profession.

I would wager the vast majority of those that "quit" will retire rather than do something else.

You reckon most of the 83% are of, or near retirement age, F88? And, if so many fear they will be bankrupted by the 'Plan', how will they afford to live in 'the style to which they have become accustomed?' (AGAIN!! NOT saying they don't merit a good lifestyle!!..mostly they deserve MORE,IMHO). And I doubt they will find anywhere else that will pay them a commenserate salary outside the USA

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: You reckon most of the 83% are of, or near retirement age, F88? And, if so many fear they will be bankrupted by the 'Plan', how will they afford to live in 'the style to which they have become accustomed?' (AGAIN!! NOT saying they don't merit a good lifestyle!!..mostly they deserve MORE,IMHO). And I doubt they will find anywhere else that will pay them a commenserate salary outside the USA

I didn't say that. I don't know how Spain's system works, but in the U.S. you can retire before "retirement age" if you have the resources.
I doubt many physicians live paycheck to paycheck.

Ah!! Getcha! No, we cannot draw either private OR state pension before we reach official retirement age We can stop working, but we can't claim pensions, and we also have to continue making tax and insurance payments as if we were still working.
In which case, if that is how it Works over there...then good for them. Retire. I am willing to bet there are quite a lot of budding younger Doctors who would be eager to jump into their shoes!

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 06-15-2012).]

I may win the lottery tomorrow.

What? Nick--Are you saying, that if you invest in your own private retirement fund, that you can't quit work and draw from it before the "official" retirement age?
That's so screwed up I can't put it into words.

I seriously doubt that. What else are they going to do?

golf?

quote Originally posted by crashyoung: this happened in Germany in the 20' and early 30's when the intelligent people left as they saw what was coming. They didn't stop making money, they just changed which country they lived in. Same here, people with the brains and money will leave till the government starts restricting travel, but that can never happen, can it?

Germany throughout the 1920's experienced a low-level civil war between communist and fascist street gangs, compounded by the economic catastrophe of the great depression from 1929 onwards. Yes, when things go bad, rich people and/or those that have transferable and marketable skills often leave while the rest is stuck. The medical profession usually doesn't have transferable skills nowadays (due to license requirements). What is your point here other than randomly invoking the rise of fascism?

quote Originally posted by partfiero: My 42YO Daughter-in-law, who is a fantastic surgeon is out, has nothing to do with the financial aspect. She started socking money away right after it passed. It has to do with how "F"ed up the working conditions will be. I think about half will leave if it is upheld. But there will be plenty of third world docs with shady credentials to cover the crisis. Welcome to Government Care!

We went thru this in Ontario in the mid-90's...we always have been semi-socialized medicine, but in the 90's the goobyment walked in, imposed pay caps and mandated fee limits that used to be unregulated, as well as trying to micro-manage and second-guess the doctors judgement calls as to best course of action, procedures, ect and a bunch of other stuff...and it resulted in about 1/3 of our docs either quitting, retiring or moving out of Ontario to continue to practice....and 15 years later, about 1/4 of the population or so here STILL doesn't have a family doctor.

The other side of the coin--and you guys will learn about it with Obamacare...is things like a minor sprain or a sneeze/sniffle or a paper-cut or some other boo-boo that is normally either ignored or self-treated for under 5-bucks will become cause for a multi-thousand-dollar emergency-room visit. My ex is one of "those" and figures she paid for it via taxes, so why should she go to the drugstore and pay for band-aids or tylenol or buckleys when the hospital emerg department will give it to her for free.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: My ex is one of "those" and figures she paid for it via taxes, so why should she go to the drugstore and pay for band-aids or tylenol or buckleys when the hospital emerg department will give it to her for free.

If this is the kind of people you have associated with in the past, your judgement and therefore your opinion cannot be trusted.

(not serious, just using courtroom and political smear tactics)

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: Even with Obamacare, it woud be foolish for a doctor to quit. They would make much less money doing something else. The extremely high income potential is why so many people are trying to get into the medical profession.

Yeah, and those filthy Irish Coal Miners will never strike no matter how much we beat, rob, and steal from them. - Someone circa 1900

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: There's much more to this than the snippet of information that Avengador posted and the title of the thread is patently misleading (surprised, anyone?). For those who care to read on: http://www.dpmafoundation.o...des-on-medicine.html IMO, the way this survey was designed and conducted is pretty questionable as it doesn't seem to be statistically representative at all.

Nope, no surprise, but it sounds SO doggone good and tantalizing doesn't it?

Now I will check in on the Nibiru thread because there is also a tiny little grain of microscopic truth in that one too.--and it's a LOT more entertaining.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: If this is the kind of people you have associated with in the past, your judgement and therefore your opinion cannot be trusted.

Well then, , let's just forget those type of people exist ?

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: I am willing to bet there are quite a lot of budding younger Doctors who would be eager to jump into their shoes!

Med schools here in the US still have more applicants than they have room for. Medical jobs are one the fastest growing segments here in the country.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Yeah, and those filthy Irish Coal Miners will never strike no matter how much we beat, rob, and steal from them. - Someone circa 1900

Perfect analogy right there.

It will be interesting to see how the progressives like the taste of Neptune's #@$! sandwich when this whole thing is axed by the Supreme court later this month.

Maybe after the next election cycle we will be only arguing the points claimed by the two viable parties,,,,,, the republicans and the libertarians won’t that be awesome.

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: Med schools here in the US still have more applicants than they have room for. Medical jobs are one the fastest growing segments here in the country.

"Medical jobs" covers a LOT.
frontal lobe has posted in other threads about the changing landscape of the medical profession and the changes aren't all rosy.
You see a lot more young doctors becoming specialists and not going into general practice.
More and more physicians are refusing new Medicare patients because they lose money on them. Not "make less money" - they "lose money."

The medical profession is expanding rapidly, but that doesn't equate to a growth of doctors across the board.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...ML/090647-2.html#p53

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: ... As for retiring early, I am 55 years old and have been in general internal medicine practice, so one of the lower paid doctors. But I've been wise. I can retire tomorrow. If I retire tomorrow, society will miss out on the 15 more years I could probably do, and the 25 plus years of experience I have. I know at least 10 other of my colleagues that could do the same thing. ...

Search the forum for "frontal lobe obamacare" and read some insight from an experienced physician who has first hand knowledge. Sure, it's just one point of view, but it's an informed and educated point of view. I don't think anyone would accuse frontal lobe of buying into political rhetoric or saying something just for political reasons. IMO, his posts have always been carefully thought out and he's always been open minded to differing points of view.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Perfect analogy right there.

Thank you. People forget that if you want the truth, follow the money/power. Obama and his liberal friends are the new Robber Barrons. It does not matter whether it is a union that once served a productive purpose and is now a corrupt shell of it's former self dedicated to the prolonging of its existence for the benefit of its own management, the NAACP whose very name is offensive let alone its modern purpose, a business, a gang or a government. When power gets concentrated ANYWHERE...its all bad. Power to the people. I make the rules in my country and the minute my government forgets that is the minute I grab my guns and religion and tell the "intellectual elite" that knows better than I (despite having lower grades and IQ) what is best for me to go to hell.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Thank you.

Sorry, let me rephrase that for you, it seems it wasn't clear:

[sarcasm] Perfect analogy right there.[/sarcasm]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Search the forum for "frontal lobe obamacare" and read some insight from an experienced physician who has first hand knowledge. Sure, it's just one point of view, but it's an informed and educated point of view. I don't think anyone would accuse frontal lobe of buying into political rhetoric or saying something just for political reasons. IMO, his posts have always been carefully thought out and he's always been open minded to differing points of view.

Yup, and the amazing thing is, there were a bunch of liberals on here who would DISAGREE with him, as if they knew better!

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: If this is the kind of people you have associated with in the past, your judgement and therefore your opinion cannot be trusted. (not serious, just using courtroom and political smear tactics)

You're kidding right? I worked EMS for 6 yrs.
For every Real call we got there were at least 2 freebies.

That's not politics, that's not economics. That's reality. Do you know that a 1mi drive to the hospital costs $450?? We did nothing.. Just a ride to the hospital..

I just skimmed this thread.
But based on the list in the original post, I'm inclined to believe most of it.

My doctor retired less than a year ago. Sent an email to all of his patients, basically saying "At the end of the month, I'm outta here". I have to believe that he would still be practicing were it not for the impending spectre of Obamacare.

More power to him.

Even if none of the 83% of doctors quit, they would still have 30 million more patients with no money.

quote Originally posted by Uaana: You're kidding right?

I was. I thought that it was over the top enough to be obvious.

Then that means there would 83% more jobs created.....

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Great that he could afford to do that just because he doesn't like a change in the law. Tells you something.

Basically the same reason I quit aviation as a career in the aftermath of 9-11....I didnt like the changes in the laws. Contrary to what the obama-ites (and other assorted socialist-marxist-types) seem to think, just because an individual HAS the professional skills, DOES NOT make them a slave or negate their legal rights, and they DO NOT "owe" society those skills--which is the main reason I have quit fixing things as a career. Fly it yerselves, fix it yerselves, fix yerselves yerselves. If 9 hours a day of professional repair service isnt enough and ya's cant frack off and leave me alone at 5pm....lets see how ya's like 0 hours a day of service. I got no problem earning a living doing something else. Same as the retired/ quit doctors.

Will the "new" Doctors of tomorrow (not born yet) see this honorable occcupation as "a fine job" with "nice hours" and "good pay"?
And not just a hippocratic "gold mine"?

The old way has always hated the new way.